The Owners, Their Money and Their Ambition

[Captain...]

Can I flip that around and ask what you think they have done right?

They have invested in infrastructure, such as trainging ground and facilities at the club, which shows they are interested in more than just what happens on the pitch, they have set up programs for coaching young talent from Asia and raised our profile in Asia so we may be able to attract some Asian talent and sponsorship, they have raised the profile of the club here and abroad. Of course these weren't altruistic acts, it is also about raising our profile to then raise their profile, unfortunately this has had a knock on effect of raising expectations.

On the footballing side they have backed the manager with buying the players they want, and they have not intereferred with the playing side, which I think is the most important thing, they have handled themselves professionally and done nothing to tarnish the clubs reputation (aprt from by not being English), compared to Mandy they are perfect.

They have made one big decision, and that was to get rid of Sven, I supported it then and I support it now, whether NP was the right man for the job I don't know but he was probably the best option of what we had available to chose from and NP's record stacks up with Sven's but he has trimmed the wage bill and brought in young prospects who could be Leicester players for years to come without spending the earth to do so. I hope the owners buy into the slow and steady philosophy to reach the premiership, and give Pearson more time to do his job.

I wouldn't read into the financial side of things, they have a lot of money tied up with this club in loans, if they pull out and we go into administration they will lose that money, if they sell it to someone willing to take on the loans then fair enough, but the best way for them to get their money back is to get us into the premiership and keep us there.

[Daggers]

I worry because the owners have gambled the future of the club with a strategy that gives the impression they don't know what they are doing.

It lends that impression because, for the most part, they don't have the first clue what they are doing.

[whitwickfox]

They may not be too conversant with football, but football is a business, and the tops have amassed over £5billion in business, so to say they don't know what they are doing is a little misplaced. I'm sure the £30million loses will eventually be written off against tax on profits.

Like any business, if you want to be the best, then you have to be prepared to speculate.

All good business people take falls,but always get back up again. I don't for one minute think they will walk away, as that is failure in its self.

[Happy Fox]

I know this may be cynical but do the Thais want out?

[HEGGSY]

<p>

I know this may be cynical but do the Thais want out?

What gives you that idea?

[Happy Fox]

<p>

What gives you that idea?

The OP of Bentleys take it with a pinch of salt, but interesting nontheless

http://fansonline.net/leicestercity/mb/view.php?id=506441

[Guest ttfn]

They have invested in infrastructure, such as trainging ground and facilities at the club, which shows they are interested in more than just what happens on the pitch, they have set up programs for coaching young talent from Asia and raised our profile in Asia so we may be able to attract some Asian talent and sponsorship, they have raised the profile of the club here and abroad. Of course these weren't altruistic acts, it is also about raising our profile to then raise their profile, unfortunately this has had a knock on effect of raising expectations.

On the footballing side they have backed the manager with buying the players they want, and they have not intereferred with the playing side, which I think is the most important thing, they have handled themselves professionally and done nothing to tarnish the clubs reputation (aprt from by not being English), compared to Mandy they are perfect.

They have made one big decision, and that was to get rid of Sven, I supported it then and I support it now, whether NP was the right man for the job I don't know but he was probably the best option of what we had available to chose from and NP's record stacks up with Sven's but he has trimmed the wage bill and brought in young prospects who could be Leicester players for years to come without spending the earth to do so. I hope the owners buy into the slow and steady philosophy to reach the premiership, and give Pearson more time to do his job.

I wouldn't read into the financial side of things, they have a lot of money tied up with this club in loans, if they pull out and we go into administration they will lose that money, if they sell it to someone willing to take on the loans then fair enough, but the best way for them to get their money back is to get us into the premiership and keep us there.

Always nice to hear from Susan Whelan on this forum.

[Out Foxed]

they'll at least have one more pop

shrapnel can't be whelan there was no "errmmms"

[Daggers]

the tops have amassed over £5billion in business

Before I pull the rest of the post apart, would you care to cite the source for this figure?

[James.]

They have invested in infrastructure, such as training ground and facilities at the club, which shows they are interested in more than just what happens on the pitch, they have set up programs for coaching young talent from Asia and raised our profile in Asia so we may be able to attract some Asian talent and sponsorship, they have raised the profile of the club here and abroad. Of course these weren't altruistic acts, it is also about raising our profile to then raise their profile, unfortunately this has had a knock on effect of raising expectations.

