Sharia Law

[Rincewind]

[Zingari]

Is it just me or has there been a shift in attitude towards Islam recently.(not just on this forum but in general )

It seemed a while back any criticism of Islam was met with much opposition and usually accompanied with calls of racism and bigotry.

Now it seems that any apology for it is met with calls of being anti feminism and supportive of oppression .

[Rincewind]

Looking for a pic cant find it. Anyway

Eskimo to priest; 'Would I go to Hell if I did not know it was there?'

Priest; 'No, if you did not know about it.'

Eskimo; 'Then why tell me?'

[Webbo]

I dont think we can take the high moral ethical? ground whilst we still are being governed by laws that are based on religious bullsh!t.

Which laws do you have in mind?

[Captain...]

Which laws do you have in mind?

Thou shalt not kill.

That was a crazy Christian Commandment that we still have to live by today!!!

[Daggers]

I covet Webbo's ass on a daily basis.

[Raw Dykes]

I dont think we can take the high moral ethical? ground whilst we still are being governed by laws that are based on religious bullsh!t.

For one thing, even if we were being governed by laws based on religious bullsh*t, that wouldn't mean that we'd have to agree that they were good. For another, the batsh*t crazy laws in the Bible are recognised as such, and are not observed by civilised society, and the sensible laws in the Bible are much older than the Bible, anyway. The sensible laws that happen to appear in the Bible would be followed today whether they had appeared in the Bible or not. Other social species understand that a society that allows murder, rape and theft is not good. We don't need religion to tell us this, and we never did.

[Webbo]

I covet Webbo's ass on a daily basis.

You're not alone chap, you're not alone.

[The Year Of The Fox]

Is it just me or has there been a shift in attitude towards Islam recently.(not just on this forum but in general )

It seemed a while back any criticism of Islam was met with much opposition and usually accompanied with calls of racism and bigotry.

Now it seems that any apology for it is met with calls of being anti feminism and supportive of oppression .

No, you've still got the pro Islam, hate anyone who objects posters on here

[Zingari]

No, you've still got the pro Islam, hate anyone who objects posters on here

Yes of course, but I’m sure the objectors are not quite so strident and smugly mocking toward those who have been concerned by Islam and sharia in the UK .

Don't you think there’s been quite a shift in attitude recently ?

Maybe it is just me imagining it

[21st Century Fox]

No, you've still got the pro Islam, hate anyone who objects posters on here

Yeah like when you start a thread about how funny it is to watch 'towel heads' getting shot on TV. You just can't express these balanced views on here without some do-gooders getting all pro-Islam.

[I am Rod Hull]

What would this guy do?

[BoneDog]

No, you've still got the pro Islam, hate anyone who objects posters on here

Who is hating anyone who is against stoning or brutality? The only hate in this thread seems to be coming from people who hate religion for reasons that have nothing to do with religion. I'm not hating anyone on here, I'm just trying (and largely failing) to point out that religion is not the problem.

Whether religion existed or not, we would still have exactly the same amount of tyrants, terrorists, rapists and other plain scum in this world.

Yes I'm pro-Islam, Christianity and Judaism. The real versions that is, not the phoney fake extreme versions that have popped up continuously for over 1000 years that people seem to regard as religious. Alot of, if not all of these extreme 'religious' groups have ties to - or were created by - different intelligence agencies from around the world and I think that should alarm people, or at least alert them to the truth.

[BoneDog]

What about young girls who go through Female Circumcision or as its more aptly titled Female Genital Mutilation, while not an exclusively Islamic practise, is this a cultural quirk that should be ignored because none of these young girls are telling us they don't enjoy it?

That genital mutilation thing is not Islamic in any way. I'm not sure which nutter started that process off, or when, but he certainly wasn't/isn't a Muslim! If some nutcase leader in some country is claiming this to be Islamic then he is a liar.

[BoneDog]

lol "it's NOT stoning, they're not ****ing barbarians!! ... it's a hundred lashes!"

Okay then, that's perfectly fine! I take it all back! Just about any 100lb young woman could take a hundred lashes and purely laugh it off, barely a punishment that is.

