Gary Neville

[Kitchandro]

I think ratboy really let himself down last night. He usually talks a lot of sense but his condoning of diving was laughable.

Personally I don't know how anyone could complain about getting banned for diving. Players are getting 3 match bans for committed, honest, mistimed tackles these days. If you are deliberately trying to cheat and deceive the ref you haven't got a leg to stand on, excuse the pun.

You can't have it both ways. If you're going to call the ref an incompetent twat all the while and complain that he gets decisions wrong, you can't absolve the players from blame when they are purposefully contributing to incorrect decisions. By the same token, if you're going to whinge that the refs have a hard job and need help (with video/goal-line technology etc) how can you be OK with players who are trying to make it difficult for them?

It's shocking to me that 'respected' ex-players and media personnel don't seem to care about fair play in the game. To claim banning players would cause 'anarchy' is ridiculous, it would simply stamp it out. A player would think, hmmm, I don't want to get sent off/miss 3 games, maybe I'll try and score instead of cheating'.

I didn't even understand the bit where he was showing clips of people diving. Beckham could have ran forward and he would either have had a chance to shoot or he would have been actually fouled. But as much as I like Beckham as a bloke, he always did tend to jump out of challenges (a lot worse than Gallagher remember 2002 against Brazil?) Even if he was just expecting the challenge, why did he then claim for the penalty? I fail to see what his point was.

And Messi dives. Yeh Gary, and? I don't care if he's the best player in the world, I don't care if he's God himself, I don't even care if he's Emile Heskey, it's not on and if caught players should be punished. I expect it from Argentines but the amount of British players that dive constantly these days is sickening. It's not 'part of the game' at all, it's cheating and makes you look a prat.

I about pissed myself when he said Gerrard was an honest player Gerrard is hardowrking for his team but he's a serial diver. These players are setting a terrible example regarding sportsmanship for young footballers and are winning unjustly at the end of the day.

If players are going to keep doing it I say straight red and ban them, they'll soon stop doing it.

Anyone else think differently? Some Argentines perhaps

[Corky]

At least he backed up his point with evidence, rather than the usual "it's normally foreigners" that we hear.

[Fox92]

I didn't hear him last night, I had Niall Quinn on commentry for the Arsenal game , but he usually does speak sense. If he does agree with diving, I think he is wrong (is it because it is Manchester United?!).

If I was a player, an honest player, and I see Ashley Young (or whoever) diving and winning a penalty, but I stay on my feet when I should have a penalty and don't get one, why should I stay on my feet next time?

[ScouseFox]

I can't quite remember what he said specifically but I remember agreeing with him. And looking around Twitter everyone else was agreeing too.

I agreed with him every Monday to be honest.

[AdamN]

For anyone who hasn't seen it: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xq65vw_gary-neville-tells-it-like-it-is-on-diving_sport

He does speak some sense to be fair. I think the problem, as he says, is the fact that if you don't go down, you rarely get the decision. Perhaps referees should be told to stamp down on the niggly little fouls that players think they can get away with - shirt pulling, pushing around on set pieces, obstruction etc, and maybe they'd eventually learn to stop doing it. That might reduce the urge to dive if the player thinks they will get the decision, regardless of how convicing their Tom Daley impression is.

Obviously I'm not condoning blatent diving, but Neville does put some good points across about the mentality of players and their supposed need to do it.

[Haydos]

I think ratboy really let himself down last night. He usually talks a lot of sense but his condoning of diving was laughable.

Personally I don't know how anyone could complain about getting banned for diving. Players are getting 3 match bans for committed, honest, mistimed tackles these days. If you are deliberately trying to cheat and deceive the ref you haven't got a leg to stand on, excuse the pun.

You can't have it both ways. If you're going to call the ref an incompetent twat all the while and complain that he gets decisions wrong, you can't absolve the players from blame when they are purposefully contributing to incorrect decisions. By the same token, if you're going to whinge that the refs have a hard job and need help (with video/goal-line technology etc) how can you be OK with players who are trying to make it difficult for them?

It's shocking to me that 'respected' ex-players and media personnel don't seem to care about fair play in the game. To claim banning players would cause 'anarchy' is ridiculous, it would simply stamp it out. A player would think, hmmm, I don't want to get sent off/miss 3 games, maybe I'll try and score instead of cheating'.