I give them credit for the training ground but the rest regarding promoting the club abroad is just a superficial marketing exercise. It looks nice and people get all excited about having a few fans in Thailand but ultimately we're a mediocre Championship club so the actual impact of this is going to be very limited. For me this is exactly the sort of thing that blinds people to the real problems.

On the footballing side they have backed the manager with buying the players they want, and they have not interfered with the playing side, which I think is the most important thing, they have handled themselves professionally and done nothing to tarnish the clubs reputation (apart from by not being English), compared to Mandy they are perfect.

This just feels like you are clutching at straws. I don't see why we should congratulate the owners for not tarnishing the club's reputation, that should be an absolute minimum expectation. I don't go to bed at night and congratulate myself for making it through a day without killing someone. God help us if we judge owners against a benchmark of Milan Mandaric!

And you say they haven't interfered with the playing side but it is down to the board to dictate the overall strategy of the club of which two of the most important aspects are player salaries and transfer budget. If the owners just gave Sven carte blanche on this then it comes back to my earlier point about being naive and reckless. They should have recognised that this approach rarely works, particularly in the Championship - but then again why would they know, their expertise lies in selling stuff in Thai airports...

They have made one big decision, and that was to get rid of Sven, I supported it then and I support it now, whether NP was the right man for the job I don't know but he was probably the best option of what we had available to chose from and NP's record stacks up with Sven's but he has trimmed the wage bill and brought in young prospects who could be Leicester players for years to come without spending the earth to do so. I hope the owners buy into the slow and steady philosophy to reach the premiership, and give Pearson more time to do his job.

Your last sentence pretty much sums up my concern. It's the owners that should be implementing that strategy not discovering it through trial and error. Why wasn't this the strategy to begin with? Why the sudden change of approach? How many more mistakes are they going to make? What damage has already been done financially as a result of inflated fees and wages?

I wouldn't read into the financial side of things, they have a lot of money tied up with this club in loans, if they pull out and we go into administration they will lose that money, if they sell it to someone willing to take on the loans then fair enough, but the best way for them to get their money back is to get us into the premiership and keep us there.

I've seen a few people on here say stuff like "just enjoy the ride", "don't worry about the finances", "don't question the owners", etc etc - are you advocating that approach with your bit in bold?

In any case I'm not convinced by your argument. I'm not an expert but if they pull out the club will owe King Power a lot of money which the administrator will be obliged to repay as well as possible - that means selling assets, right? They will only lose out on what they don't manage to claw back from the administrator.

I've no doubt that they want us in the Premiership and that is the best way to earn on a return on their investment but every season that doesn't happen and every season they botch the club strategy the further away that gets and the more perilous our outlook becomes.

[reynard]

I'm not entirely sure I buy into this "let's blame the owners" scenario.

As far as I can tell there are basically two approaches they could take. The first, which they have and are still trying, is a sort of quick fix by which I mean spending big in an attempt to reach the premier league. This seems to have failed.

The second is to build slowly. Not spending much money on player and hoping to gel a team together with bargains, loan players and bringing through the youth prospects.

Both are in essence a gamble. The first has the failings we have seen this season. The second though is not really much of an option for any serious owners unless they are Jack Walker types with a true love of the club and are doing it for altruistic reasons. To try and build a side over a number of years whilst consistently losing several million pounds each season is simply not a proposition most modern investors would contemplate. Also how patient would fans be?

So we can blame the owners for appointing the wrong managers, we can blame them for spending a large sum of their own money on what have turned out to be the wrong players but ultimately there are so many other problems not only within the club but also within the game that make life difficult for them.

The financial structure of modern football is now so distorted that a single season in the premier league every four years would make a club like us a great business. Until this distortion is sorted out, and it is unlikely that it ever will be, then the dream and desire of all owners of clubs like ours will be the premier league because without these wealthy owners clubs like ours are not really sustainable at the current debt levels. So what are the choices facing owners like ours? Persoanlly for their model to work spending is the only real option.

Then what about the club itself.

The players have not been good enough.

The management teams have not been good enough.

