Callabinho Posted 22 August 2011 Posted 22 August 2011 He won't get into double figures this season, and he's been in awful form since the last 3 months of last season. Either theres a problem or he's been found out. He is the first player other teams will look at! And it's true sit a man in him and he becomes very quiet! Kings all round midfield play can be questioned but he is still a top player, he just needs to learn how to overcome his marker in a game! Don't forget he is still young.
RumbleFox Posted 22 August 2011 Posted 22 August 2011 Yes, I'd accept the £3million. It's time Kingy left if only to show how good he would be in a team playing properly and with a consistent sense of direction. I'll ignore the lunacy of preferring people who hardly score any goals to someone who consistly scores double figures and adds a fair share of assists as well. But it's not just that is it. Get the passes stats and the shooting stats and the "invisible" King is top or thereabouts. King has always been a ghostly player even at his best and far better that that the clumsiness of people who's "getting stuck in" gave away our game against Bristol City, got Vassell sent off at Coventry thus costing the side considerable balance and is forever costing us dangerous free kicks in dangerous places. King doesn't really belong here. As I mentioned last week, he belongs in a properly organised fast-passing team with proper options and footballing strikers like Yakubu and others who can and will play one-twos. We want to play like that are always too scared to do it when were winning. Kings wants to be where they're committed to attacking and scoring goals We've actually offered far more in attack since King's been back and in the first half against Nottingham actually looked like a potentially decent team. Wellens totally disappeared second half against Forest - presumably because he hadn't got the legs any more w hile King found himself in a team that suddenly didn't want to pass and move but simply wanted to hold what they'd got. But I waste my breath. Yes, I'd take £3m and believe that the lad would be just as effective in the Premiership where he fast-passing game and deft movement would be more appreciated and would benefit still further from better and more pacey off-the-ball runners around him. We are still a work in progress where pace, movement, attacking full-backs and effective partnerships are concerned - all things that King would feed off. This. Easily one of our best players and even on Saturday he made loads of smart, short, very quick little passes which you do not always notice BECAUSE THEY ALWAYS COME OFF. That is the point. He does the little simple things very well and also very quietly. You do not notice him BECAUSE HE IS EFFECTIVE and not the other way around. We would be very silly billies to sell him. He is quality and his attitude has always been fantastic. Don't listen to these moonthrumpers Kingy, I love you!!! X
RumbleFox Posted 22 August 2011 Posted 22 August 2011 Sven just doesn't know how to use him. It's the same scenario as Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney et all when he coached England. No idea how to get the best out of his players. What good is a pack of wolves led by a sheep? Do you have a mental illness? This is not a wind up, I am genuinely interested. I studied cognitive science and am interested in all areas of cognitive functionality? Thanks. X
Whitlock 7 Posted 22 August 2011 Posted 22 August 2011 When he bags some goals everyone will be ass licking him, I like king, and will allways be a threat when he does them late runs into the box
marbelladave Posted 22 August 2011 Posted 22 August 2011 When he bags some goals everyone will be ass licking him, I like king, and will allways be a threat when he does them late runs into the box But at the moment he is not making "them late runs into the box" (sic) because he is playing so far forward, that is the problem...... He is not a striker, he does not hold the ball up, can not play with his back to goal and when he is played in he is stationary and usually well marked as he is already well forward. He has not been "found out" as some suggest, he is actually playing into the opposition's hands by getting forward nice and early so that the defenders can pick him up and mark him out of the game. He needs to play a much deeper role, if we play the 'diamond' he needs to be the player at the base of it with a genuine creative player at the point.
Whitlock 7 Posted 22 August 2011 Posted 22 August 2011 But at the moment he is not making "them late runs into the box" (sic) because he is playing so far forward, that is the problem...... He is not a striker, he does not hold the ball up, can not play with his back to goal and when he is played in he is stationary and usually well marked as he is already well forward. He has not been "found out" as some suggest, he is actually playing into the opposition's hands by getting forward nice and early so that the defenders can pick him up and mark him out of the game. He needs to play a much deeper role, if we play the 'diamond' he needs to be the player at the base of it with a genuine creative player at the point. I totally agree, but is this kings fault? Or is he being told to play so high up to support nugent, I believe if you let king play almost a free role in midfield and when we do get the ball wide, then he can make them legendary late runs
marbelladave Posted 22 August 2011 Posted 22 August 2011 I totally agree, but is this kings fault? Or is he being told to play so high up to support nugent, I believe if you let king play almost a free role in midfield and when we do get the ball wide, then he can make them legendary late runs I certainly do not think it is King's fault, he is playing where he is told to play. His best all round season was 2009/10 under NFP. Despite NFP's unrelentingly conservative approach he scored 10 goals playing virtually as a defensive midfielder. He was able to contribute hugely both defensively in our area and in attack. He contibuted a lot of goals last season albight in a much more attacking side but we missed his defensive contribution. He is continuing to play the advanced roll and it is hopelessly wrong and in my view one of the key reasons we are failing to perform.
