Beckford.

[Poakey]

Rubbish.. Look up through the thread...

I've used the terms good finisher, lethal et al on more than one occassion. And I've suggested his all round game is weak too..

Don't just lie, read the thread at least....

I've also said that Beckford is improving.. So the record has changed.. It's just not spinning out of control about him like many do.

You're post demonstrates many on here when it is based on a subject that people really don't want to discuss. Rather than actually read a thread through and what has been said, you will glibly make up a one liner to try to dismiss everything that went before.

This will be the 1st time in about 6 years i have put someone on ignore. I just cant bear your posts, if someone disagrees with what you put it's followed by "utter crap" or "rubbish" and you expect people to agree with the shit that you type.

Has the ignore feature gone?

[Haydos]

It's great when you can just pick the top scorers from this season and say we should sign them, isn't it?

[jonlcfc1990]

For what i can see there are facts to support both arguments why can't people just disagree and leave it at that? Just because someone has a different opinion on a player doesn't make them wrong.

[Guest Col city fan]

This will be the 1st time in about 6 years i have put someone on ignore. I just cant bear your posts, if someone disagrees with what you put it's followed by "utter crap" or "rubbish" and you expect people to agree with the shit that you type.

Okey doke.. Ciao ciao baby....

[Guest Col city fan]

It's great when you can just pick the top scorers from this season and say we should sign them, isn't it?

I picked the top scorers who have made a large number of assists too mate, as you well know. To dispute the point that neither Nugent nor Beckford have assisted each other and therefore all this 'great partnership' stuff actually isn't.

But you knew that really I guess.

[AKCJ]

I picked the top scorers who have made a large number of assists too mate, as you well know. To dispute the point that neither Nugent nor Beckford have assisted each other and therefore all this 'great partnership' stuff actually isn't.

But you knew that really I guess.

Well that's bullshit.

What happened in the Cov game?

Seriously, you talk so much shit it's unreal.

[Guest Col city fan]

For what i can see there are facts to support both arguments why can't people just disagree and leave it at that? Just because someone has a different opinion on a player doesn't make them wrong.

Sensible post Jon.. And that's exactly what I've been trying to do throughout the thread, starting with my original one yesterday attempting to highlight Beck's strengths, but also his weaknesses. Realistic and balanced, not biased or skewed.

People will agree, or they won't.. Tis a football forum.

[Guest Col city fan]

Well that's bullshit.

What happened in the Cov game?

Seriously, you talk so much shit it's unreal.

You're basing your argument on ONE game?

Fooks sake

Look at the stats...

I give up.

[jonlcfc1990]

As far as i can see Col has stated facts and has been targeted on his opinions? The facts he's stated aren't wrong so you can't disagree with those but if you disagree with his opinion then just take it for what it is surely? Loads of people think differently and especially at football in the words of Andy Gray "Stats can mean anything you want them too" All we can do is form an opinion on players by what we see and what we know. Just because Col uses facts and gives a different opinion does this make him wrong? Or does it make people wrong who don't look at facts and defend players without facts to back up counter claims? I'm all for supporting players (for the record i'm a big big fan of Becks) But if someone else isn't a fan it's not the end of the world? Fook me if we all felt the same this thread wouldn't be 21 pages long

[Haydos]

I picked the top scorers who have made a large number of assists too mate, as you well know. To dispute the point that neither Nugent nor Beckford have assisted each other and therefore all this 'great partnership' stuff actually isn't.

But you knew that really I guess.

It was in response to these, Col...

He would do fine imo, capable of scoring goals at this level and would be a good foil to knock balls down for the likes of Beckford and Nugent. If not Henderson than someone like Rodriguez from Burnley or Chris Wood from WBA on loan would be fine.

Darius Henderson in the summer, anyone?

[AKCJ]

You're basing your argument on ONE game?

Fooks sake

Look at the stats...

I give up.

I'm using a recent case where both set each other up.

Watford away, Norwich away, Blackpool home, Chelsea away, Swindon home, Palace home, Watford home, Barnsley away....

Few examples where Beckford or Nuge set up goals, off the top of me head.