Do we raise enough money from sponsorship etc etc/

Does out academy really produce the goods? In 2007 we won the youth premiership titles. Those players should now be a central part of our team but like so many youth players they just have not made the grade.

What about our scouting network???

Sorry the owners are an east target. They might not be blameless but in my opinion there are other things and personnel around the club which need to be questioned first.

[Happy Fox]

Here is a post of Bentleys that I read and I thought it was quite interesting

http://fansonline.net/leicestercity/mb/view.php?id=506689

ok, these summer 'rumors' have me intrigued.

the thais and liquidation

-------------------------

However little the Thais know about footy, like the mof, they know business that's how they made their money in the first place.

however much money they've put into the club, that vast majority of it will be in the form of loans.

Going into the deal, they must've been given a magic number that is a worst case scenario (like any gambler at a casino). if it all goes tits up, how much are you prepared to lose, cut your losses and get out of dodge.

to get out they would have two options, sell the club as a going concern, or liquidate (administration).

unlike scotland, england has a preferred creditor rule, so presumably the shell corporation that loaned the club the money will be footie related.

so lets say the club is worth 30 mill and there's 30 mill of outstanding debt owed to them (in the form of loans).

option a - sugar daddy comes in buys the club for 60 mill and pays 'em off in full right away. obviously anybody who does this will have to have their head examined if we're outside the epl, but it could happen.

option b - sell the club for 30 million and keep the iou's open, if the club get promoted call in the loan.

option c - call in the loan to force admin/liquidation. as probably the no 1 preferred creditor (like at pimpey), the Thais would get first choice at asset stripping the club.

any venture capitalist (and that is what most of the investors are, hoping to cash in on promotion to epl) would have this magic number of money they can afford to have tied up for 3-5 years (the time on average a venture capital company will sit on an investment waiting for a return). what they can't afford is to give an endless supply of cash to a club with no hope of returning it.

so difficult choice for them, yes, but impossible no. and like i say if they are half the businessmen i think they are (they have made a big wad of cash in the first place to be able to afford the club) they will have a planned escape route.

derby and the state of footie today

-----------------------------------

if the rumors about derby are true, i believe that is a brave and noble move that can only benefit footie in the long term. clubs need local owners with ties to the community and local businesses. shunning the get promoted at all costs might mean mid to lower league mediocrity, but it also might reignite english football to get back to developing world class talent, instead of just going to the marketplace all the time.

i think regardless of the uefa funding rules due to come in, if more teams did this and refused to take epl cast-offs on season long loans basically making the champ a reserve league for prem clubs, football might start a slow but steady recovery in the eyes of ordinary fans.

one of the things i think has really hurt the championship in the past 5-10 years is the use of epl fringe players being loaned out to champ clubs. we have basically become a de facto reserve league for the epl clubs, and it means shortsighted owners can get a better team temporarily, at the expense of long term player development. which if they are successful in getting promoted, ultimately comes back to bite you in the ass anyway, as you have to go back to the marketplace to buy quality, as you have used the loan system in lieu of developing your own players. I have grudging admiration for blackpool for not going all out and spending themselves into oblivion when they got promoted.

the path of epl at all costs will not work and will cause more clubs to come a cropper in the future. at some point an epl team will go bust and scudamore et all will not be able to palm it off to the champ like they did with pimpey.

Here's what i'd like to see in the summer. NFP gets shunted, all the big earners get tossed, we get a young and hungry manager with team players coming through the academy and/or other lower league signings. i'd like the chairmen get back to giving managers 3-5 years to build a side (meaning we have to stop all the knee jerk reaction bullsit), and i'll take a drop to div 1 or 2 if that means having a club vs not having one.

i'd take div 1, stability, and a locally owned club that's good for the community over the shambles we have now.

[Captain...]

I give them credit for the training ground but the rest regarding promoting the club abroad is just a superficial marketing exercise. It looks nice and people get all excited about having a few fans in Thailand but ultimately we're a mediocre Championship club so the actual impact of this is going to be very limited. For me this is exactly the sort of thing that blinds people to the real problems.

Raising the profile increases our ability to attract players and sponsors.