Guest Col city fan Posted 22 August 2011 Posted 22 August 2011 But at the moment he is not making "them late runs into the box" (sic) because he is playing so far forward, that is the problem...... He is not a striker, he does not hold the ball up, can not play with his back to goal and when he is played in he is stationary and usually well marked as he is already well forward. He has not been "found out" as some suggest, he is actually playing into the opposition's hands by getting forward nice and early so that the defenders can pick him up and mark him out of the game. He needs to play a much deeper role, if we play the 'diamond' he needs to be the player at the base of it with a genuine creative player at the point. So dave you are basically saying that Sven is playing king in the wrong position? players being played in the wrong positions seems to be a common opinion recently Danns, king, even waghorn... Is it not the job of a manager to get his players playing in the role that he wants them to? Sven must see something in king playing a more advanced role.. And we must trust his judgement. I personally agree with you that king needs a more free role, in a more central position. But I'm not the manager. If Sven wants king further forward let's just see what happens. Or are you not a fan of Sven? But at the moment he is not making "them late runs into the box" (sic) because he is playing so far forward, that is the problem...... He is not a striker, he does not hold the ball up, can not play with his back to goal and when he is played in he is stationary and usually well marked as he is already well forward. He has not been "found out" as some suggest, he is actually playing into the opposition's hands by getting forward nice and early so that the defenders can pick him up and mark him out of the game. He needs to play a much deeper role, if we play the 'diamond' he needs to be the player at the base of it with a genuine creative player at the point. So dave you are basically saying that Sven is playing king in the wrong position? players being played in the wrong positions seems to be a common opinion recently Danns, king, even waghorn... Is it not the job of a manager to get his players playing in the role that he wants them to? Sven must see something in king playing a more advanced role.. And we must trust his judgement. I personally agree with you that king needs a more free role, in a more central position. But I'm not the manager. If Sven wants king further forward let's just see what happens. Or are you not a fan of Sven?
Monk Posted 22 August 2011 Posted 22 August 2011 We all know that king is not an attacking mid WTF? He was our top scorer last season!
marbelladave Posted 22 August 2011 Posted 22 August 2011 So dave you are basically saying that Sven is playing king in the wrong position? players being played in the wrong positions seems to be a common opinion recently Danns, king, even waghorn... Is it not the job of a manager to get his players playing in the role that he wants them to? Sven must see something in king playing a more advanced role.. And we must trust his judgement. I personally agree with you that king needs a more free role, in a more central position. But I'm not the manager. If Sven wants king further forward let's just see what happens. Or are you not a fan of Sven? Like many fans I think Sven is being seduced by King's excellent goalscoring record. But for me playing him as the attacking mid is actually fooking us up in two separate ways - Firstly we actually get less out of King, essentially because the further forward he is, the easier he is to mark, as he is no longer arriving late and at pace, plus we miss his excellent defensive play in and around our box. And secondly, by paying him in this role, we deny our forward players of a 'proper' playmaker able to play them in around the box or disrupt a set defence by driving at them with the ball at his feet. Looking at our first half display on saturday, both Danns and Fernandez looked better suited to the primary attacking midfield role. I like Sven a lot, but I am not blind to his weakness, which I believe is in the area of matchday setup and tactics. I have said elsewhere, and on a number of occasions, that the best signing we could make at this time is a proper 1st team coach, a team manager in all but name, allowing Sven to 'set the tone', bring in the right players and do all those 'big picture' duties that he is clearly so good at. This has the added advantage that we can get rid of Stowell and leave Faz to look after fitness issues.
