UKIP Candidate calls for abortion of disabled Foetuses

[Zingari]

They're allowed their own opinions though as it says in the article. They defended him initially but now appear to have sacked him based on the reaction of the dim chattering classes, which is a pretty weak move from a party in their position.

It does seem slightly odd to me that countless healthy foetuses are killed daily by routine abortions ( often for financial or social reasons)and politicians can pretty much have their own opinions about it , but at the mention of disabled foetuses and everyone gets hot under the collar .

[MattyFromLE]

Weeeeellllllll, it is clearly a stupid thing to say, but is it such a stupid idea? Now bear with me on this, I am not advocating the enforced abortion of anyone, but at some point we have to confront the reality that there are too many human beings on the planet and we will not be able to cope, resources are becoming scarcer and it wouldn't take much to seriously threaten the current status quo, and when the shit hits the fan it will become survival of the fittest.

So should we be looking at population and birth control, should we be encouraging people to take more thought and control over how and when we have kids, should people who are genetically predisposed to a high risk of having genetically damaged children be encouraged to adopt rather than risk having kids that are unable to handle themselves.

My point is we shouldn't demonise people for aborting children that will be born disabled, for the improvement of the species we should perhaps look to encourage it.

I don't agree that it should be mandatory to abort foetuses that show disabilities, and unfortunately he phrased it in such a twattish way that he has probably set any open debate or discussion on such issues back, but it is something we shouldn't be afraid to talk about.

Where does it start and end though? I have a nerve and muscle condition called Charcot Marie Tooth ( Bad legs, and hands... ) which would be detectable at that point. I play football twice a week, in goal, play in a band and consider my life quite active. At point of noticing the severity of my condition as a "foetus" when does it become somebody else's decision that it would be unliveable? Assuming that the point of his argument was to stop the strain on those around the foetus, as well as the living thing itself...

[Rincewind]

I found out in the last year that I was born with a mus-placed hip. This has been part of the reason why I am not physically strong and always came last in schools runs. But it has never stopped me living a normal life. I have never considered myself disabled. In fact when I was told I was surprised. I don't mind walking though although I am slowing down in my latter years.

Whether the fetus is healthy or not is irrelevant, it should still come down to the choice of the mother and not the state

[FoxyPV]

It's up to the parents to decide if they want to have an abortion regardless of thier reasons. If they choose to have an abortion due to any perceived abnormality then so be it.

I wouldn't call for institutionalised abortions though.

[Captain...]

The reason we do not go that route is because it is a slippery slope, as you well know .

Once you decide certain foetuses should be aborted by the state, how long before you start adding to the list of things that are found to be undesirable and then of course you will get parents who will go underground to avoid losing their child and who will become criminals in the eyes of the state.

Those that slip through, are they to be terminated or put into camps well out of public view?

History has shown us what can happen when poeple in power start to go down that route and disabilities are seen as an abomination to be euthanised instead of perhaps using the knowledge our species has garnered thus far to find cures or technology to help.

I wonder what Stephen Hawking might have to say if asked?

I don't agree with the state deciding, but I do think people should be made more aware and be more responsible in general about bringing kids into the world and not be demonised for deciding that they are not ready to bring a child into this world, disabled or otherwise.

As for the severity of the disability that should be up to the parents to decide, but a sensible approach to it now could prevent forced state control further down the line.

[Captain...]

They're allowed their own opinions though as it says in the article. They defended him initially but now appear to have sacked him based on the reaction of the dim chattering classes, which is a pretty weak move from a party in their position.

I think when opinion is on state control and government intervention on such things then I think there is a case, if it was just his opinion rather than his personal manifesto, then he would have more case to grumble, but if he is making political statements as a UKIP party member then it is a different matter.

[ithuriel]

I don't agree with the state deciding, but I do think people should be made more aware and be more responsible in general about bringing kids into the world and not be demonised for deciding that they are not ready to bring a child into this world, disabled or otherwise.

As for the severity of the disability that should be up to the parents to decide, but a sensible approach to it now could prevent forced state control further down the line.

Better to confront the immigration issue, which is another can of worms but from what i have read these past few years the population massively increased due to a major influx of poeple with far less leaving.

Perhaps there should be an age restriction, after all the exceptionally old will no longer contribute, perhaps a set age but extended by the years worked, kind of like work based contribution living

[Rincewind]

So you either drop dead at work or put down by the state?

[ithuriel]

So you either drop dead at work or put down by the state?

Soylent Green :xmaswink:

[BunkMoreland]

Imagine having to buy years after retirement age. If you've got no money you're put down straight away. The rich can afford a nice 30 year retirement. That would sort the men from the boys. Proper hectic.

[ithuriel]

They are already at it anyway, EastEnders Xmas specials are designed to initiate mass euthenasia but unfortunately peeps are that full of turkey they cant even do that, fall asleep and the feeling is past.

[Rincewind]

Knowing my luck the way Governments work the goalposts will be moved just as I've accumulated enough for another five years and the price will rise.

[James.]

