Writing

[The People's Hero]

Anyone got any tips?

Anyone had a serious effort at writing a decent lengthed fiction piece?

[Rincewind]

From what I have seen of some of your posts you already have some ability at doing it. If you mean by long piece a novel then the first page has to be interesting to catch the attention of those that read in W H Smiths. You have to plan it it have good characters heroes and villians. Conflicts problems and resove it all at the end..

It just depends what type of thing you want to do. I write short stories and poetry but none will do for mainstream publishing and unless you are a TV cook or a model with big tits publishers dont want to know.

[sphericalfox]

Anyone got any tips?

Anyone had a serious effort at writing a decent lengthed fiction piece?

It'll all depend on how you write.

If you are looking for tips on structure, the basis on which story, character types are developed, then look no further than the working of Joseph Campbell

http://www.amazon.com/Power-Myth-Joseph-Campbell/dp/0385418868

Or if you are looking for tips on how to make it happen, as time is a writer's worst enemy, that includes having too much time. Then look at this book. It gives you tips how to structure your time.

http://www.amazon.com/Writers-Time-Making-Write/dp/0393312631

Other than that, it's important to write, write, and write some more. Don't fall into the trap of trying to make it perfect in the first instance, grammer, punctuation, spelling etc. This is for the redrafts. Just build a basic structure and let your brain pour.

Don't know if that helps. Otherwise you have to be more specific where you need help.

[Zingari]

write about what you know

this explains why i've never written a book

[Thracian]

Anyone got any tips?

Anyone had a serious effort at writing a decent lengthed fiction piece?

You'll almost certainly have to publish and do the bulk of any promotion yourself.

If you shop around it's not expensive although the publisher's will doubtless bombard you with all sorts of expensive promotional packages. I used a company called Xlibris which are US-based and the actual publishing was pain free even to the point of being offered a 2-books-for-the-price-of-one deal. But you may be happier with an English-based company.

Xlibris are fairly typical I think. They arrange for the book to appear on worldwide distribution sites but actually getting it on the shelves in shops is quite something else.

Anyway the basic cost can be as little as £350 which included an E-book and you can expect to pay for your own selling stock which works out quite expensive in my view seeing as companies like Amazon can get it cheaper than the publisher allows you to buy it which is a scandal in my view.

Apart from my book being listed I've just sold signed copies of mine at the market and have never bothered with reviews or suchlike because it is only a book of poetry and cryptic philosophy and was basically written as a present for a friend so I had no desire to get involved with professional marketing and suchlike.

But for a novel you'll need to do all that and it'll be time consuming but fun if it's a good product.

As for your story, just tell it in your own way. Once it's written, if you've any doubts, put it in front of a journo or sub-editor and see what they think. When it is sent to be published they will only allow you so many mistakes in the script - anything above that small number is likely to be charged so it really is important to have the presented script right.

Mine was literally sent as an extended email and was published as sent effecting a reasonable financial saving and cutting production time down to a minimum. Publishers charge for providing skills such as sub-editing, marketing etc and also for the insertion of pictures (except for the first one in my case).

You're an educated guy and should have no trouble. Just ask if you have any queries or problems...and all the very best.

[Trav Le Bleu]

write about what you know

this explains why i've never written a book

This.

There's nothing worse than reading a novel and thinking, "wait a minute, that's not right!" because they're written about something about which they no nothing (or haven't done any research), but which is common knowledge to you.

Having said that, Dan Brown seems to get away with it.

Alternatively become a glamour model first and then write a book. Bingo!

Seriously though, write about what you know. Draw characters from people you know (just don't give them the same names ) and base locations on places you know well. For instance I read the Da Vinci Code whilst I was in Paris and it's blatantly obvious that Dan Brown had NEVER been there before he wrote it and was basing his work on the drawings of children.

Have written a couple of novels (one whilst I was at school), but it takes perseverence and you'll revisit your work lots of times before you're happy with it and get friends to read it too and give their opinions. I sent one manuscript around for publication to publishers, got a couple of positive replies with no results, though I was very young at the time and reading that manuscript now I can see how naiive it was. I'm currently rewriting it - much more fleshed out and detailed, but it's been the work of years and a labour of love.

But never give up. Watership Down was rejected over 40 times and it's a literary classic (and a great read!) The same for The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant ( a classic amongst it's genre.)

Of course, you could, like Thracian, go down the self-publishing route.

That's assuming that's your aim. You might just want to write for the heck of it?!

[The People's Hero]

Thanks all - quite a few helpful bits there although you may not have realised it.