Kitchandro Posted 22 August 2011 Posted 22 August 2011 But at the moment he is not making "them late runs into the box" (sic) because he is playing so far forward, that is the problem...... He is not a striker, he does not hold the ball up, can not play with his back to goal and when he is played in he is stationary and usually well marked as he is already well forward. He has not been "found out" as some suggest, he is actually playing into the opposition's hands by getting forward nice and early so that the defenders can pick him up and mark him out of the game. He needs to play a much deeper role, if we play the 'diamond' he needs to be the player at the base of it with a genuine creative player at the point. Doesn't he need to grow up and develop his game though? It's no good saying he should play deep and not play a creative part and just get in the box late and score. We have a very talented Michael Johnson on the bench who can get goals and be creative. I disagree about King being suited to playing deep, he is not a good defensive player. He's poor at marking, doesn't close down or chase quick enough and is an average tackler. I am yet to see him construct any real attacks with his vision and passing either, something Wellens is very good at. Now I'm not one who wants rid of King, he is a very talented player and I wouldn't accept less than £6m. But he needs to grow up and be more involved in general team play, or Johnson should replace him, when fit. He IS an attacking midfielder, he's just not a complete one yet. On some occassions last season he did his best stuff when in between the 2 banks of 4. When we give him the ball in space in front of the defence and he starts running at them, they are terrified of him. Sadly his movement isn't good enough and as a team the same, so we do not often create enough space for our forward players. 3 of the 4 midfielders had good performances on Staurday, King simply went missing. So at the moment, I wouldn't be reshuffling our midfield just to accomodate his goalscoring, I'd simply replace him with someone who can play in that forward role with confidence, someone who will link up the strikers, dribble and has a shot on them as well. That is, unless Kingy can step up to the plate and fulfill his potential by improving his game.
Guest Col city fan Posted 22 August 2011 Posted 22 August 2011 Doesn't he need to grow up and develop his game though? It's no good saying he should play deep and not play a creative part and just get in the box late and score. We have a very talented Michael Johnson on the bench who can get goals and be creative. I disagree about King being suited to playing deep, he is not a good defensive player. He's poor at marking, doesn't close down or chase quick enough and is an average tackler. I am yet to see him construct any real attacks with his vision and passing either, something Wellens is very good at. Now I'm not one who wants rid of King, he is a very talented player and I wouldn't accept less than £6m. But he needs to grow up and be more involved in general team play, or Johnson should replace him, when fit. He IS an attacking midfielder, he's just not a complete one yet. On some occassions last season he did his best stuff when in between the 2 banks of 4. When we give him the ball in space in front of the defence and he starts running at them, they are terrified of him. Sadly his movement isn't good enough and as a team the same, so we do not often create enough space for our forward players. 3 of the 4 midfielders had good performances on Staurday, King simply went missing. So at the moment, I wouldn't be reshuffling our midfield just to accomodate his goalscoring, I'd simply replace him with someone who can play in that forward role with confidence, someone who will link up the strikers, dribble and has a shot on them as well. That is, unless Kingy can step up to the plate and fulfill his potential by improving his game. Exactly this..... Spot on post
marbelladave Posted 22 August 2011 Posted 22 August 2011 Doesn't he need to grow up and develop his game though? It's no good saying he should play deep and not play a creative part and just get in the box late and score. We have a very talented Michael Johnson on the bench who can get goals and be creative. I disagree about King being suited to playing deep, he is not a good defensive player. He's poor at marking, doesn't close down or chase quick enough and is an average tackler. I am yet to see him construct any real attacks with his vision and passing either, something Wellens is very good at. Now I'm not one who wants rid of King, he is a very talented player and I wouldn't accept less than £6m. But he needs to grow up and be more involved in general team play, or Johnson should replace him, when fit. He IS an attacking midfielder, he's just not a complete one yet. On some occassions last season he did his best stuff when in between the 2 banks of 4. When we give him the ball in space in front of the defence and he starts running at them, they are terrified of him. Sadly his movement isn't good enough and as a team the same, so we do not often create enough space for our forward players. 3 of the 4 midfielders had good performances on Staurday, King simply went missing. So at the moment, I wouldn't be reshuffling our midfield just to accomodate his goalscoring, I'd simply replace him with someone who can play in that forward role with confidence, someone who will link up the strikers, dribble and has a shot on them as well. That is, unless Kingy can step up to the plate and fulfill his potential by improving his game. Afternoon Kitch..... Disagree with almost everything in your post, except for the part that he needs to improve his game, but that applies to pretty much everyone in the team. I could just as easily say that Wellens "needs to develope his game" so that he stops slowing the game down and produces more in forward positions..... Unlike King he actually does have the ability to play decisive balls into our forwards but he rarely does so, to my mind he prefers to 'showboat' in deep positions when he could do so much more. Similarly I feel that King defends well in and around our box, though he has not had much opportunity to show this talent in recent times. I have said many times that King is not physical enough to defend in midfield for the reasons you say and I agree that he contributes little creative to our forward play and I do not see that changing anytime soon. Johnson is still not fit and remains an unknown quantity so those points are entirely speculative, on saturday, 1st half especially, Danns and Fernandez were very good, Wellens and King much less so. In fact, though as you well know I am no Wellens fan, I think that formation would work better if Wellens and King simply swapped places,
marbelladave Posted 22 August 2011 Posted 22 August 2011 Exactly this..... Spot on post Ganging up eh..... See my reply to Kitch........