This just feels like you are clutching at straws. I don't see why we should congratulate the owners for not tarnishing the club's reputation, that should be an absolute minimum expectation. I don't go to bed at night and congratulate myself for making it through a day without killing someone. God help us if we judge owners against a benchmark of Milan Mandaric!

It is not clutching at straws, it is a fact one of which is not true of all owners in football, may not be the most important thing, but if the reverse was true then we would have a right to complain.

And you say they haven't interfered with the playing side but it is down to the board to dictate the overall strategy of the club of which two of the most important aspects are player salaries and transfer budget. If the owners just gave Sven carte blanche on this then it comes back to my earlier point about being naive and reckless. They should have recognised that this approach rarely works, particularly in the Championship - but then again why would they know, their expertise lies in selling stuff in Thai airports...

I don't see that as criticism, naivety, maybe, or a calculated gamble, it is not reckless because they have the money to do so, to turn it around if it had been a successful approach by Sven who would get the plaudits? Sven, and then the owners secondary. The owners are not experts on football, they employed someone they thought was (who we all thought was) and backed him. I can't criticise them for that.

Your last sentence pretty much sums up my concern. It's the owners that should be implementing that strategy not discovering it through trial and error. Why wasn't this the strategy to begin with? Why the sudden change of approach? How many more mistakes are they going to make? What damage has already been done financially as a result of inflated fees and wages?

Because now they have a different expert in and they are backing him, and his approach, whilst also tightening the purse strings, which is sensible.

I've seen a few people on here say stuff like "just enjoy the ride", "don't worry about the finances", "don't question the owners", etc etc - are you advocating that approach with your bit in bold?

I am not saying they are beyond question or reproach, and I think that we should be concerned by how the club is run, but I don't see them doing anything wtrong.

Basically the club needs injections of cash. These need to be loans, they cannot just magic money in from nowhere, that is not how it works. The good news for us is that the loans are from our owners and not from a bank or other financial institution, they can control the loans and manage the repayment from both sides. Rather than a bank which can hold the club to ransom and force us into administration, or by racking debts with third parties.

In any case I'm not convinced by your argument. I'm not an expert but if they pull out the club will owe King Power a lot of money which the administrator will be obliged to repay as well as possible - that means selling assets, right? They will only lose out on what they don't manage to claw back from the administrator.

This is the problem, you are not an expert, neither am I, we are also not privy to the business strategy planning meetings and a full break down of the current financial accounts. I do think a bit of faith in the owners is warranted as they have so far do nothing to make us think they are doing anything wrong. You are right that administration would mean selling assets, but no club in administration has ever paid of all of its debtors in full, so they will stand to lose a lot by us going into administration, it is certainly not in their interests to let that happen. I think the most important thing is that as fans we support the owners until given concrete evidence not to, if we turn on the owners they will b more likely to pull the plug, then we will be in trouble.

[Guest Basildon Fox]

But our Thai owners have already given a financial guarantee for next year so the Auditors were not concerned by the level of debt. There is some proper bullshit made out of nothing. I have no idea whether or not the Thais may want to 'cut their losses' or not but more importantly nor does anyone else.

I have my doubts like many others as to the long term strategy from the owners but as we can do **** all about it what is the point in worrying. If the club was ever liquidated there would be a new pheonix Leicester City that would rise from the ashes, perhaps one that will then live within its means. The club would be back in the big leagues within 5-6 years.

[Karljohn]

Ironically, if the Thais throw rather less money at the Club, we might do a bit better. I think there's little doubt we need players with a bit of hunger in their bones, a hunger to succeed rather than pick up a fat weekly pay cheque. From what I've seen guys like Nugent, Marshall, Danns and Konchesky do have that hunger. Others, like Gallagher, Wellens, Beckford, don't.

You have pretty much nailed it with that, we do have a horrible mix at the moment of primadonnas and hungry players, throw in a couple of good kids and some has beens and thats pretty much LCFC. The likes of Lennon, Izzet, Savage came from nowhere, back then we had hunger in the shape of Cottee, Taggart etc, even in unsuccessful periods we still had players that showed spirit even if their skills fell short. Compare it to a typical workplace, where perhaps you know 2-3 are on more money than you and dont put the work in, it breeds resentment only this conveys to the stands in our case.