I don't agree with the state deciding, but I do think people should be made more aware and be more responsible in general about bringing kids into the world and not be demonised for deciding that they are not ready to bring a child into this world, disabled or otherwise.

As for the severity of the disability that should be up to the parents to decide, but a sensible approach to it now could prevent forced state control further down the line.

This I agree with. Encouraging abortion of disabled foetuses is different though and something I would never condone.

I actually think there's a strong argument for a licence to have children.

[BunkMoreland]

Knowing my luck the way Governments work the goalposts will be moved just as I've accumulated enough for another five years and the price will rise.

You'll be fine. A few tricky nights down the public toilets at abbey park and you'll be away. Would br interesting to see how many people couldn't find some paid employment if their life literally depended on it.

[ithuriel]

You'll be fine. A few tricky nights down the public toilets at abbey park and you'll be away. Would br interesting to see how many people couldn't find some paid employment if their life literally depended on it.

Would that make George Micheal some kind of perverted vampire, sucking on human juices to extend his life :xmasblink:

Sorry, i go off on weird tangents on a regular basis

[Guest BlueBrett]

Sometimes I think there are shills sent in purposely to discredit alternative parties .

That was my immediate thought when I read this.

[acooling08]

I don't really disagree entirely with what he has said there.

It is factual that in the future we are going to be really strugging to cope with our ever growing population. It will not be possible to provide the medical care required for all these people, so maybe it would be a kinder thing to do to abort foetuses that will have genetic diseases than to allow them to be born, suffer terribly, then die anyway.

Yes it will be tough morally but it might be necessary, sounds grim eh?

Maybe science will have progessed to a point where genes of foetuses can be deleted or altered to make them healthy. I know it is getting closer to reality although such stuff is banned pretty much everywhere.

[ADK]

I highly doubt we will be unable to care for the disabled considering the giant leaps forward in standards of living over the last 50 years.

Pretty sad the number of people here who actually support the idea.

[Finnegan]

Cooling true to form. ****ing hell.

[The People's Hero]

I don't really disagree entirely with what he has said there.

It is factual that in the future we are going to be really strugging to cope with our ever growing population. It will not be possible to provide the medical care required for all these people, so maybe it would be a kinder thing to do to abort foetuses that will have genetic diseases than to allow them to be born, suffer terribly, then die anyway.

Yes it will be tough morally but it might be necessary, sounds grim eh?

Maybe science will have progessed to a point where genes of foetuses can be deleted or altered to make them healthy. I know it is getting closer to reality although such stuff is banned pretty much everywhere.

I find that to be an abhorrent and disgusting viewpoint.

All life is precious and it really does take all sorts in life.

This viewpoint is verging on aryanism and it genuinely upsets me that anyone can think this way - to reduce the question of whether a child should live to a series of arbitrary viability or practicality based question is to miss much of what makes us all human.

[Finnegan]

That was my immediate thought when I read this.

Yet if it was some Labour or Lib Dem backbencher putting their foot in it you'd be outraged.

[The People's Hero]

Sorry for going all serious there by the way - no offence meant acooling, I wasn't calling you a Nazi.

[21st Century Fox]

Are we sterilising gypsies and castrating gays in this Eutopia also?

[Finnegan]

Sorry for going all serious there by the way - no offence meant acooling, I wasn't calling you a Nazi.

He's not smart enough to be a Nazi.

He's just a ridiculously ignorant child who's received an absolutely atrocious education on the world and human values and just recycles the bigoted drivel he hears from elsewhere.

I accept that not everyone shares my politics, I accept that the Webbos, BlueBretts and Jon the Hats of this world are bright enough people with a right to their own view.

But acooling isn't conservative, he's not in line with Tory policy, Cameron and co' would be just as disgusted by half the shit he comes out with as any self respecting lefty.

Just sad really.

[Guest BlueBrett]

Yet if it was some Labour or Lib Dem backbencher putting their foot in it you'd be outraged.

delighted more like!

It just seems suspicious by its sheer ridiculousness and hits far too many of the choice notes of precaution, especially the riff raff comment. Sounds like the kind of thing some exasperated person might say but it beggars belief that someone who actually wants to pursue a career in politics would be stupid enough to actually write it down.

Plus the rise of UKIP is beginning to cause serious problems for all 3 of the mainstream parties so I don't think conspiracy is too far fetched.

(Btw I'm not a UKIP supporter. I dislike lots of things about all of the parties and my hated of Labour is down to a genuine belief that they are just the worst of the poor options available. A lot of the time it's not even their [lack of] policies but their conduct and the impact it has had on the way the whole system works these days that really grates on me).

I accept that not everyone shares my politics, I accept that the Webbos, BlueBretts and Jon the Hats of this world are bright enough people with a right to their own view.

That's very nice of you..for what it's worth you are one of the few 'lefty' posters I can read without despair. I think its because you seem to mean the first sentence of the quote and are one of the few on here who have managed to avoid falling into the trap of what Peter HItchens called 'liberal bigotry' on QT last week.