okie fox Posted 22 August 2011 Posted 22 August 2011 King needs to improve his all-around play. In particular, he needs to challenge for the ball with more conviction and not to be pushed off it easily. That is why he can't play at the base of the diamond, He may be near the top of the passing stats, but that's because most of his passes are short and safe. He needs to learn the attacking mid field role. His forward runs are now being picked up so he now has to learn to shed his marker. He is still young so there is still time for him to improve.
Kierzz Posted 22 August 2011 Posted 22 August 2011 What the hell are you on about??? Invisible??? He scored 16 goals last season (and got 3 disallowed at the start of the season) and none of them were from free kicks and penalties, unlike Taarabt, Whittingham and McGugan who score most of their goals from set pieces And he was in the TEAM OF THE SEASON last year
marbelladave Posted 22 August 2011 Posted 22 August 2011 King needs to improve his all-around play. In particular, he needs to challenge for the ball with more conviction and not to be pushed off it easily. That is why he can't play at the base of the diamond, He may be near the top of the passing stats, but that's because most of his passes are short and safe. He needs to learn the attacking mid field role. His forward runs are now being picked up so he now has to learn to shed his marker. He is still young so there is still time for him to improve. If it was only that easy..... King is no longer a teanager, he is a fully developed player, you can refine his game but you simply can not expect him to change his game completely, otherwise you could turn Waghorn into decent center forward or Weale into an effective goalkeeper..... The hustle and bustle of central midfield is clearly the weakest part of Kings game, his lack of physical presence is a key issue here as he is easily bypassed. Sitting in front of the back 4 is a different game entirely, his tackling is clean if not exactly ferocious but then he is unlikely to give away silly freekicks on the edge of our box as Wellens does routinely and as he did on saturday. I normally suggest playing King as one of a pair of players taking up station in front of the back 4, their roles would not be purely defensive as King can make his runs from deep as he has done so effectively in the past. Paired with someone like Fernandez who has a good passing game and can break forward with the ball at his feet, an ideal combination I think.
Lambert09 Posted 22 August 2011 Posted 22 August 2011 Van de vart does nothing in the majority of Tottenhams games, but he is still one of their most valued players because they know when he does it will win them games... King is a championship version of VdV. I honestly think if he plays in that position for a few games he will get used to it and get back to his best
accessory Posted 22 August 2011 Posted 22 August 2011 Van de vart does nothing in the majority of Tottenhams games, but he is still one of their most valued players because they know when he does it will win them games... King is a championship version of VdV. I honestly think if he plays in that position for a few games he will get used to it and get back to his best It's absurd to compare King to a proven world-class talent like Van der Vaart. I suspect opposing managers have sussed him out and know how to deal with him. I doubt he'll get anything like 16 goals this season.