Yes it is 100 lashes for man and woman. But only if you get caught by four witnesses. That part is very important. It's a severe warning and deterrent, not a punishment that you are likely to ever see in action at all. As I said before - who is going to get caught having sex with their bits on the side by four people? Nobody is.

Adultery is a despicable crime and it destroys many families. It often breaks apart two families at once. I can understand why such a crime warrants a severe deterrent. I have seen the consequences of adultery for myself personally and for many others. Building a society based on the family unit is a major part of Islam, and other religions, and I totally respect that. When the family unit in a society falls apart that society descends a level. We are seeing mass evidence of this in Western society.

[Raw Dykes]

Who is hating anyone who is against stoning or brutality? The only hate in this thread seems to be coming from people who hate religion for reasons that have nothing to do with religion. I'm not hating anyone on here, I'm just trying (and largely failing) to point out that religion is not the problem.

I hate religion for the following reasons:

Creating divisions in society via an "us vs. them" / tribe mentality

Teaching fantasy as fact / dogmatism / brainwashing

Impeding the progress of science

Not only do these reasons have something to do with religion, they are are at the very heart of it. Don't get me wrong, I know there are plenty of good, sound people who happen to be religious, and I certainly don't hate anyone because they are religious, but I do hate the ideas and the agenda of organised religion itself. Religion is the problem. It does far more harm than good, and it's totally unnecessary.

Whether religion existed or not, we would still have exactly the same amount of tyrants, terrorists, rapists and other plain scum in this world.

I do agree with you to a large extent. However, it's the good people who would be good whether they're religious or not. I'm convinced there are religious people who commit atrocities who wouldn't have if it weren't for the religion affecting their brains. I can't think of one good thing religion has ever offered mankind. I can think of plenty of disgusting things.

Yes I'm pro-Islam, Christianity and Judaism. The real versions that is, not the phoney fake extreme versions that have popped up continuously for over 1000 years that people seem to regard as religious. Alot of, if not all of these extreme 'religious' groups have ties to - or were created by - different intelligence agencies from around the world and I think that should alarm people, or at least alert them to the truth.

This is the "No True Scotsman" logical fallacy. You're defining religion how you want it to be, rather than admitting that there could be anything bad about it. Whether these "phoney fake extreme versions" are real religions or not in your opinion is irrelevant - these are the religions that we face today by most people's standards, and the "real versions" may have only existed in the past or in some people's minds.

[BoneDog]

I hate religion for the following reasons:

Creating divisions in society via an "us vs. them" / tribe mentality

Teaching fantasy as fact / dogmatism / brainwashing

Impeding the progress of science

Not only do these reasons have something to do with religion, they are are at the very heart of it. Don't get me wrong, I know there are plenty of good, sound people who happen to be religious, and I certainly don't hate anyone because they are religious, but I do hate the ideas and the agenda of organised religion itself. Religion is the problem. It does far more harm than good, and it's totally unnecessary.

I'm not sure how religion has impeded science. There have been countless developments in science thanks to religious people of all religions over the centuries. I still read a few science sites where many people who follow a religion work in advanced sciences. They don't seem to let their religion get in the way of their work.

I also don't think religion teaches fantasy as fact, but I don't really want to get into that at the mo! There is much in all the books that is historical fact and much about how best to live your life.

I also don't think that religion creates divides in society. I believe that politics, terrorism and other factors do that. I've read many books by true religious people from different religions and they all get on with the other religions and with non religious people. And in the examples I gave earlier of large parts of history, Christians, Muslims, Jews and others got along in peace living together. Always until tyrants come along and use force to impose their will. Tyrants are not religious, whatever they claim.

I do agree with you to a large extent. However, it's the good people who would be good whether they're religious or not. I'm convinced there are religious people who commit atrocities who wouldn't have if it weren't for the religion affecting their brains. I can't think of one good thing religion has ever offered mankind. I can think of plenty of disgusting things.

Agreed there are good people of all ilks, religious or not. Most people all around the world will be good people regardless of religion.