I didn't even understand the bit where he was showing clips of people diving. Beckham could have ran forward and he would either have had a chance to shoot or he would have been actually fouled. But as much as I like Beckham as a bloke, he always did tend to jump out of challenges (a lot worse than Gallagher remember 2002 against Brazil?) Even if he was just expecting the challenge, why did he then claim for the penalty? I fail to see what his point was.

And Messi dives. Yeh Gary, and? I don't care if he's the best player in the world, I don't care if he's God himself, I don't even care if he's Emile Heskey, it's not on and if caught players should be punished. I expect it from Argentines but the amount of British players that dive constantly these days is sickening. It's not 'part of the game' at all, it's cheating and makes you look a prat.

I about pissed myself when he said Gerrard was an honest player Gerrard is hardowrking for his team but he's a serial diver. These players are setting a terrible example regarding sportsmanship for young footballers and are winning unjustly at the end of the day.

If players are going to keep doing it I say straight red and ban them, they'll soon stop doing it.

Anyone else think differently? Some Argentines perhaps

Did you actually listen to him? He wasn't condoning it, he was saying it was an epidemic and he's right.

And regarding banning players for it...it would be the same as giving penalties every time a player was pulled back on a corner, it just wouldn't work.

[purpleronnie]

I can't quite remember what he said specifically but I remember agreeing with him. And looking around Twitter everyone else was agreeing too.

I agreed with him every Monday to be honest.

Well if a load of twits say he's right then thats me convinced.

[Kitchandro]

Did you actually listen to him? He wasn't condoning it, he was saying it was an epidemic and he's right.

And regarding banning players for it...it would be the same as giving penalties every time a player was pulled back on a corner, it just wouldn't work.

How is it the same as that? And they should do that too anyway. The only problem with that is that there could be a number of offences from different players at each corner, you don't have that with diving.

There's a difference between petty fouling and blatantly trying to con the ref.

He was very much condoning it, saying he used to dive, everyone does it and he doesn't consider them cheats.

How would it not work? It's very simple, if you're caught diving, you get banned. Players will learn and think twice. It's not as if you can dive by accident, players know what they're doing so why should they get any leniency or sympathy?

[Kitchandro]

For anyone who hasn't seen it: http://www.dailymoti...on-diving_sport

He does speak some sense to be fair. I think the problem, as he says, is the fact that if you don't go down, you rarely get the decision. Perhaps referees should be told to stamp down on the niggly little fouls that players think they can get away with - shirt pulling, pushing around on set pieces, obstruction etc, and maybe they'd eventually learn to stop doing it. That might reduce the urge to dive if the player thinks they will get the decision, regardless of how convicing their Tom Daley impression is.

Obviously I'm not condoning blatent diving, but Neville does put some good points across about the mentality of players and their supposed need to do it.

It's one thing to say the referee isn't doing his job. But how does trying to decieve him solve that issue? It's no excuse.

[Haydos]

How is it the same as that? And they should do that too anyway. The only problem with that is that there could be a number of offences from different players at each corner, you don't have that with diving.

There's a difference between petty fouling and blatantly trying to con the ref.

He was very much condoning it, saying he used to dive, everyone does it and he doesn't consider them cheats.

How would it not work? It's very simple, if you're caught diving, you get banned. Players will learn and think twice. It's not as if you can dive by accident, players know what they're doing so why should they get any leniency or sympathy?

Banning two footed tackles doesn't seem to have had any effect, nobody seems to be 'learning and thinking twice'. Why would it be any different with diving?

I kind of agree with him and don't think he was condoning it. He was criticising the way they do it, the way they try and sell a challenge to the ref. Like he was saying, most of them were still penalties but they're exaggerated by the players because without that they know they might not be awarded the decision.

It's the same as that because it happens 10's of times a game. Players sell challenges to the ref all the time, you really think that all these challenges actually take the player off both their feet?

He's trying to help you understand the mindset of the players and what the referees see. I very much understand why it could come across like he was condoning it but I believe he was trying to explain how not straight forward it is (which you're arguing it is). Personally I think referees need to learn to recognise the difference between a natural fall and a clearly exaggerated fall. When it comes to punishing players, would they punish Ashley Young? I think it was a penalty and so do many so why would he be punished? Because people think he didn't fall down properly? Without a rethink of some rules this doesn't have any legs.