blueredswed Posted 22 August 2011 Posted 22 August 2011 I can only say! A lot of matches left and the invisi.....gonna score more then 10 goal this season. But every forum I read all FANS are so angry on each other. It is not wrong to get your voice heard here but CALM DOWN and support the team instead :scarf: After christmas wee can say mmmmm his shit or I love to seing the team play lets wait and see
okie fox Posted 22 August 2011 Posted 22 August 2011 If it was only that easy..... King is no longer a teanager, he is a fully developed player, you can refine his game but you simply can not expect him to change his game completely, otherwise you could turn Waghorn into decent center forward or Weale into an effective goalkeeper..... The hustle and bustle of central midfield is clearly the weakest part of Kings game, his lack of physical presence is a key issue here as he is easily bypassed. Sitting in front of the back 4 is a different game entirely, his tackling is clean if not exactly ferocious but then he is unlikely to give away silly freekicks on the edge of our box as Wellens does routinely and as he did on saturday. I normally suggest playing King as one of a pair of players taking up station in front of the back 4, their roles would not be purely defensive as King can make his runs from deep as he has done so effectively in the past. Paired with someone like Fernandez who has a good passing game and can break forward with the ball at his feet, an ideal combination I think. Playing attacking midfield is hardly a major change of position for King. There are lots of players who learn radically different positions even quite late in their careers (Walsh and Elliott are two local examples). Sitting in front of the back four is being in the hustle and bustle of midfield. Need a Scott Parker type player there to put his foot in, win the ball and so break up attacks. And who is going to cover for King when he makes his runs from the base of the diamond into the opposition's penalty area?
gazfox9 Posted 22 August 2011 Posted 22 August 2011 But at the moment he is not making "them late runs into the box" (sic) because he is playing so far forward, that is the problem...... He is not a striker, he does not hold the ball up, can not play with his back to goal and when he is played in he is stationary and usually well marked as he is already well forward. He has not been "found out" as some suggest, he is actually playing into the opposition's hands by getting forward nice and early so that the defenders can pick him up and mark him out of the game. He needs to play a much deeper role, if we play the 'diamond' he needs to be the player at the base of it with a genuine creative player at the point. Disagree with some of what you've said there. King wasn't getting forward nice and early with defenders marking him out of the game. On Saturday Forest played 4 at the back. Their 2 centre halves picked up Vassell and Nugent. If King was getting forward 'nice and early', then Forest would either a) pull in a full back to pick up King/ Vassell/Nugent, thus opening up the wings for Danns/Fernandes or, b) One of their central midfielders would have to track Kings runs,thus, in theory creating more space in the middle of the park. Just because King is played at the top of the diamond doesn't mean he's effectively a 3rd forward.
Guest Col city fan Posted 22 August 2011 Posted 22 August 2011 Ganging up eh..... See my reply to Kitch........ Course not dave.. There are some on here that do but I ain't one of them. I respect your views pal and have told you this before
Thracian Posted 22 August 2011 Posted 22 August 2011 Doesn't he need to grow up and develop his game though? It's no good saying he should play deep and not play a creative part and just get in the box late and score. We have a very talented Michael Johnson on the bench who can get goals and be creative. I disagree about King being suited to playing deep, he is not a good defensive player. He's poor at marking, doesn't close down or chase quick enough and is an average tackler. I am yet to see him construct any real attacks with his vision and passing either, something Wellens is very good at. Now I'm not one who wants rid of King, he is a very talented player and I wouldn't accept less than £6m. But he needs to grow up and be more involved in general team play, or Johnson should replace him, when fit. He IS an attacking midfielder, he's just not a complete one yet. On some occassions last season he did his best stuff when in between the 2 banks of 4. When we give him the ball in space in front of the defence and he starts running at them, they are terrified of him. Sadly his movement isn't good enough and as a team the same, so we do not often create enough space for our forward players. 3 of the 4 midfielders had good performances on Staurday, King simply went missing. So at the moment, I wouldn't be reshuffling our midfield just to accomodate his goalscoring, I'd simply replace him with someone who can play in that forward role with confidence, someone who will link up the strikers, dribble and has a shot on them as well. That is, unless Kingy can step up to the plate and fulfill his potential by improving his game. King is an excellent defender and perfectly suited to the defensive fulcrum role i've mentioned so often . He reads the game well, doesn't go ball-watching, never commits himself to a clumsy tackle but shepherds people away from danger and quite often nicks the ball. He wins a stack of headers from defensive corners and in areas of deep midfield, is a fast and safe passer and the sort of guy who makes himself available for the next pass as well. Indeed it is only since he's shed his defensive role, post Pearson that we've started to concede so many goals, including two more at Forest to go with the two against Reading and Bristol City. With Fernandez gradually imposing some presence on the team King would, as Marbella suggests, have his best opportunity yet, to make runs from deep without the fear that, if he does so, he will have no cover. People are so bland about us sacrificing the 20-odd goals he's involved in a season but we've already got little chance of success without those goals - and more from people other than our strikers when they're finally in place.
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