Under 25s could lose housing benefit - Cameron

[Webbo]

Jeebus fooking wept. Webbo I thought you were one of those who might be capable of understanding. Please don't disappoint me with shite like that.

It was just that when Daggers posted his graph proving that Tories eat babies you never questioned his statistics. It seems like the variables you were talking about seem to be whether they agree with your point of view or not.

[sphericalfox]

Variables which only work in one direction?

No. Dependant on the variables there well be a variety of different outcomes. With further knowledge to understand the variables an experienced and relatively unbiased individual should be able to come to a conclusion based this information.

Of course everyone is biased to a certain degree, but there's still no contradiction in what I've stated.

[sphericalfox]

It was just that when Daggers posted his graph proving that Tories eat babies you never questioned his statistics. It seems like the variables you were talking about seem to be whether they agree with your point of view or not.

I didn't read or respond to that graph. But by my lack of a response you are assuming I am in agreement? Even Daggers will agree that statistics are to read by whichever way the reader chooses or biased towards. However, an person with more knowledge of the particular sector can, and you might hope interpret it with more objectiveness, when there's nothing to gain from it.

[Dr The Singh]

Variables which only work in one direction?

What have a shit boy band got do with variables

*Apologies, I know it's a shit joke

[Webbo]

http://www.ons.gov.u...2012/index.html

The key points from this release are:

• The employment rate for those aged from 16 to 64 was 70.6 per cent, up 0.3 on the quarter.
  
• There were 29.28 million people in employment aged 16 and over, up 166,000 on the quarter. The number of people employed in the private sector increased by 205,000 to reach 23.38 million but the number of people employed in the public sector fell by 39,000 to reach 5.90 million, the lowest figure since March 2003.
  
• The unemployment rate was 8.2 per cent of the economically active population, down 0.2 on the quarter. There were 2.61 million unemployed people, down 51,000 on the quarter.
  
• The inactivity rate for those aged from 16 to 64 was 23.0 per cent, down 0.2 on the quarter. There were 9.23 million economically inactive people aged from 16 to 64, down 69,000 on the quarter.
  
• Total pay (including bonuses) rose by 1.4 per cent on a year earlier, up 0.5 on the three months to March 2012. Regular pay (excluding bonuses) rose by 1.8 per cent on a year earlier, up 0.2 on the three months to March 2012.
  

So in what way are those statistics, from the Office of National Statistics, variable or open to interpretation?

[absolutelegend]

There are clearer a lot of very passionate Labour supporters on this board. I was just wondering what it is that people like about them so much?

[sphericalfox]

So in what way are those statistics, from the Office of National Statistics, variable or open to interpretation?

I already replied to why there's variables in statistics, and possibly those particular stats. I don't work for ONS, nor do I work for the DWP. Use your imagination.

[absolutelegend]

There are clearer a lot of very passionate Labour supporters on this board. I was just wondering what it is that people like about them so much?

Another thing I always wondered, after the reigns of Blair and Brown, what was it that made the Labour faithful return to the polling booths and vote for them again? What was it that they did so well to deserve that?

Is it simply because the Guardian said that they were doing a good job?

[MooseBreath]

No. Dependant on the variables there well be a variety of different outcomes. With further knowledge to understand the variables an experienced and relatively unbiased individual should be able to come to a conclusion based this information.

So the variables can work in any direction, it's just that in this case you happen to know exactly how they work? Do you have any facts to back up this knowledge? Or does your thing about backing up claims with facts not apply when it's you making the claims?

[Webbo]

1-0 to the Tory boys I think.

[sphericalfox]

So the variables can work in any direction, it's just that in this case you happen to know exactly how they work? Do you have any facts to back up this knowledge? Or does your thing about backing up claims with facts not apply when it's you making the claims?

Which case is that then Dave? I work with ONS data every day. Do you? What's your understanding of the data provided by Webbo, you're a keen know-it-all, give your interpretation. We're all ears.

[Nick]

So the variables can work in any direction, it's just that in this case you happen to know exactly how they work? Do you have any facts to back up this knowledge? Or does your thing about backing up claims with facts not apply when it's you making the claims?

For the love of God.

[Guest MattP]

1-0 to the Tory boys I think.

Give us a headline Nick.

[sphericalfox]

Give us a headline Nick.

Yeah Nick, and include some made up stat in it.

Headline: Tory Numpties are Thicker Than You Think

Sub headline: 80% of Tories make up statistics to justify their intellectual superiority

[Webbo]

Yeah Nick, and include some made up stat in it.

Headline: Tory Numpties are Thicker Than You Think

Sub headline: 80% of Tories make up statistics to justify their intellectual superiority

Office of national statistics, made up?

They're very bitter these lefties, not like us in the nasty party.

[sphericalfox]

Office of national statistics, made up?

They're very bitter these lefties, not like us in the nasty party.

There's probably a variable in there, and I'm sure the percentage probably can swing 10 or 15%, but I'm pretty sure its true, because its my opinion and that innit.

[Guest MattP]

Yeah Nick, and include some made up stat in it.

Headline: Tory Numpties are Thicker Than You Think

Sub headline: 80% of Tories make up statistics to justify their intellectual superiority

Touchy Touchy

[Captain...]

Another thing I always wondered, after the reigns of Blair and Brown, what was it that made the Labour faithful return to the polling booths and vote for them again? What was it that they did so well to deserve that?

Is it simply because the Guardian said that they were doing a good job?

You honestly can't tell the difference between now, double dip recession, and 12 years of growth, or under the previous Tory regime, double dip recession and boom and bust.