Ultimately if the thai's want to piss away their cash then thats their choice, your average LCFC fan doesnt give two hoots about thailand, king power, air asia etc, whether its a branding/marketing mission or they really will stop at nothing to get us to the premier league remains to be seen. But your spot on, because the most successful players at LCFC never cost us more than a million.

[Guy]

Im sure it is dawning on the owners that in football 2 + 2 does not = 4..... that must be hard to adjust to..this is not like any other business .being generous and paying for so called "quality" can be thrown in your face...these so called quality players should apologise to the owners, but they won't, they have let them down big time. im sure the disappointment for the players is cushioned by the massive salaries they have not earned..

Excellently said. I couldn't have put it any better myself - and so I won't attempt to!

[Guy]

Then you clearly no fvck all about business, the same thing happens in business, people pay huge amounts of money for top quality personnel and the best software system, but it can still be managed poorly or be undermined by market forces and lead to "succesful" businesses going under, look at Game. In fact in business you will normally spend years and a lot of money on implementing something new successfully and rushing it can often be costly. What the Thai's won't be used to is fan power. We can make it very easy for them, or very difficult for them, lets hope we make it easy for them by supporting them, without them we are screwed and in my eyes they have done nothing wrong.

As for the original post, I hope the Thai's afford NP the same amount of time as Sven, it is still not his team and he has been hampered by some long term injuries, some dressing room bust ups, some below par performances and some serious ill-discipline which has normally proved costly, not only in the game where it occurs, but also in the subsequent games where they are suspended. To be honest getting promoted now would just lead to an ill-prepared team getting humiliated every week in the prem. We need to build on this season, by making a few quality aquisitions in the summer, get rid of disruptive players and get promotion the correct by playing good football with a good work ethic and a good team spirit, we should be trying to emulate Norwich and Swansea not QPR, to do that we need stability, if we are showing no progress by October/November next season then it could be time to say good-bye to Pearson.

Lets not forget we tore Norwich apart and Southampton and Cardiff,

Let's also not forget that we beat Norwich on their own patch this season too, even if Grant Holt didn't play.....

We might be ill prepared at the mo. to make the gigantic jump to the next level up indeed, especially as Pearson has not had any experience of managing at that level either, only as caretaker manager for a number of weeks at Newcastle.....but chance to find out would perhaps be a fine thing! Then again we didn't fare too badly against one of the high flying packages in the cup this season, as said. We did find our more truer level against Chelsea though perhaps, albeit a fast improving Chelsea and there was an aspect of raising our game on the day, even though we still conceded five! - but I don't think we'd replicate the worst ever season in the Prem. set by the Sheep in 2008 - and might even surprise ourselves by doing a Norwich. Wishful thinking though maybe......

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

Its all very depressing to contemplate, players on fat wages and big contracts not contributing (Mills, Pantsil), players not performing and a manager who is clueless tactically and can't motivate or get the best out of his players. Pearson's negative tactics and poor results will not endear him to the Thais and I fear they could just say enough is enough and pack in. Putting their faith in Sven and being conned by a manager trading on glories last century and wasting a lot of money would have tested their patience. Pursuing Pearson and getting to results since hiring him could push them over the edge. Worrying times, lets hope they get rid of Pearson and get a proper manager in to build a team for next season.

That about sums it up.

[nuttytimmy]

Not sure if anyone's seen/mentioned this, but there's an interesting piece over on Bentley's Roof I've adapted on the Thais and the future...

The Thais, Liquidation, and the State of Football Today.

[Daggers]

...the tops have amassed over £5billion in business

Before I pull the rest of the post apart, would you care to cite the source for this figure?

So, that's a 'no, sorry, I can't substantiate that ludicrous figure' then?

[unreachable]

Not sure if anyone's seen/mentioned this, but there's an interesting piece over on Bentley's Roof I've adapted on the Thais and the future...

The Thais, Liquidation, and the State of Football Today.

The content of this article adds nothing to what has already been written elsewhere.

The relationship between the King Power Group and Asia Football Investments (AFI) is key to the financial position of the club in the future. The quoted article again speculates about the relationship between the Raksriaksorns and AFI. What research have you done into this relationship?

Also, the financial stability of King Power Group needs to be factored into the scenario. How dependent is King Power Group on the political situation in Thailand?