My reasons are writing are just really that I need an avenue for some creative thought. My job is pretty dry in terms of subject matter and process and also pretty stressful. Writing is a way of relaxing really as well as an outlet for any negativity etc.

I have begun the novel with a couple of themes in mind and have used a couple of things I know a fair amount about (although am by no means an expert) to weave the world. One question I have is whether or not one tends to find the protaganist being very similar to the writer - or is this something I tend to gravitate towards? I hope that does not come across as vanity - its just I'm having the protaganist as having certain interests, which are interests of mine and naturally he is tending to morph in to me. I'm distancing him in several ways, but thats a very conscious thing and doesn't feel entirely natural. I suppose in many cases, the prot't will be either the image of the writer or a projection of how the writer might wish to be seen - or based on someone else entirely. I want the whole novel to develop organically and I'm hoping the novel shapes the character as well as vice versa.

The real issue I have now - although I don't see it as a problem or a challenge, merely something I'm interested to see how it unfolds but am not sure how I can positively affect it is in terms of plot development, which I'm not consciously aware of other than the emergence of a couple of themes. I think I need to speak to somebody who has written a novel before - as I would be interested to know how much idea of a plot a writer tends to have at this point? Mine might serve as a personal experiment I suppose in terms of where my subconscious takes this if I do not knowingly have a plot in mind. I feel that if I just let the characters and themes develop, the plots should hopefully feel more natural, organic and maybe therefore believable?

Anyway, I do appreciate the support so thankyou and I would appreciate any more tips that anybody has.

[The People's Hero]

You'll almost certainly have to publish and do the bulk of any promotion yourself.

Whilst it is an ambition of mine to be a 'published' novelist, I'm not convinced I have the necessary talent, dedication or commitment - nor the discipline.

That said, I suppose if I do finish and polish a 'novel', I might feel differently.

I'm certainly not seeing this as means to an end in terms of the goal being to get published. The writing process is one I'd like to go through and I suppose I'm interested to see what I might come up with.

[Rincewind]

Others are right when they write what you know about and the places too. Stephen King sets most of his novels in a town based on Maine where he lives. Obviously he alters it a little but he knows the area. He has also written about writers (Misery)

I believe Isaac Asimov had a science degree or two. Ian Flemming had association with the secret service so knew about spies. John Grisham was a lawyer.

My interest is beer. I have written about four short stories and used the same characters feature in some way in them. I thought if I find a common thread or storyline I could put 10-15 chapters about them Might need 20 chapters for a longer book but that would not be easy. They are mostly comical with three pals getting into comical situations. The last one only had one of them in though but with a mention for another.

The first one was based on a person that I knew. He is blind and once had to go to the job center to be assessed. He said if asked what job he'd like to do he'd answer an airline pilot. So I had him landing a plane. I cheated and missed the technical bits out though. Made it obviously OTT.

If I get enough I may just have a dozen copies or so done at a printers to take around some pubs. If anyone is interested I will just reprint to order, Being out of work I can't go down the publishing route.

I say go for it if you are confident and young enough and have the spare money.

[The People's Hero]

Others are right when they write what you know about and the places too. Stephen King sets most of his novels in a town based on Maine where he lives. Obviously he alters it a little but he knows the area. He has also written about writers (Misery)

I believe Isaac Asimov had a science degree or two. Ian Flemming had association with the secret service so knew about spies. John Grisham was a lawyer.

My interest is beer. I have written about four short stories and used the same characters feature in some way in them. I thought if I find a common thread or storyline I could put 10-15 chapters about them Might need 20 chapters for a longer book but that would not be easy. They are mostly comical with three pals getting into comical situations. The last one only had one of them in though but with a mention for another.

The first one was based on a person that I knew. He is blind and once had to go to the job center to be assessed. He said if asked what job he'd like to do he'd answer an airline pilot. So I had him landing a plane. I cheated and missed the technical bits out though. Made it obviously OTT.

If I get enough I may just have a dozen copies or so done at a printers to take around some pubs. If anyone is interested I will just reprint to order, Being out of work I can't go down the publishing route.

I say go for it if you are confident and young enough and have the spare money.

Thanks for the encouragement. Good to hear about your writing and hope it continues to bring you pleasure.

Have you put any up online for others to read? Either just to share it or for some feedback?

Money is actually tight at the moment. It seems SMP is a bit of a waste of time really, so I really don't know what we're going to do as my salary barely covers the mortgage. We will cross that bridge over the next few months. I'm certainly therefore not likely to be in a position to self-publish in the near future. Even if I ever got to a point of wanting to publish, there would certainly be no rush.

I wonder if as an exercise we could get a foxestalk novel going. Nothing too serious and of course it might not hang together well, but it would be interesting if someone put up a chapter of say a few thousand words (or whatever) and various contributors would add, if they felt like it.

