Teams that park the bus.

[dayday]

We struggled with these teams last year and we did again last night,Marshall and Knockaert hitting hopeful balls in the box knowing full well the big Burnley centre halves will head it straight back out.

Second half we got lucky and the change in system helped but i reckon it would be even better with a target man for these sort of matches and if Futacs is not the answer, Pearson really needs to go out and get one because there will be a lot more games like this ..

Also Danny Drinkwater for me needs help in midfield,quite often he gets isolated and it shows in his passing,and i think Knockaert is that man to take the pressure of him...When was the last time we had a player like that who wants the ball all the time,not afraid to take any one on and very tenacious,for me he pulls the strings and is better suited to a more central than wide role, i think he could be our little 'Messi' ...What's your thoughts?

[Trav Le Bleu]

Futacs obviously is the answer. Pearson will play him when he's good and ready. He's still young and even a struggling Pompey didn'y play him much last season other than off the bench. I think we might see him increasingly as and when needed once Pearson is confident he's properly up to speed with the team.

[Harry - LCFC]

I don't think either of our CMs looked like slipping the ball through for our strikers last night (something that suits both Vardy and Nugent's style) and we were relying on our wide players to create. As such, we were forced to throw the ball into the box which came to nothing.

2nd half, Knockaert in the middle started to create more and we looked better as a result. Although King isn't a superb passer he does seem to get things going with a few runs - we missed his spark yesterday, particularly in the 1st 45 minutes.

I don't really see either Drinkwater or James creating much for the team in future. Perhaps stick Knockaert in CM? I think this has already been suggested in another thread.

[Happy Fox]

Drinkwater has an engine but lacks creativity all our central midfielders lack that creativity or really have that ability to thread that killer ball that is why it would of been nice to sign someone like Koren in the summer. If we play 4-4-2 it is going to hamper us, Knockaert and Marshall are the only two player in the team that can make thinks tick give them the ball more often than not and something will happen having said that they are restricted playing out wide because if they do cross the ball it is to no avail as none of the front men are anywhere near it or attack the ball.

[Stig the Lawnmower]

why don't we 'park the bus' when playing away? we struggle to park a bicycle

[acooling08]

The answer is to resort to long ball and play Futacs.

[Thracian]

When teams defend in numbers the important thing is to stretch the defenders as wide as possible to open up a few gaps and then to pass the ball quickly and on the floor. This gives defenders less time to re-adjust to each new situation and encourages mistakes. As soon as the ball is floated in the air it's meat and drink to the massed defenders and a lot less worrying.

Instead crosses should be punched in with spin and venom - again to make opponents react quicker and perhaps make an error and even supplementary players need t have a crack or two at goal.

This has two effects. There is obviously the chance of scoring directly or getting a break from a deflection but it also means defenders have to close down all the attackers rather than just limiting the space available in and around the penalty box....again resulting in the defenders being stretched more.

Another thing is to vary our approach. If Knockaert, for instance, runs at opponents but the next time lays off a first time pass it puts doubt in a defender's mind as do varied corners and free-kicks.

Everything should be geared to making defenders uncertain, making them leave gaps that can be exploited and giving them lots of decisions to make quickly. Above all though is the need for patience. It is so easy to get frustrated and to anxiously start pumping aimless crosses into the box when in fact every pass should have a specific purpose.

Look at all the great sides. Even into injury time they pass and move, this way and that until eventually one or more of the opposing defenders get panicky and make a fatal error...Ronaldo offering an excellent example against Manchester City.

Yes, the crowd might want a floated cross because, just as with corners, they somehow believe a cross of any sort equals a potential chance.

But it doesn't - it mostly gives the ball away to the opposition without them having to do much work. We don't have generally use big aerial players anyway so we need to work our chances quickly, mostly along the floor and perhaps by driving one or two crosses into the danger zone so that any contact might turn them in.

[dayday]

When teams defend in numbers the important thing is to stretch the defenders as wide as possible to open up a few gaps and then to pass the ball quickly and on the floor. This gives defenders less time to re-adjust to each new situation and encourages mistakes. As soon as the ball is floated in the air it's meat and drink to the massed defenders and a lot less worrying.

Instead crosses should be punched in with spin and venom - again to make opponents react quicker and perhaps make an error and even supplementary players need t have a crack or two at goal.

This has two effects. There is obviously the chance of scoring directly or getting a break from a deflection but it also means defenders have to close down all the attackers rather than just limiting the space available in and around the penalty box....again resulting in the defenders being stretched more.

Another thing is to vary our approach. If Knockaert, for instance, runs at opponents but the next time lays off a first time pass it puts doubt in a defender's mind as do varied corners and free-kicks.

Everything should be geared to making defenders uncertain, making them leave gaps that can be exploited and giving them lots of decisions to make quickly. Above all though is the need for patience. It is so easy to get frustrated and to anxiously start pumping aimless crosses into the box when in fact every pass should have a specific purpose.