[Guest Col city fan]

As far as i can see Col has stated facts and has been targeted on his opinions? The facts he's stated aren't wrong so you can't disagree with those but if you disagree with his opinion then just take it for what it is surely? Loads of people think differently and especially at football in the words of Andy Gray "Stats can mean anything you want them too" All we can do is form an opinion on players by what we see and what we know. Just because Col uses facts and gives a different opinion does this make him wrong? Or does it make people wrong who don't look at facts and defend players without facts to back up counter claims? I'm all for supporting players (for the record i'm a big big fan of Becks) But if someone else isn't a fan it's not the end of the world? Fook me if we all felt the same this thread wouldn't be 21 pages long

Cheers Jon... The bizarre thing is I have just been trying to give a balanced opinion on Beckford.

Yes, until Sven left I DID think Becks was pants. Since Nige has been back, he's improved.

All I've said, really, is that I don't rate his all round game.. Sure, he can finish... I must have said this about ten times, but I'm worried about his 'team-play'.

The stats are there.. Take them or leave them, and they can be manipulated to make an argument either way I guess.

Why Beckford people have asked?

Simply because I find him a completely frustrating player who has the natural ability to have provided us with a really good shout this season.. But he doesn't always use it. That's actually a back handed compliment if you really think about it.

Anyway, even I'm bored of this now...

Over and out...

[Charl91]

Rickie Lambert - 24 goals, 8 assists

Marlon King - 12 goals, 6 assists

Peter Whittingham - 10 goals, 11 assists

Ross McCormack - 15 goals, 5 assists

Chris Burke - 9 goals, 13 assists

Michael Chopra - 13 goals, 5 assists

Robert Snodgrass - 10 goals, 12 assists

Darius Henderson - 14 goals, 5 assists

Jay Rodriguez - 15 goals, 5 assists

Rickie Lambert - 24 goals, 8 assists - Only played at League one standard at most beforehand. Yes he is good, but that's only with the availability of hindsight.

Marlon King - 12 goals, 6 assists - Beckfords scoring ratio is better this season then his, and Beckford isn't a disgusting human being.

Peter Whittingham - 10 goals, 11 assists - Good player, but not really a striker

Ross McCormack - 15 goals, 5 assists - Fairly good season this year, but last season 2 goals in 20 games, and a total of 18 in 54 for Leeds.

Chris Burke - 9 goals, 13 assists - Again, not a striker (as far as I am aware), and a career total of 39 goals in 254

Michael Chopra - 13 goals, 5 assists - Not a bad player, but hardly set the championship alight in the past few seasons. Not as good as Beckford.

Robert Snodgrass - 10 goals, 12 assists - Good player, but not a striker

Darius Henderson - 14 goals, 5 assists - Good season this year, but his last great season was 2005/2006

Jay Rodriguez - 15 goals, 5 assists - Good season this year, but again, hardly outstanding last season.

ll you've done is gone down the championship list and listed the top scorers. That's all very well with the benefit of hindsight, but if anyone had the ability to know who would be top scorer before the season started, then it would be easy. Some of these players no-one would have thought would be top scorers this season, and you have no way of knowing whether they will replicate it in another season. Some of these I would argue would be good additions to our squad (especially Snodgrass), but not as a replacement for JB.

My other criticism is that you assume every player can slot straight into a team. Yes, some can manage it, but it takes others a while to gel with the team, as we're finally seeing now. Just because a player performs in another team, it doesn't mean they will play well for us straight away, if ever. If JB has an awful second season, then I might be inclined to agree with you, but it's silly to criticise him at the moment when he's in form. Yes, he has his faults, but even top level strikers have faults.

[Haydos]

Rickie Lambert - 24 goals, 8 assists - Only played at League one standard at most beforehand. Yes he is good, but that's only with the availability of hindsight.

Marlon King - 12 goals, 6 assists - Beckfords scoring ratio is better this season then his, and Beckford isn't a disgusting human being.

Peter Whittingham - 10 goals, 11 assists - Good player, but not really a striker

Ross McCormack - 15 goals, 5 assists - Fairly good season this year, but last season 2 goals in 20 games, and a total of 18 in 54 for Leeds.

Chris Burke - 9 goals, 13 assists - Again, not a striker (as far as I am aware), and a career total of 39 goals in 254

Michael Chopra - 13 goals, 5 assists - Not a bad player, but hardly set the championship alight in the past few seasons. Not as good as Beckford.

Robert Snodgrass - 10 goals, 12 assists - Good player, but not a striker

Darius Henderson - 14 goals, 5 assists - Good season this year, but his last great season was 2005/2006

Jay Rodriguez - 15 goals, 5 assists - Good season this year, but again, hardly outstanding last season.

ll you've done is gone down the championship list and listed the top scorers. That's all very well with the benefit of hindsight, but if anyone had the ability to know who would be top scorer before the season started, then it would be easy. Some of these players no-one would have thought would be top scorers this season, and you have no way of knowing whether they will replicate it in another season. Some of these I would argue would be good additions to our squad (especially Snodgrass), but not as a replacement for JB.