Its something I'd enjoy contributing to.

[Daggers]

I for one would like to read a Foxestalk novel about apes - they are quite magnificent creatures.

[Guest Bilo]

I for one would like to read a Foxestalk novel about apes - they are quite magnificent creatures.

Presumably it'd be based heavily on one of the many Mills/Pearson/Beckford out threads.

[Raw Dykes]

Anyone got any tips?

Anyone had a serious effort at writing a decent lengthed fiction piece?

I'd certainly recommend watching the following fascinating episode of Charlie Brooker's Screenwipe, if you haven't already. Unusually, Brooker spends the entire episode interviewing different writers. I found it very informative, interesting and inspiring. They all write for television, but I think most of their advice and experience will apply to fiction in any media.

This is the first part, and you should be able to find the rest easily:

Edit: Please don't be put off by the still - Thankfully, Smith & Jones won't be giving any advice.

[Daggers]

I'd strongly recommend people to send unsolicited material to monthly magazines - I used to earn a reasonable amount from football and motorbike mags, an odd cross-over I admit but niche markets always need submissions.

[SOCCERROO FOX]

I'd strongly recommend people to send unsolicited material to monthly magazines - I used to earn a reasonable amount from football and motorbike mags, an odd cross-over I admit but niche markets always need submissions.

Or just send in saucy pics of yourself to earn extra coin

[Daggers]

Or just send in saucy pics of yourself to earn extra coin

The court order preventing you doing that is still in force and I will phone the police if you do it again.

[Christoph]

Read lots and lots of books and get lots and lots of inspiration.

[ozleicester]

What's a book?

[Zingari]

What's a book?

dunno, but judges often throw them at bad people

[Rincewind]

Foxestalk novel sounds a good idea. We may already have a plot. Mystery with a kidnapping/missing person after they go off for a rendezvous with a mysterious woman. (think you'll know where I'm coming from here) a great sleuth is hired to investigate with hilarious or tragic disastrous episodes For the non-writers there could be the illustrator role And for the tech experts format into an E-Book.

Stop me if I am ahead too much on this.

Not put all my stories for the idea I had on my PC yet. I have a working title which I think is quite good The Three Cask O' Beers.

It is mainly about the three characters and a dog belonging to the blind one. One story is a shortish piece about a barman which the three appear in.. I supposed it'll be a bit like Last Of The Summer Wine but set around the world of beer and drinking companions.

I just need some real life incidents to work from preferably musing but if not I can still had my weird sense of humour to them.

So any ideas would be welcome.. I just need the prompts.

One of them involved link words from the writers club. From memory they were building,lightning fire,house, and a couple others so I had the three pals go up in a hot air balloon and getting caught in a thunderstorm which luckily for them eventually crashing on the roof of a pub.

Anyway I thought about 10 stories might be enough and if I could get someone to do some cartoon like drawings it would be ideal to sell at beer festivals just having them printed to order. A local printer I know does 10 A5 booklets for around £17.

Got an idea for a cover. Three glasses with a picture on each and a dog underneath sitting on a beer barrel (cartoon form)

Anyway for TPH I have a lot of my work on a site called www.writing.com under the name of nightguard. I may have a link in my profile but some of it is on one of my blogs a link in my sig. Like what I Wrote.

[Trav Le Bleu]

Thanks all - quite a few helpful bits there although you may not have realised it.

My reasons are writing are just really that I need an avenue for some creative thought. My job is pretty dry in terms of subject matter and process and also pretty stressful. Writing is a way of relaxing really as well as an outlet for any negativity etc.

I have begun the novel with a couple of themes in mind and have used a couple of things I know a fair amount about (although am by no means an expert) to weave the world. One question I have is whether or not one tends to find the protaganist being very similar to the writer - or is this something I tend to gravitate towards? I hope that does not come across as vanity - its just I'm having the protaganist as having certain interests, which are interests of mine and naturally he is tending to morph in to me. I'm distancing him in several ways, but thats a very conscious thing and doesn't feel entirely natural. I suppose in many cases, the prot't will be either the image of the writer or a projection of how the writer might wish to be seen - or based on someone else entirely. I want the whole novel to develop organically and I'm hoping the novel shapes the character as well as vice versa.

The real issue I have now - although I don't see it as a problem or a challenge, merely something I'm interested to see how it unfolds but am not sure how I can positively affect it is in terms of plot development, which I'm not consciously aware of other than the emergence of a couple of themes. I think I need to speak to somebody who has written a novel before - as I would be interested to know how much idea of a plot a writer tends to have at this point? Mine might serve as a personal experiment I suppose in terms of where my subconscious takes this if I do not knowingly have a plot in mind. I feel that if I just let the characters and themes develop, the plots should hopefully feel more natural, organic and maybe therefore believable?

