People get mad over sensible advice regarding rape

[Daggers]

I've had pets with greater critical thinking skills than you.

Did they consent?

[MooseBreath]

but the general message (you're responsible if you get raped) is ****ing ridiculous.

If that were the message, quite right, but it's not. The message is to exercise caution, which is sound advice. It carries no connotations other than that which some people are intent on inventing in any situation in order to create an opportunity to be offended.

[Charl91]

Wouldn't surprise me to see feminists try and rape guys, just so they can prove that women are better at it.

[Daggers]

Having been raped after becoming the worse for wear on drink, I wonder how many women would, in retrospect, behave more sensibly.

Of course there's no excuse for people taking advantage of the situation but there's no doubt there are some who do and the police posters seem like a perfectly sensible way of warning women about the potential consequences if they drink themselves legless.

Whether women who drink themselves stupid are likely to take the advice offered is another matter but the tone of the posters seems only the kind that a concerned father might give to his teenaged daughter.

The "feminist" view is just claptrap...and of no value to anyone who has actually been raped or who's left herself vulnerable to unwanted attention because of her inebriated state.

Would anyone willingly walk alongside a motorway because the vehicles are supposed to stay in the three main lanes? Of course not, so why proclaim that rapists cause rape when simply encouraging women to act more sensibly might well help them avoid such unpleasantness.

It would appear that Oxford have just updated their definition of 'ignorant'.

[sphericalfox]

It would appear that Oxford have just updated their definition of 'ignorant'.

Not if they haven't seen Dave the Chandlermoose's contributions to FT, and DT's extraordinary post in this thread (# 49)

[I am Rod Hull]

This is like watching an episode of the Ricky Gervais show.

I cant help but root for the round headed buffoon, I don`t know why, I just do

[Guest ttfn]

Like a Burkha?

Fair point.

But I think you're willfully ignoring the obvious positive intentions of this campaign.

[The Doctor]

If that were the message, quite right, but it's not. The message is to exercise caution, which is sound advice. It carries no connotations other than that which some people are intent on inventing in any situation in order to create an opportunity to be offended.

Except of course, it's saying that if you don't drink, you're not going to be raped - which would then follow: if you get raped, you probably caused it. Portraying the victim as being responsible is a pathetic notion, and only serves to ignore those actually at fault - the opportunistic men who take advantage of more vulnerable women.

[MooseBreath]

Not if they haven't seen Dave the Chandlermoose's contributions to FT, and DT's extraordinary post in this thread (# 49)

you don't need no education, you don't need no to ability to think independently

[MooseBreath]

Except of course, it's saying that if you don't drink, you're not going to be raped

Except it doesn't say that. That implication is at best a deeply flawed attempt to read between the lines, but more realistically a total fabrication made with the express intention of finding a reason to take offence. If you're going to go around inventing meanings which offend you, don't be surprised when you end up being offended.

[Jon the Hat]

Good to see so much stupidity in one place. It's like the Olympic Games of ****wittery.

[Charl91]

Except of course, it's saying that if you don't drink, you're not going to be raped - which would then follow: if you get raped, you probably caused it. Portraying the victim as being responsible is a pathetic notion, and only serves to ignore those actually at fault - the opportunistic men who take advantage of more vulnerable women.

To be fair I think it's saying if you don't drink you're less likely to get raped, which is probably backed up by statistical evidence. It's no different in my eyes then when you are told to hide your valuables from your car window. In these cases the offender is clearly at fault, there is no doubt about it, but you might as well give yourself the best chance to stop it from happening.

It's a piece of (sensible) advice, it's not saying that drinking means you deserve to get raped, anymore then leaving your house unlocked doesn't mean you deserve to be robbed. I don't understand how people are possibly taking offence.

[Guest ttfn]

Except of course, it's saying that if you don't drink, you're not going to be raped - which would then follow: if you get raped, you probably caused it. Portraying the victim as being responsible is a pathetic notion, and only serves to ignore those actually at fault - the

opportunistic men who take advantage of more vulnerable women.

Reductio ad absurdum.

Getting steaming drunk makes you more vulnerable. That is indisputable. Nobody is claiming that drunk women bring it upon themselves, which is what you seem to think these posters imply.

It's absolutely awful that we live in a society where women can't go out and do as they please without the fear of some reprehensible cvnt taking advantage of them, but given that we don't, a poster reminding women of the dangers they risk further exposing themselves to is hardly the worst thing ever.

[fleckneymike]

Fair point.

But I think you're willfully ignoring the obvious positive intentions of this campaign.

I think you'll find that the troll who began this thread was wilfully misrepresenting the objections from the Rape and Sexual Assault support centre. This poster was part of a campaign of TWO posters, one aimed at men and one at women. The one aimed at men warned that you COULD be breaking the law if you don't receive consent for sexual intercourse. This is what the spokesperson actually said

"There is no could be about it - that's rape - and to put regretful sex and rape together is appalling.

"The problem was the poster put the blame on to alcohol and women who are raped, suggesting if they didn't drink they could avoid rape.

