Ched Evans found guilty

[Guesty]

EDIT: More worryingly, was it the first time this has happened? Wonder if tgere will be any other girls that come out of the woods now the trial is over. [That was the quote i was replying to.]

Could happen, they say a lot of rapes go unreported with women (but some men) either too embarassed or scared. Especially if it's just one drunk persons word against the other it's hard to convict. Plus, I can't remember what the conviction rate is on rape but I think it's lower than you'd expect, or at least that's what I remember thinking when I saw it a while ago, think it was a round 50%, but some myths say its lower than that.

[21st Century Fox]

I did that as a pisstake.

Phew, I thought we had two lobotomy cases in here.

[21st Century Fox]

But she has no recollection of consenting to either, just because she got in a taxi and went to a hotel room with him, doesn't mean she gave consent, it is impossible to prove either way and I fear that Evans has been found guilty because his behaviour comes across as a lot more sordid and unpleasant than McDonald, but in essence they did exactly the same thing, had sex with a girl that was too drunk to remember. There has been no talk of DNA evidence so the only way they could know that Evans had sex with her is if he/they admitted it, which you wouldn't do if you believed you had raped someone. Again that doesn't mean that they didn't but just that in their intoxicated state and the day after they didn't see anything wrong with their actions.

The only thing that should have been able to convict Evans over McDonald is the video footage taken by his mates, but there is no mention of this footage being shown in the court.

It's very difficult to get the whole gist of it from a couple of paragraphs. The jury would have had to have been fairly convinced to have come up with a verdict and a split verdict at that, which would assume there's more to it. But the logic of McDonald having reasonable belief in consent from her actions prior to entering the hotel and her complete lack of knowledge as to Evan's evening being there, seems to hold water.

[Captain...]

A hotel receptionist described the woman, who was 19 at the time and worked in a restaurant, as "extremely drunk" and said she was stumbling and slurring and occasionally grabbing hold of Mr McDonald to steady herself.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-east-wales-17677969

This is the most damming piece of evidence I have read, but if the law is she was too drunk to consent so it is rape then it has to applied to both of them. I am still uncomfortable at that law though, it basically requires no evidence other than proof that she was drunk when you had sex to get a conviction.

[Guest Basildon Fox]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-east-wales-17677969

This is the most damming piece of evidence I have read, but if the law is she was too drunk to consent so it is rape then it has to applied to both of them. I am still uncomfortable at that law though, it basically requires no evidence other than proof that she was drunk when you had sex to get a conviction.

Then perhaps there are other circumstances that have not been reported...

[Captain...]

It's very difficult to get the whole gist of it from a couple of paragraphs. The jury would have had to have been fairly convinced to have come up with a verdict and a split verdict at that, which would assume there's more to it. But the logic of McDonald having reasonable belief in consent from her actions prior to entering the hotel and her complete lack of knowledge as to Evan's evening being there, seems to hold water.

But the evidence seems to be this:

What happened?:

Evans: I entered the room, my mate asked her if I could join in, and she said yes, I didn't do anything immediately, then a few minutes later she asked me to "perform a sexual act" on her, so I did, then my mate left, I had sex with her then left.

Her: I don't remember

Did you have sex?:

Evans: Yes

Her: I don't remember

Was their consent?:

Evans: Yes

McDonald: Yes

Her: I don't remember

I just don't see how that is enough to convict someone, I understand rape is horrible, and too many people get away with it, but I also don't think any should be convicted with so little evidence, especially if she was considered of sound enough mind to have consented earlier to McDonald, which she also didn't remember, if she remembered meeting McDonald, if she remembered going back with him and wanting to have sex with him, but had no recollection of sleeping with Evans then I would accept that, but she didn't. If her behaviour in the taxi and in the hotel was enough to suggest she was willing to have sex with a man she just met, how can it then not be possible that she consented to have sex with another man she just met.

[ThurnbyLodgeFox]

something isn't letting me believe this, doesn't seem like something he would do..... maybe I'm wrong but I find it hard to believe

[StanSP]

something isn't letting me believe this, doesn't seem like something he would do..... maybe I'm wrong but I find it hard to believe

Do you know him personally, then?

[THEFATBASTARD]

But the evidence seems to be this:

What happened?:

Evans: I entered the room, my mate asked her if I could join in, and she said yes, I didn't do anything immediately, then a few minutes later she asked me to "perform a sexual act" on her, so I did, then my mate left, I had sex with her then left.

Her: I don't remember

Did you have sex?:

Evans: Yes

Her: I don't remember

Was their consent?:

Evans: Yes

McDonald: Yes

Her: I don't remember

I just don't see how that is enough to convict someone, I understand rape is horrible, and too many people get away with it, but I also don't think any should be convicted with so little evidence, especially if she was considered of sound enough mind to have consented earlier to McDonald, which she also didn't remember, if she remembered meeting McDonald, if she remembered going back with him and wanting to have sex with him, but had no recollection of sleeping with Evans then I would accept that, but she didn't. If her behaviour in the taxi and in the hotel was enough to suggest she was willing to have sex with a man she just met, how can it then not be possible that she consented to have sex with another man she just met.

we cannot re try the case on here, twelve people with no axe to grind heard ALL the facts and agreed he is a rapist... having heard all the legal arguments...

[Milton Keynes Fox]

something isn't letting me believe this, doesn't seem like something he would do..... maybe I'm wrong but I find it hard to believe

you best mates then?

[ADK]

So if you got man raped when drunk by a couple of blokes bigger than you it would be your fault?

Try thinking.

If i'd consented to it, would it be rape?

I don't like the notion that someone cannot give consent becasue they voluntarily got themselves intoxicated.