As for the atrocities, I believe that they would still happen without religion. Suicide bombings for example, are nothing to do with religion. They are likely, in most cases, caused by people's minds being bent by seeing close family or neighbours being killed in horrible war situations that most of us over here (barring soldiers and a few others) know nothing about. And in some cases there is plenty of evidence to suggest dodgy elements of intelligence agencies involvement.

I have seen some of those videos on the news that are supposed suicide bombers holding Qurans giving a last message and I believe some of them to be saying their words against their will. I would say some of them have been mentally affected by some trauma and some of them are being held hostage and are forced to do what they do. Whatever their situation, what they are doing is certainly not Islamic.

This is the "No True Scotsman" logical fallacy. You're defining religion how you want it to be, rather than admitting that there could be anything bad about it. Whether these "phoney fake extreme versions" are real religions or not in your opinion is irrelevant - these are the religions that we face today by most people's standards, and the "real versions" may have only existed in the past or in some people's minds.

The real versions didn't only exist in the past. They still exist today all around the world. We just see and hear about the extreme lads because all they are doing is causing trouble. I still stand by the fact that the extremists are not following their supposed religion at all and I wouldn't associate them with religion myself so we'll have to disagree on that!

[FoxyPV]

I'm not sure how religion has impeded science. There have been countless developments in science thanks to religious people of all religions over the centuries. I still read a few science sites where many people who follow a religion work in advanced sciences. They don't seem to let their religion get in the way of their work.

I also don't think religion teaches fantasy as fact, but I don't really want to get into that at the mo! There is much in all the books that is historical fact and much about how best to live your life.

Christianity epsecially has a long history of impeding scientific research from before Gallileo to modern day refusal to teach evolution and rejection of stem cell research. I know Islam was at the very forefront of science in the c13th but couldn't tell you about it now.

The belief that the world was created in seven days is up there with flights of fancy

I also don't think that religion creates divides in society. I believe that politics, terrorism and other factors do that. I've read many books by true religious people from different religions and they all get on with the other religions and with non religious people. And in the examples I gave earlier of large parts of history, Christians, Muslims, Jews and others got along in peace living together. Always until tyrants come along and use force to impose their will. Tyrants are not religious, whatever they claim.

Again . The terms "gentile" "infidel" and "unbeliever" would strongly indicate towards an "us and them" attitude rather than this all inclusive attitude to which you are inferrring. True religious people are few and far between, most people I know and have met use religion as shroud of moral superiority or as a means of defining themselves.

Agreed there are good people of all ilks, religious or not. Most people all around the world will be good people regardless of religion.

As for the atrocities, I believe that they would still happen without religion. Suicide bombings for example, are nothing to do with religion. They are likely, in most cases, caused by people's minds being bent by seeing close family or neighbours being killed in horrible war situations that most of us over here (barring soldiers and a few others) know nothing about. And in some cases there is plenty of evidence to suggest dodgy elements of intelligence agencies involvement.

I have seen some of those videos on the news that are supposed suicide bombers holding Qurans giving a last message and I believe some of them to be saying their words against their will. I would say some of them have been mentally affected by some trauma and some of them are being held hostage and are forced to do what they do. Whatever their situation, what they are doing is certainly not Islamic.

Contradiction. They may well not be religious but they are using religion to justify their actions.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

Islamic extremists, are the biggest cancer in this world.

I agree that they are not alone, merely people trying to enslave free thinking humans into their beliefs, no matter who, or how many innocent people die in the process.

Of course, the pathos and evil they harness will never succeed, thank God.

[Daggers]

Islamic extremists, are the biggest cancer in this world.

The biggest?

Bush&Bush&Blair et al - the Christians - seem to have done a good job at proving themselves cvnts.

Israel and the American Jewish lobby?

Not to forget the lovely Christians like this lot:

[Trav Le Bleu]

Didn't she marry Denis?

[Guest Bilo]

The Christian right in America are huge supporters of Israel too, as part of Biblical teaching is that the Second Coming can only occur when the Jews are residing the Promised Land. The power of the Jewish lobby is disproportionate to the size of the Jewish community, but still small compared to the enormous power of Christian lobbyists.