"It's not alcohol that causes rape, although it's a vulnerability factor, it's rapists that cause rape.

"We are now in a really sad situation where we can't support a police campaign."

Not nearly as controversial as the troll would have you believe.

[The Doctor]

Except it doesn't say that. That implication is at best a deeply flawed attempt to read between the lines, but more realistically a total fabrication made with the express intention of finding a reason to take offence.

Not at all - it suggests that drinking less will prevent rape, and by doing so places the blame on the victim - essentially saying "well you see, if you hadn't drank so much then this wouldn't have happened."

There may be a slight correlation between the amount drunk and being raped, but just challenging women to drink less is not the correct way to deal with the underlying problem - what needs to be done is to challenge the mindset of the opportunistic, and suggesting that if you get raped, you're at fault, does nothing to do so and, if anything, encourages that mindset.

[Guest Col city fan]

Reductio ad absurdum.

Getting steaming drunk makes you more vulnerable. That is indisputable. Nobody is claiming that drunk women bring it upon themselves, which is what you seem to think these posters imply.

It's absolutely awful that we live in a society where women can't go out and do as they please without the fear of some reprehensible cvnt taking advantage of them, but given that we don't, a poster reminding women of the dangers they risk further exposing themselves to is hardly the worst thing ever.

Great post...

[MooseBreath]

Not at all - it suggests that drinking less will prevent rape, and by doing so places the blame on the victim - essentially saying "well you see, if you hadn't drank so much then this wouldn't have happened."

There may be a slight correlation between the amount drunk and being raped, but just challenging women to drink less is not the correct way to deal with the underlying problem - what needs to be done is to challenge the mindset of the opportunistic, and suggesting that if you get raped, you're at fault, does nothing to do so and, if anything, encourages that mindset.

I do see your side of the argument, I just think it's obscure and of little use other than to create a reason to be offended. I think if/when you have a daughter of your own who is going out, your advice to her might deal more in the often harsh reality of the world we live in rather this oddball pseudo-intellectual world of the feminists with its dangerous level of denial.

[Guest Bilo]

Good to see so much stupidity in one place. It's like the Olympic Games of ****wittery.

Even after two weeks of Olympic competition, I doubt we've seen a more keenly contested gold.

[Guest]

Some of the views on this thread expressed which believe the victim is in some way responsible are very depressing..

Indeed. It'll be the clothes we wear next...

I can well believe that most feminists would enjoy being raped, the stupid bitches.

That's a worrying statement coming from someone who was, or maybe still is, a PCSO. Is it a view shared by real coppers, too?

[Guest MattP]

Great thread

[The Doctor]

To be fair I think it's saying if you don't drink you're less likely to get raped, which is probably backed up by statistical evidence. It's no different in my eyes then when you are told to hide your valuables from your car window. In these cases the offender is clearly at fault, there is no doubt about it, but you might as well give yourself the best chance to stop it from happening.

It's a piece of (sensible) advice, it's not saying that drinking means you deserve to get raped, anymore then leaving your house unlocked doesn't mean you deserve to be robbed. I don't understand how people are possibly taking offence.

I think this is where someone (probably 'kokopops) jumps in with the old "correlation doesn't mean causation" - there may be a trend as to people who've had more to drink being raped, but that's not to say then that drinking less stops the issue.

I didn't say it did say it says that "drinking means you deserve to get raped" - I said that it suggests that you're responsible if you do get raped, which is an absurd proposal.

Reductio ad absurdum.

Getting steaming drunk makes you more vulnerable. That is indisputable. Nobody is claiming that drunk women bring it upon themselves, which is what you seem to think these posters imply.

It's absolutely awful that we live in a society where women can't go out and do as they please without the fear of some reprehensible cvnt taking advantage of them, but given that we don't, a poster reminding women of the dangers they risk further exposing themselves to is hardly the worst thing ever.

Not at all, as I've said there is an argument for encouraging people to be more careful while on a night out but what these posters do is suggest that you're responsible - obviously getting completely off your head doesn't help, but as I've said - what should be challenged is the notion some people have that taking advantage of someone is acceptable, and amazingly - I've never seen a poster or advert challenging that.

[Daggers]

With 2/3s of rapes being committed by friends or relations known to the victim it'd be better advice to tell women to live alone and tell potential friends to fvck off.

[Daggers]

I can well believe that most feminists would enjoy being raped, the stupid bitches.

You stupid, stupid cvnt.

[Guest ttfn]

Not at all, as I've said there is an argument for encouraging people to be more careful while on a night out but what these posters do is suggest that you're responsible - obviously getting completely off your head doesn't help, but as

I've said - what should be challenged is the notion some people have that taking advantage

of someone is acceptable, and amazingly - I've never seen a poster or advert challenging that.

You are, of course, completely right. I either completely misinterpreted what you first put or you've put it far better the second time around.

It doesn't make these posters a bad thing though.

[Webbo]

If a woman gets so drunk that she's in no state to defend herself then it's not her fault but she's still been raped. Surely it's in her best interest to make that eventuality as unlikely as possible?