[Milton Keynes Fox]

But the evidence seems to be this:

What happened?:

Evans: I entered the room, my mate asked her if I could join in, and she said yes, I didn't do anything immediately, then a few minutes later she asked me to "perform a sexual act" on her, so I did, then my mate left, I had sex with her then left.

Her: I don't remember

Did you have sex?:

Evans: Yes

Her: I don't remember

Was their consent?:

Evans: Yes

McDonald: Yes

Her: I don't remember

I just don't see how that is enough to convict someone, I understand rape is horrible, and too many people get away with it, but I also don't think any should be convicted with so little evidence, especially if she was considered of sound enough mind to have consented earlier to McDonald, which she also didn't remember, if she remembered meeting McDonald, if she remembered going back with him and wanting to have sex with him, but had no recollection of sleeping with Evans then I would accept that, but she didn't. If her behaviour in the taxi and in the hotel was enough to suggest she was willing to have sex with a man she just met, how can it then not be possible that she consented to have sex with another man she just met.

Correct, based on this i don't think he can be guilty.

[Guest shearfox]

she can't remember, she obviously got herself into a mess, enough to convict someone and ruin their career seems so...

[ThurnbyLodgeFox]

Do you know him personally, then?

no, but why would 2 people say she gave consent and then the girl, who was pissed out her mind (who stated she can't remember) say she didn't? the same as his mate got off and he didn't? why would someone who has so much promise, do something so stupid to ruin his career?

[Finnegan]

Cap'n Shrap, you need to stop trying to get your head around it, really, mate.

Been there before. I dated an ultra-feminist a few years ago with an obsession with sexual assault stories in the news. I've had the argument countless times and it's never really easy to work out where you stand.

Best to just try and trust the court's ruling and accept you'll never know.

[Guest Bilo]

Something about this conviction doesn't sit quite right with me, I need to read more about the case before making a full judgement but McDonald walking and Evans going down seems really rather strange. I am ashamed to admit however that I am always somewhat cynical when one of these 'footballer rapist' stories come out, possibly because of our own troubles with the La Manga affair a few years ago.

[THEFATBASTARD]

my god there are some morons on here, if anybody thinks any women would go through the total degradation and humiliation involved in reporting a rape, they clearly have no idea.. its a terrible ordeal, the overwhelming majority of women don't or won't report it...you have demonstrated why..and rapists rely on that...

[foxfanazer]

Good to see he hasn't gotten away with it just because he's a footballer

[Captain...]

Cap'n Shrap, you need to stop trying to get your head around it, really, mate.

Been there before. I dated an ultra-feminist a few years ago with an obsession with sexual assault stories in the news. I've had the argument countless times and it's never really easy to work out where you stand.

Best to just try and trust the court's ruling and accept you'll never know.

I want to try and understand it, and try and get my head around it, I have read every report from everyday on the BBC website, it also said that the court seemed shocked that Evans went down after McDonald was let off, which implies that there was no divide and conquer attempt by McDonalds lawyers, my concern is that Evans was judged more harshly because his actions were more depraved, than McDonald, but it is not about depravit it is about consent, if she couldn't have given it to Evans, how could she have given it to McDonald. The prosceution seemed to be based on the idea she was too drunk to give a valid consent, not that consent wasn't given, which I find very disturbing.

Evans is clearly a bit of a tit, and not only did he sleep with a drunk girl, he also slept with her whilst his mates were filming outside and just after she had fvcked McDonald in a hotel room he had booked for the purpose of picking up girls and all of this whilst having a girlfriend, but that should be irrelevant, it should only be about the consent, and I just don't see the difference between McDonald and Evans in that respect.

Anyway, I'm not going to put any more about it, I have made my point.

[Milton Keynes Fox]

One question: Surely every drunken one night stand CAN be come a POTENTIAL rape?

[ThurnbyLodgeFox]

One question: Surely every drunken one night stand CAN be come a POTENTIAL rape?

This

The likelyhood is Evans will appeal his sentence, if he KNOWS he is innocent

[21st Century Fox]

I want to try and understand it, and try and get my head around it, I have read every report from everyday on the BBC website, it also said that the court seemed shocked that Evans went down after McDonald was let off, which implies that there was no divide and conquer attempt by McDonalds lawyers, my concern is that Evans was judged more harshly because his actions were more depraved, than McDonald, but it is not about depravit it is about consent, if she couldn't have given it to Evans, how could she have given it to McDonald. The prosceution seemed to be based on the idea she was too drunk to give a valid consent, not that consent wasn't given, which I find very disturbing.

Evans is clearly a bit of a tit, and not only did he sleep with a drunk girl, he also slept with her whilst his mates were filming outside and just after she had fvcked McDonald in a hotel room he had booked for the purpose of picking up girls and all of this whilst having a girlfriend, but that should be irrelevant, it should only be about the consent, and I just don't see the difference between McDonald and Evans in that respect.

Anyway, I'm not going to put any more about it, I have made my point.

Probably best to wait until after an appeal to see if more information is released, when any risk of twitter and facebook influencing any future juries has passed.

[Corky]

Good to see he hasn't gotten away with it just because he's a footballer

They don't get away with it because they are footballers, just that the wages they earn can pay for the better lawyers.

[accessory]

Probably best to wait until after an appeal to see if more information is released, when any risk of twitter and facebook influencing any future juries has passed.

Any appeal would be heard by judges, not a jury.

If any blades team-mates have gone online and bad-mouthed the victim, they deserve to be named and shamed as the scumbags they are.

[Captain...]

Any appeal would be heard by judges, not a jury.

If any blades team-mates have gone online and bad-mouthed the victim, they deserve to be named and shamed as the scumbags they are.

Unless it is true, it happened to us in La Manga, and there are other incidents of women crying rape after sleeping with a high profile person (not saying that is the case but, if it is then his team-mates aren't scum bags, if it isn't then they are scumbags).