My other criticism is that you assume every player can slot straight into a team. Yes, some can manage it, but it takes others a while to gel with the team, as we're finally seeing now. Just because a player performs in another team, it doesn't mean they will play well for us straight away, if ever. If JB has an awful second season, then I might be inclined to agree with you, but it's silly to criticise him at the moment when he's in form. Yes, he has his faults, but even top level strikers have faults.

This is exactly what I've been saying for ages (but in a lot more detail), well done, I can't give you enough +1's. You seem to be the only one who has realised this. All everybody has done is post with hindsight that we should have signed a better striker like Lambert and it really is irritating.

[NeilyBoy]

Rickie Lambert - 24 goals, 8 assists - Only played at League one standard at most beforehand. Yes he is good, but that's only with the availability of hindsight.

Marlon King - 12 goals, 6 assists - Beckfords scoring ratio is better this season then his, and Beckford isn't a disgusting human being.

Peter Whittingham - 10 goals, 11 assists - Good player, but not really a striker

Ross McCormack - 15 goals, 5 assists - Fairly good season this year, but last season 2 goals in 20 games, and a total of 18 in 54 for Leeds.

Chris Burke - 9 goals, 13 assists - Again, not a striker (as far as I am aware), and a career total of 39 goals in 254

Michael Chopra - 13 goals, 5 assists - Not a bad player, but hardly set the championship alight in the past few seasons. Not as good as Beckford.

Robert Snodgrass - 10 goals, 12 assists - Good player, but not a striker

Darius Henderson - 14 goals, 5 assists - Good season this year, but his last great season was 2005/2006

Jay Rodriguez - 15 goals, 5 assists - Good season this year, but again, hardly outstanding last season.

ll you've done is gone down the championship list and listed the top scorers. That's all very well with the benefit of hindsight, but if anyone had the ability to know who would be top scorer before the season started, then it would be easy. Some of these players no-one would have thought would be top scorers this season, and you have no way of knowing whether they will replicate it in another season. Some of these I would argue would be good additions to our squad (especially Snodgrass), but not as a replacement for JB.

My other criticism is that you assume every player can slot straight into a team. Yes, some can manage it, but it takes others a while to gel with the team, as we're finally seeing now. Just because a player performs in another team, it doesn't mean they will play well for us straight away, if ever. If JB has an awful second season, then I might be inclined to agree with you, but it's silly to criticise him at the moment when he's in form. Yes, he has his faults, but even top level strikers have faults.

I agree with this 95%

The errant 5% is where you state Chopra hasn't set the championship alight: His time at Cardiff turned him into one of the Championship's hot prospects.

[polarbear]

if this argument really wants to be settled....the best thing to do is see if col city fan suggested at the start of the season before a ball was even kicked that we should go for players like lambert, roberts etc, its the best way to check before a players/team form and momentum come into it.

that isnt a slight at you Col...the polar bear is just sick of seeing this argument back and fourth with no real outcome

in my opinion, beckford had a good game sat, and has had a number of good games since the turn of the year (except reading and a few others), I think Nige likes him and will continue to persist, yes he isnt the hardest working nor is his heading/first touch superb (or even average), if you look at all his goals at everton, leeds the majority were scored by through balls, balls to run onto.

and on the whole the team shouldnt have to adapt to him, LCFC have adapted their style to meet certain player...under micky adams in our promotion season and in the prem we specifically adapted to getting set pieces to use Izzet's ability and to make use of Ferdinand, scowcroft etc

[Guest Col city fan]

Rickie Lambert - 24 goals, 8 assists - Only played at League one standard at most beforehand. Yes he is good, but that's only with the availability of hindsight.

Marlon King - 12 goals, 6 assists - Beckfords scoring ratio is better this season then his, and Beckford isn't a disgusting human being.

Peter Whittingham - 10 goals, 11 assists - Good player, but not really a striker

Ross McCormack - 15 goals, 5 assists - Fairly good season this year, but last season 2 goals in 20 games, and a total of 18 in 54 for Leeds.

Chris Burke - 9 goals, 13 assists - Again, not a striker (as far as I am aware), and a career total of 39 goals in 254

Michael Chopra - 13 goals, 5 assists - Not a bad player, but hardly set the championship alight in the past few seasons. Not as good as Beckford.