Anyway, I do appreciate the support so thankyou and I would appreciate any more tips that anybody has.

What you describe is largely the way that I write and I have read that other writers do to - protaganist is essentially yourself and starting off with a vague plot/characters and seeing where they take you. It makes it much more fun since you've only a vague idea of the ending yourself. And if you feel like preening and pruning your story when it's done, you may find significant changes come to mind.

I really need to get back to mine - haven't touched it in about a year and I'd need to reread the first 3/4 to get back up to speed with the story (at least precisely enough for there not to be any continuity errors - which WILL be your biggest mistakes writing they way you describe. You'll need someone else to point them out to you too, because when you read it, you'll skim over the mistakes and insert what you knew you meant! Someone else won't necessarily think like you and the continuity errors will stand out like a sore thumb! )

EDIT: my edit was for a typo and not a continuity error!

[sphericalfox]

Thanks all - quite a few helpful bits there although you may not have realised it.

My reasons are writing are just really that I need an avenue for some creative thought. My job is pretty dry in terms of subject matter and process and also pretty stressful. Writing is a way of relaxing really as well as an outlet for any negativity etc.

I have begun the novel with a couple of themes in mind and have used a couple of things I know a fair amount about (although am by no means an expert) to weave the world. One question I have is whether or not one tends to find the protaganist being very similar to the writer - or is this something I tend to gravitate towards? I hope that does not come across as vanity - its just I'm having the protaganist as having certain interests, which are interests of mine and naturally he is tending to morph in to me. I'm distancing him in several ways, but thats a very conscious thing and doesn't feel entirely natural. I suppose in many cases, the prot't will be either the image of the writer or a projection of how the writer might wish to be seen - or based on someone else entirely. I want the whole novel to develop organically and I'm hoping the novel shapes the character as well as vice versa.

The real issue I have now - although I don't see it as a problem or a challenge, merely something I'm interested to see how it unfolds but am not sure how I can positively affect it is in terms of plot development, which I'm not consciously aware of other than the emergence of a couple of themes. I think I need to speak to somebody who has written a novel before - as I would be interested to know how much idea of a plot a writer tends to have at this point? Mine might serve as a personal experiment I suppose in terms of where my subconscious takes this if I do not knowingly have a plot in mind. I feel that if I just let the characters and themes develop, the plots should hopefully feel more natural, organic and maybe therefore believable?

Anyway, I do appreciate the support so thankyou and I would appreciate any more tips that anybody has.

Basic rules of writing:

1. Research - know your location like the back of your hand. A good location/setting(s) can enable plot and interesting turning points. same goes for character. If one of your main characters is mechanic, then if you know nothing about fixin a car or something like that, find someone who does and start talking to them.

2. Characters - know your main characters inside out. write an in-depth backstory for each, and go as far as writing psych profiles. This enables you to know instantly what they will do at turning points in your story or chapter. Don't scrimp on this aspect. If you don't know them, your reader won't and deffo won't care for them. You won't necessarily use the detail in your story, but a well detailed character beams from the page of an author who makes the right decisions for their protagonist & antagonist without pissin off the reader.

3. Forget dialogue in your first draft. Concentrate on the actions. By all means write down a speech or two if you get the inclination, but always remember actions speak louder than words.

4. Further down the line, remember that every chapter should almost read like a short story. It should have it's own story arc, turning point, and conclusion, unless you are writing some truly modern, avant garde book.

5. Persistance. Make sure you write. Even if it's a bag o shite, and you can't be bothered - write for a minimum of time, and even a maximum of time and stick to it, but EVERY day. Otherwise there's no point in starting the journey.

Any ways, those are the rules I stick by, I'm sure there are others, but they are a guide i go by when writing big pieces and scripts too.

Hope it helps.

[Rincewind]

Mention the hero a few toimes in the first few chapters. Don't kill the hero off. Although Ben Elton did it in one of his books. Gridlocked. Hero was n inventer that came up with a fuel that would put petrol companies out of business so he was murdered. However there were olother heroes to take his place and investigate his death. Bit of a shock though after a couple of chapters. Thats Ben Elton for you. He can get away with it.

[The People's Hero]

Set myself a target of another 1,000 words tonight. Considering a bottle of wine first. Sod's law that should encourage the baby along.

AMBULANCE!

[21st Century Fox]

If you find yourself getting writers block, I highly recommend The War of Art by Steven Pressfield.