Look at all the great sides. Even into injury time they pass and move, this way and that until eventually one or more of the opposing defenders get panicky and make a fatal error...Ronaldo offering an excellent example against Manchester City.

Yes, the crowd might want a floated cross because, just as with corners, they somehow believe a cross of any sort equals a potential chance.

But it doesn't - it mostly gives the ball away to the opposition without them having to do much work. We don't have generally use big aerial players anyway so we need to work our chances quickly, mostly along the floor and perhaps by driving one or two crosses into the danger zone so that any contact might turn them in.

I understand what you are saying,though last night as soon as our wide players got the ball,Burnley were quick to close down and were doubling up on them causing us to pass back or send aimless balls in the box...at least with a mobile target man you have an extra option rather than just waiting for the mistakes to happen.

Our record against the lower placed teams last year cost us a play off spot,of my head we lost twice to Millwall,twice to Bristol City, got 1 point of Barnsley,1 point of Peterborough,2 points of Forest...out of a possible 30 points we got a measly 4 points.

Rather than just waiting for things to happen we have to have the option of plan B

[marbelladave]

Drinkwater has an engine but lacks creativity all our central midfielders lack that creativity or really have that ability to thread that killer ball that is why it would of been nice to sign someone like Koren in the summer. If we play 4-4-2 it is going to hamper us, Knockaert and Marshall are the only two player in the team that can make thinks tick give them the ball more often than not and something will happen having said that they are restricted playing out wide because if they do cross the ball it is to no avail as none of the front men are anywhere near it or attack the ball.

So lets see if I have got this right........

Our central midfielders lack creativity.......

Our most creative players are deployed out wide because we play 4-4-2 and there is nowhere else they can play......

From wide positions they can play crosses into the box for our strikers, who are not very good at attacking crosses......

Tactical genius.....

[Arriba Los Zorros]

i think we have enough quality creative players, and play with enough tempo this year, to break down these sorts of teams

Knockaert, Marshall, Dyer

Set pieces from Marshalls delivery with Morgan and Whitbread in the box could prove a Plan B

[Kitchandro]

So lets see if I have got this right........

Our central midfielders lack creativity.......

Our most creative players are deployed out wide because we play 4-4-2 and there is nowhere else they can play......

From wide positions they can play crosses into the box for our strikers, who are not very good at attacking crosses......

Tactical genius.....

Reluctantly, what you're suggesting is probably the best option.

I'd have loved us to have creativity from out wide and in the centre, 4-4-2 would have been fine had we bought a creative midfielder to go with 2 wingers.

[marbelladave]

Reluctantly, what you're suggesting is probably the best option.

I'd have loved us to have creativity from out wide and in the centre, 4-4-2 would have been fine had we bought a creative midfielder to go with 2 wingers.

Modern football just isn't like that, 4-4-2 with 2 men up, 2 men wide and a creative/attacking centre mid will see you routinely destroyed week after week.....

The game is all about possession, getting it then keeping it. To do that you need to be compact with players close to each other so that they can support and offer options.

Our biggest problem this season is that our front 6 are far too widely spaced, our back 4 does not push up and the front 2 push onto the opposition back 4, no wonder the central pairing can neither properly support the front 2 nor adequately shield the defence, they are far too busy just getting up and down the pitch......

Playing with wingers just makes things worse, stay wide, like Marshall in recent games, and you rarely get a kick and contribute little. Both our fullbacks are good going forward so tuck in and let them use the width in forward positions, defensive cover comes from the centre mids.

And you know what, we actually have the players to play this way, no need to be thinking why didn't we sign an attacking mid, a defensive mid or a bloody great big centre forward........

[Captain...]

I understand what you are saying,though last night as soon as our wide players got the ball,Burnley were quick to close down and were doubling up on them causing us to pass back or send aimless balls in the box...at least with a mobile target man you have an extra option rather than just waiting for the mistakes to happen.

Our record against the lower placed teams last year cost us a play off spot,of my head we lost twice to Millwall,twice to Bristol City, got 1 point of Barnsley,1 point of Peterborough,2 points of Forest...out of a possible 30 points we got a measly 4 points.

Rather than just waiting for things to happen we have to have the option of plan B

But we mustn't be afraid to pass back, just sending in a cross against good defenders parking the bus will result in up losing possession and potentially expose up to a counter attack, if you are getting no joy in one attack, keep the ball, play it back, knock it around the back four, draw out their defenders tire them out chasing the ball, frustrate them and starve them of possession so they have to break their shape and come looking for it. Then we can exploit the gaps they leave, the problem is we will often do that to a point, but then it will end up with Kasper hoofing it forwards, and then it is meat and drink for the big defenders again. I do think np has instilled a new philosophy into the team, and we have played some nice stuff including cutting defences to ribbons with quick incisive passing at times. If we can be patient and confident knocking it around the back 4 and not give it away cheaply, then I would always favour that over just charging down the flanks and lumping the ball in to the big man.