Robert Snodgrass - 10 goals, 12 assists - Good player, but not a striker

Darius Henderson - 14 goals, 5 assists - Good season this year, but his last great season was 2005/2006

Jay Rodriguez - 15 goals, 5 assists - Good season this year, but again, hardly outstanding last season.

ll you've done is gone down the championship list and listed the top scorers. That's all very well with the benefit of hindsight, but if anyone had the ability to know who would be top scorer before the season started, then it would be easy. Some of these players no-one would have thought would be top scorers this season, and you have no way of knowing whether they will replicate it in another season. Some of these I would argue would be good additions to our squad (especially Snodgrass), but not as a replacement for JB.

My other criticism is that you assume every player can slot straight into a team. Yes, some can manage it, but it takes others a while to gel with the team, as we're finally seeing now. Just because a player performs in another team, it doesn't mean they will play well for us straight away, if ever. If JB has an awful second season, then I might be inclined to agree with you, but it's silly to criticise him at the moment when he's in form. Yes, he has his faults, but even top level strikers have faults.

Ok one more..

You've missed the point mate... I'm not sure on purpose or by accident?

What these figures suggest to me is that the bulk of the top league goal scorers have also chipped in with ASSISTS. That was the real point.

Neither Beckford nor Nugent appear in the top twenty five league table for assists.

By definition, they have not set up 'each other' for many goals at all. The figures then, fly in the face of people suggesting that the pair of them have developed a 'strong partnership'... This actually is not the case. If it were they would have both scored more goals AND assisted each other more to score them.

However, as I stated earlier... None of our squad, not one single player, appears in the top assists table, with the exception of Drinkwater, mainly when at Barnsley. This represents a bigger problem and also indicates that if Sven may have pushed the boat out to get a Snodgrass or a Burke, we may have been in a better place at present.

I make no assumptions, and of course I know players fit in better at certain clubs. For fooks sake, we've seen that enough with City players over the past few years.

But ignore the 'lack of assists' thing at your peril. This demonstrates, to me anyway, that Beckford's lack of overall game is clear to see. Nugent has scored league goals, so can be excused. He has also MADE and TAKEN a number of goals himself..

But Beckford has just about literally set no goals up for any of his team mates.

Here's the rub... Do you consider that he WILL now start to do so? If so, then fine... If the argument is that Nugent and Beckford WILL form a formidable 'partnership' then we can go with that.

But the stats tell us that this hasnt yet happened.. And the season is not far from being over. Hell, it still could happen and we could sneak the play offs! If so, we will all be happy!

But this makes me come back again to my original point... Beckford can be a clinical finisher (positive), but his ability to bring other players into the mix, especially to score goals is not so good (negative).....

[Guest Col city fan]

if this argument really wants to be settled....the best thing to do is see if col city fan suggested at the start of the season before a ball was even kicked that we should go for players like lambert, roberts etc, its the best way to check before a players/team form and momentum come into it.

that isnt a slight at you Col...the polar bear is just sick of seeing this argument back and fourth with no real outcome

in my opinion, beckford had a good game sat, and has had a number of good games since the turn of the year (except reading and a few others), I think Nige likes him and will continue to persist, yes he isnt the hardest working nor is his heading/first touch superb (or even average), if you look at all his goals at everton, leeds the majority were scored by through balls, balls to run onto.

and on the whole the team shouldnt have to adapt to him, LCFC have adapted their style to meet certain player...under micky adams in our promotion season and in the prem we specifically adapted to getting set pieces to use Izzet's ability and to make use of Ferdinand, scowcroft etc

I don't think it really matters what I thought pre season mate.. It's all academic.

For the record though... Look back through the posts if you wish to, I stated I wanted Billy Sharp, a tough midfield player ( eg Jay Thomas) and a good right winger (Kebe for example)

I also suggested I wouldn't have signed Beckford.. Not because he can't score goals, but because of everything above.

Finally, i suggested Jason Roberts in the Jan transfer window.

However, that really don't matter.. That's just my view. Like all the others.

[MONreborn]

How many has beckford scored this season? wouldn't be surprised to see him and nuge hit 20

[shade]

its fine saying that you're giving a balanced opinion, but it's an opinion that nearly ALWAYS includes something negative. you say something positive through gritted teeth, in an attempt to veil your obvious dislike of the player. i don't think beckford is that great personally, but if he hits 20 goals this season, other supporters looking in would think that you were mental.