[Donut]

Its actually hard to conclusively prove a player has dived

[Kitchandro]

Banning two footed tackles doesn't seem to have had any effect, nobody seems to be 'learning and thinking twice'. Why would it be any different with diving?

I kind of agree with him and don't think he was condoning it. He was criticising the way they do it, the way they try and sell a challenge to the ref. Like he was saying, most of them were still penalties but they're exaggerated by the players because without that they know they might not be awarded the decision.

It's the same as that because it happens 10's of times a game. Players sell challenges to the ref all the time, you really think that all these challenges actually take the player off both their feet?

He's trying to help you understand the mindset of the players and what the referees see. I very much understand why it could come across like he was condoning it but I believe he was trying to explain how not straight forward it is (which you're arguing it is). Personally I think referees need to learn to recognise the difference between a natural fall and a clearly exaggerated fall. When it comes to punishing players, would they punish Ashley Young? I think it was a penalty and so do many so why would he be punished? Because people think he didn't fall down properly? Without a rethink of some rules this doesn't have any legs.

As far as I'm aware the two-footed thing isn't a rule. But point taken to some extent. In any case, I don't really care, if cheats keep getting banned instead of learning then so be it.

Diving is diving, regardless of whether you think the contact warrants a penalty. Some of the clips he showed were of blatant dives which should never have been penalties and he was trying to defend the players.

I don't see your point. I don't want to see players diving every game. If they get sent off every time they dive, that's their problem. I would rather that than be robbed of the points by diving.

How was the Ashley Young one a penalty? He stood on his foot and threw himself over. Anyway, if it's not clear cut then obviously you can't punish players. You could split hairs on every decision in every match but as you say, referees need to know the difference between a natural fall and a dive or an 'exaggerated fall', and there are plenty of instances where it's obvious, though it can be harder to tell in real time, which is why they review certain instances in the first place.

Even if he wasn't condoning it, he was trying to sympathise with players that dive, rather than those who were cheated (the players who had supposedly committed the foul). That way of looking at it is completely missing the issue with diving. He was essentially blaming poor referees for tempting people to dive.

[Kitchandro]

Its actually hard to conclusively prove a player has dived

It's hard to conclusively prove a lot of things. Everything, in fact. But you can prove a lot of things beyond reasonable doubt.

We all know Suarez was being a racist but how could they prove it? By that logic it's hard to conclusively prove there are any fouls at all.

[Donut]

It's hard to conclusively prove a lot of things. Everything, in fact. But you can prove a lot of things beyond reasonable doubt.

We all know Suarez was being a racist but how could they prove it? By that logic it's hard to conclusively prove there are any fouls at all.

No i meant that in any given situation, we dont know how much contact was needed to send a player over.

If a player is contacted sufficiently in the box, its still a foul, whether its a theatrical fall or not.

The only situation you could ban a player, in my opinion would be a dive so blatantly obvious, and if it was that obvious, the referee would probably deal with it there and then

[Tielemans63]

You can't trust a guy who has that much in the bank and still has greasy lank hair. It's not right.

[Guesty]

I didn't pay attention to all of it but when he says if you don't go down you won't get the peno, he's right. All the commentators are moaning now, but I've herd loads of them say in the past "he should have gone down there, he'd have got the peno."

Now they all moan because people dive and they act holier than thou. I appreciate that Neville trys to be honest instead of just going the easy route and saying, it's wrong it should be banned.

I do think the only way to fix it is 3 game bans and would welcome that. But the FA would never do that because they're guttless cowards. It would be on their decision, sometimes there's contact but players go down easy, at what point is there enough contact to warrent the peno? The FA would never have the balls to be the decision makers when they can just let the refs take all the flak.

[RonnieTodger]

No i meant that in any given situation, we dont know how much contact was needed to send a player over.

If a player is contacted sufficiently in the box, its still a foul, whether its a theatrical fall or not.

The only situation you could ban a player, in my opinion would be a dive so blatantly obvious, and if it was that obvious, the referee would probably deal with it there and then

That's where the video ref should come in and be bold enough to make a decision. It's just common sense on most occasions and perhaps a lot of the time unless they're 100% they dived, they won't get booked. That said, at least they won't get a penalty which is more important.

We all know Ashley Young dived at the weekend but there was contact, much like when Beausajor took it upon himself to leap into the air and back down from the slightest brush of his sock when we played Birmingham in October. They'll need to be bold to make it work but I'm sick of it, especially when English players do it.