[marbelladave]

But we mustn't be afraid to pass back, just sending in a cross against good defenders parking the bus will result in up losing possession and potentially expose up to a counter attack, if you are getting no joy in one attack, keep the ball, play it back, knock it around the back four, draw out their defenders tire them out chasing the ball, frustrate them and starve them of possession so they have to break their shape and come looking for it. Then we can exploit the gaps they leave, the problem is we will often do that to a point, but then it will end up with Kasper hoofing it forwards, and then it is meat and drink for the big defenders again. I do think np has instilled a new philosophy into the team, and we have played some nice stuff including cutting defences to ribbons with quick incisive passing at times. If we can be patient and confident knocking it around the back 4 and not give it away cheaply, then I would always favour that over just charging down the flanks and lumping the ball in to the big man.

This keeping possession at the back does not really work for us, our defenders are not that comfortable on the ball and they play far too deep.

Our midfield and front players are too far forward so that if our defenders are closed down in possession they either give it to Schmeichel or have to play it long......

It's simple enough, the back 4 push up a little, the centre mids drop back to give them the 'out' ball and our attacking mids drop off the front man to pick up possession and run at the defence. The fullbacks support the attacks with runs out wide and the center mids cover, need to make some provision to maintain cover to allow King to make his runs into the box though.

[Kitchandro]

Modern football just isn't like that, 4-4-2 with 2 men up, 2 men wide and a creative/attacking centre mid will see you routinely destroyed week after week.....

The game is all about possession, getting it then keeping it. To do that you need to be compact with players close to each other so that they can support and offer options.

Our biggest problem this season is that our front 6 are far too widely spaced, our back 4 does not push up and the front 2 push onto the opposition back 4, no wonder the central pairing can neither properly support the front 2 nor adequately shield the defence, they are far too busy just getting up and down the pitch......

Playing with wingers just makes things worse, stay wide, like Marshall in recent games, and you rarely get a kick and contribute little. Both our fullbacks are good going forward so tuck in and let them use the width in forward positions, defensive cover comes from the centre mids.

And you know what, we actually have the players to play this way, no need to be thinking why didn't we sign an attacking mid, a defensive mid or a bloody great big centre forward........

I disagree, I don't think that's necessarily the case. Even if your assumption is that we'd concede more goals (which is not necessarily true, if you're got a hard working ball winner who tracks back and a solid defence) we'd be likely to create more as well. At the moment we're short of creativity centrally and it doesn't matter how many you put in the middle if none of them are creative. You don't need numerous bodies in the middle and you don't need more than one player protecting the back four if the back four is doing it's job properly.

If we're to change the formation and bring Knocky inside we'll likely create more down the middle but we'll be sacrificing our wide threat which we've needed for years. But you're right in saying that's probably a necessary sacrifice because, despite the fact I think we've put in plenty of decent crosses in the games/highlights I've seen (for example Marshall put in 4 or 5 great crosses against Blackpool, put one for Nugent's sitter v Blackburn, and there were enough good ones to score against Wolves) we've struggled to convert them for whatever reason.

But it's not a case of 4-4-2 being shit and never working in the modern game, because that's not true. Reading played it last season more often than that and finished top. So did Southampton, with Lallana as the creative mid. Norwich played similarly. At the moment though, with the players we've got it might be right to change the formation.

[marbelladave]

I disagree, I don't think that's necessarily the case. Even if your assumption is that we'd concede more goals (which is not necessarily true, if you're got a hard working ball winner who tracks back and a solid defence) we'd be likely to create more as well. At the moment we're short of creativity centrally and it doesn't matter how many you put in the middle if none of them are creative. You don't need numerous bodies in the middle and you don't need more than one player protecting the back four if the back four is doing it's job properly.

If we're to change the formation and bring Knocky inside we'll likely create more down the middle but we'll be sacrificing our wide threat which we've needed for years. But you're right in saying that's probably a necessary sacrifice because, despite the fact I think we've put in plenty of decent crosses in the games/highlights I've seen (for example Marshall put in 4 or 5 great crosses against Blackpool, put one for Nugent's sitter v Blackburn, and there were enough good ones to score against Wolves) we've struggled to convert them for whatever reason.

But it's not a case of 4-4-2 being shit and never working in the modern game, because that's not true. Reading played it last season more often than that and finished top. So did Southampton, with Lallana as the creative mid. Norwich played similarly. At the moment though, with the players we've got it might be right to change the formation.

Of course it isn't necessarily the case, if you have right players anything is possible, but the way we are playing 4-4-2 with the players we currently have is not working, look at the results......

I some ways you are proving my case, yes if we play Marshall and Knockeart/Dyer wide, they do get crosses into box, so why are we not scoring loads?

Simple, our strikers are not effective attacking crosses, even the few good ones, that is self evident. Start players in wide positions by all means, but have them drive at the box with the ball at their feet, this will cause way more problems than crosses that are 'meat and drink' for big championship central defenders.

It is all about getting the best from the players we have and you will not get that playing NFP's wretched overstretched 4-4-2.

What does it matter if Southampton or Norwich are successful playing 4-4-2, we are not them and we do not have their players......