[Guest Col city fan]

How many has beckford scored this season? wouldn't be surprised to see him and nuge hit 20

I really don't think the FA cup goals matter. Not really. We were never gonna win it. I guess I'll get shot down in flames for saying so, but what has really mattered this season has been the week-in, week-out grind of the Championship. This is where the lack of goals and lack of assists has thus far, let us down.

However, the season ain't over yet is it.. I hope this improves and that we make the play offs. Of course.

[Guest Col city fan]

its fine saying that you're giving a balanced opinion, but it's an opinion that nearly ALWAYS includes something negative. you say something positive through gritted teeth, in an attempt to veil your obvious dislike of the player. i don't think beckford is that great personally, but if he hits 20 goals this season, other supporters looking in would think that you were mental.

Positive through gritted teeth?

Beckford can be a clinical finisher. No teeth gritted, just a fact..

Happy smile on my face.

[jonlcfc1990]

I really don't think the FA cup goals matter. Not really. We were never gonna win it. I guess I'll get shot down in flames for saying so, but what has really mattered this season has been the week-in, week-out grind of the Championship. This is where the lack of goals and lack of assists has thus far, let us down.

However, the season ain't over yet is it.. I hope this improves and that we make the play offs. Of course.

Your like a kitty cat on catnip when it comes to this thread lets shoot for the play offs!

[seenitall]

Nice to see the team improving though isn't it, gets us all behind them and pulling together, that's what I like

[Charl91]

Ok one more..

You've missed the point mate... I'm not sure on purpose or by accident?

What these figures suggest to me is that the bulk of the top league goal scorers have also chipped in with ASSISTS. That was the real point.

Neither Beckford nor Nugent appear in the top twenty five league table for assists.

By definition, they have not set up 'each other' for many goals at all. The figures then, fly in the face of people suggesting that the pair of them have developed a 'strong partnership'... This actually is not the case. If it were they would have both scored more goals AND assisted each other more to score them.

However, as I stated earlier... None of our squad, not one single player, appears in the top assists table, with the exception of Drinkwater, mainly when at Barnsley. This represents a bigger problem and also indicates that if Sven may have pushed the boat out to get a Snodgrass or a Burke, we may have been in a better place at present.

I make no assumptions, and of course I know players fit in better at certain clubs. For fooks sake, we've seen that enough with City players over the past few years.

But ignore the 'lack of assists' thing at your peril. This demonstrates, to me anyway, that Beckford's lack of overall game is clear to see. Nugent has scored league goals, so can be excused.

But Beckford has just about literally set no goals up for any of his team mates.

Here's the rub... Do you consider that he WILL now start to do so? If so, then fine... If the argument is that Nugent and Beckford WILL form a formidable 'partnership' then we can go with that.

But the stats tell us that this hasnt yet happened.. And the season is not far from being over. Hell, it still could happen and we could sneak the play offs! If so, we will all be happy!

But this makes me come back again to my original point... Beckford can be a clinical finisher (positive), but his ability to bring other players into the mix, especially to score goals is not so good (negative).....

No, I got the point about assists. But it brings us back to the "that yakubu, all he does is score goals" argument. As long as they both put away goals at a good rate, it doesn't matter whether they assist each other or not. Regardless, they might not have set each other up for goals; had Beckford started the season better, they might have done. That being said, I can think of a few occasions off the top of my head where they have set each other up, and their link-up play, while not the best, isn't bad.

I also think you missed the point; why would you name midfielders in that list? Considering the topic was Beckford, and who could replace him, the amount of assists that other midfielders have is not really relevant. And again, the point still stands, they may have lots of assists/goals this season, but that's with the benefit of hindsight.

Nugent hasn't scored that many more goals then Beckford (and that's including Beckfords awful start to the season). True, they were in the league, rather then the cup, but that's a non-point really. Yes, Beckfords goals probably would be more useful in the League - but it's not as if Nugent wasn't trying to score in the cup, and Beckford hasn't been trying to score in the league. Where they were scored doesn't really change the quality or ability of a player to score goals, unless they happen to be against a league two side (and Beckford scored against Chelsea, so we can't really complain). The point is, If he can score in the cup, he can score in the league, the recent goals are more down to his good form.

You might think Beckford only having 3 assists is bad, but I'd be more concerned about the fact that Gallagher only has 2. I mean, Wellens only has 5, and he's meant to be our creative midfielder!