[Rincewind]

It's the Reason Rally next week in America. There are a few like the Westboro Church who will try and disrupt it but there is good backing for the Rally with many well known people attending. Also music and speeches. Should be a good event. Don't know how much coverage it will get in the UK though.

[acooling08]

I'm not sure how religion has impeded science.

What about all the Catholic Church did to scientists 400 years ago who were trying to enlighten the world with theories on astronomy? Hardly revelant now I know but it's a big example from the past. I believe one italian was burned at the stake around 1600 for something similar..

Still now religious groups are trying to prevent stem cell research and embryo research etc that could help advance medicine massively.

[BoneDog]

Christianity epsecially has a long history of impeding scientific research from before Gallileo to modern day refusal to teach evolution and rejection of stem cell research. I know Islam was at the very forefront of science in the c13th but couldn't tell you about it now.

The belief that the world was created in seven days is up there with flights of fancy

The only people I've heard of in Christianity impeding science were persecutors of others, so in other words, not Christians. I've said that I don't support those fake Christians. I'd like somebody to find me something in any of Jesus' words (even with all the modern changes) that prohibit any scientific research. I don't think there is anything. As for Islam, I know that The Quran encourages people to try and gain knowledge of all kinds and encourages scientific thinking and action.

If a Christian says that everything was Created in 7 days then they should read their book more. 7 days is referring to 'heavenly days' and not earth days. A heavenly day is 1000 earth years in Christianity - which would equal 7000 years, not 7 days - it is mentioned in The Bible but some Christians don't seem to know by the sounds of it. The planet has been constantly changing since those days but none of us can say whether it took 7000 years for it all to get started or not. Our scientists don't have much of a clue about the beginning, obviously, so nobody can argue that the statement is wrong or right, we just don't know.

On a side note, we don't even know which parts of The Bible and Old Testament can be trusted anyway. All sorts of gobbledeegook has been added. Shortly after Solomon died (3000'ish years ago), The Torah/Old Testament started being tampered with, verses were removed and added by corrupt priests and kings (for their own ends i.e controlling people) over centuries, and it has been totally overhauled and rewritten many times since those days. Only a few in this day and age still know and study the real texts of The Torah and that is where the 7 day story comes from.

Again . The terms "gentile" "infidel" and "unbeliever" would strongly indicate towards an "us and them" attitude rather than this all inclusive attitude to which you are inferrring. True religious people are few and far between, most people I know and have met use religion as shroud of moral superiority or as a means of defining themselves.

None of the religious people I know are arrogant or superior acting. The opposite is true. From the sounds of the people you describe meeting, you should tell them to read their books again and to stop acting like tits. And if they only do it for a label tell them they might aswell jack it in because they are missing the point and obviously have no faith.

I don't see what's wrong with the word infidel. It just means/describes a person who has no belief in God. Extremists may take it to another level in their actions but they are not religious people. Muhammad warned his followers of these people, "khawarij" he called them and said this - "They are the losers, those who make the religion hard and tough. They imperil themselves who enforce tough practices of religion. They destroy themselves, those who are extremes."

Just to enforce that point, straight from The Quran :

Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error… [2:256]

"Say - 'It is truth from the Lord of all. Whosoever will, let him believe, and whosoever will, let him disbelieve." [18:29]

If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! Wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe![10:99]

If people read those verses carefully the message is as clear as day. If you see or hear of some people oppressing and forcing their religion on others then they are not Muslims. They are phoneys. The same can be said of extremists from all religions. They are all phoneys, lackeys and shills.

Contradiction. They may well not be religious but they are using religion to justify their actions.

So we are agreed that they are not religious? That's one of the main points of my arguement. Why hate the religion when these people are not following the religion? There is no contradiction in what I wrote. I said that these people (suicide bombers) are either highly unstable because of what they've been through and seen or are being coerced or thirdly are just plain thick idiots. I said that they are not following their books rules, which is true.