As much as you can argue that the deficit is all the Labour governments fault (it wasn't but they have to take a fair share of the blame) you must be able to see the world was a better place under Blair and Brown than it currently is now, I'm not saying that they are directly responsible for everything, but it was a much better time then, even if we are paying for it now.

The other reason people vote Labour is because they are the only credible opposition to the Tories, who have shown again and again, that they are untrustworthy, self serving and incompetent. There are some good conservative politicians, but there are also some so mired in the shit that it is amazing they still have a job.

In just 2 years in power there have been numerous examples of incompetence and corruption.

Liam Fox and his special friend.

Cameron and his special relationship with Andy Coulson, Rebekah Brooks and a police horse

Jeremy Hunt and his special relationship with the Murdochs

Peter Cruddas selling access to the PM

Andrew Landsley and his universally opposed NHS reforms

Michael Gove and his universally opposed school reforms

Theresa May gradually eroding our civil liberties while simultaneously relaxing immigration controls and not even knowing what day it is.

...and George Osbourne who is just making mistake after mistake with the economy and pissing off everyone from charities to pasty lovers in the process.

That is why people vote for Labour because the alternative is once again proving itself to be so vile.

[Webbo]

You honestly can't tell the difference between now, double dip recession, and 12 years of growth, or under the previous Tory regime, double dip recession and boom and bust.

We never had boom and bust under labour?

[MooseBreath]

Which case is that then Dave? I work with ONS data every day. Do you? What's your understanding of the data provided by Webbo, you're a keen know-it-all, give your interpretation. We're all ears.

I'm just laughing at the way you've attempted to impose rules on the debate which you've then instantly broken when making your own points.

[sphericalfox]

I'm just laughing at the way you've attempted to impose rules on the debate which you've then instantly broken when making your own points.

Where? If you can't understand what I've said that's okay. There's no shame in that Dave. I've imposed no rules on anything.

I've stated that making up statisitics to back your point is retarded.

I've stated that using numbers from sites such as ONS is fine, but unless you have the knowledge to interpret the data provided it's pointless.

Where exactly (and please quote me, where a.) I've contradicted myself, and b.) where I've used statistics to back up my point.

I'll be waiting.

[MooseBreath]

We never had boom and bust under labour?

It was the end of boom and bust, remember? Shortly before the biggest bust in a generation.

[absolutelegend]

You honestly can't tell the difference between now, double dip recession, and 12 years of growth, or under the previous Tory regime, double dip recession and boom and bust.

As much as you can argue that the deficit is all the Labour governments fault (it wasn't but they have to take a fair share of the blame) you must be able to see the world was a better place under Blair and Brown than it currently is now, I'm not saying that they are directly responsible for everything, but it was a much better time then, even if we are paying for it now.

The other reason people vote Labour is because they are the only credible opposition to the Tories, who have shown again and again, that they are untrustworthy, self serving and incompetent. There are some good conservative politicians, but there are also some so mired in the shit that it is amazing they still have a job.

In just 2 years in power there have been numerous examples of incompetence and corruption.

Liam Fox and his special friend.

Cameron and his special relationship with Andy Coulson, Rebekah Brooks and a police horse

Jeremy Hunt and his special relationship with the Murdochs

Peter Cruddas selling access to the PM

Andrew Landsley and his universally opposed NHS reforms

Michael Gove and his universally opposed school reforms

Theresa May gradually eroding our civil liberties while simultaneously relaxing immigration controls and not even knowing what day it is.

...and George Osbourne who is just making mistake after mistake with the economy and pissing off everyone from charities to pasty lovers in the process.

That is why people vote for Labour because the alternative is once again proving itself to be so vile.

So the reason that you love labour so much is becuase they spent loads of money (that we didn't have) and that they aren't tories? Seriously?

[MooseBreath]

Where? If you can't understand what I've said that's okay. There's no shame in that Dave. I've imposed no rules on anything.

I've stated that making up statisitics to back your point is retarded.

I've stated that using numbers from sites such as ONS is fine, but unless you have the knowledge to interpret the data provided it's pointless.

Where exactly (and please quote me, where a.) I've contradicted myself, and b.) where I've used statistics to back up my point.

I'll be waiting.

You keep digging, I'll keep laughing. Just let me know when you're ready to man up and ask for a rope.

[Guest MattP]

Liam Fox and his special friend.

Cameron and his special relationship with Andy Coulson, Rebekah Brooks and a police horse

Jeremy Hunt and his special relationship with the Murdochs

Peter Cruddas selling access to the PM

Andrew Landsley and his universally opposed NHS reforms

Michael Gove and his universally opposed school reforms

Theresa May gradually eroding our civil liberties while simultaneously relaxing immigration controls and not even knowing what day it is.

Landsley and Goves reforms were always going to be unpopular given the bodies they affect are full of Labour members, Lansley clearly hasn't presented his case well as we have all seen, but I think Gove has got a raw deal, every change he has tried to make recently appears to be highering the bar of our educational standards and I think that's something we should all aspire to. The dumbing down of exams and standards under the Labour party was embarrassing and he seems to be trying to rectify that.

May has nothing on immigration whatsoever, she comes out with soundbytes that are there to please the Tories who are moving to UKIP, she doesnt have any control over immigration to this country and to put it quite simply no one can have until we remove ourselves from the EU.

I won't even bother with anything related to Brooks/Murdoch, every leading politician with a chance of power has cuddled up to Murdoch in recent years and that includes both of them across each side of the dispatch box now.