The Doctor Posted 19 December 2012 Posted 19 December 2012 It does seem slightly odd to me that countless healthy foetuses are killed daily by routine abortions ( often for financial or social reasons)and politicians can pretty much have their own opinions about it , but at the mention of disabled foetuses and everyone gets hot under the collar . I don't think it's so much about the disabled aspect as the forced abortions - the pro-lifers are obviously against it, and the main aspect of most pro-choice arguments is that the law shouldn't get to stick its nose in every woman's uterus - I.e she's got control over her reproductive system, which wouldn't be the case in this...
AyewJoking Posted 19 December 2012 Posted 19 December 2012 its a good idea and immigrants should be restricted to one child.
Haydos Posted 19 December 2012 Posted 19 December 2012 I find that to be an abhorrent and disgusting viewpoint. All life is precious and it really does take all sorts in life. This viewpoint is verging on aryanism and it genuinely upsets me that anyone can think this way - to reduce the question of whether a child should live to a series of arbitrary viability or practicality based question is to miss much of what makes us all human. Are you 100%, unquestionably pro-life then?
Guest MattP Posted 19 December 2012 Posted 19 December 2012 That's very nice of you..for what it's worth you are one of the few 'lefty' posters I can read without despair. I think its because you seem to mean the first sentence of the quote and are one of the few on here who have managed to avoid falling into the trap of what Peter HItchens called 'liberal bigotry' on QT last week. Pretty much why I like Finners and the Captain as well, they always argue their points well and never have to resort to the same sort of abuse a lot of others do on here. As for the original post, quite astounding comments, rightly sacked. I'd hope in some way shape or form he has been misquoted to a certain extent, it's not a massive story mind, it's not like it's Farage or Nuttall saying it, councillors say stupid things all the time from all parties.
Captain... Posted 19 December 2012 Posted 19 December 2012 Picking up on the healthcare angle, how far will people who support things like a fat tax, to go along with high tax on unhealthy lifestyles such as fags and booze, and believe that people should only have kids if they can afford them and shouldn't rely on hand outs from the state, will go. If you believe a family that chooses to have a 5th child or an adult that chooses to live an unhealthy lifestyle shouldn't have free benefits and state healthcare for these self inflicted problems... ...then if you choose to bring a severely disabled child into this world instead of having it aborted, should you expect the state to pay for it, in terms of healthcare and benefits? Another angle from the abort the disabled foetuses, is should potential parents known to have risk of being required/given the option to conceive by in vitro fertilisation where by the gametes or zygotes are selected to ensure no genetic disabilities?
Finnegan Posted 19 December 2012 Posted 19 December 2012 Pretty much why I like Finners and the Captain as well, they always argue their points well and never have to resort to the same sort of abuse a lot of others do on here. As for the original post, quite astounding comments, rightly sacked. I'd hope in some way shape or form he has been misquoted to a certain extent, it's not a massive story mind, it's not like it's Farage or Nuttall saying it, councillors say stupid things all the time from all parties. Exactly my point and exactly why I think it's a bit melodramatic expecting any of the "big" parties to have planted this guy in UKIP to make them look bad. It's too easy to find a quote like this and make a story up, there's a few fringe morons on every political element and it's easy enough to have your press department smear their best-of all over the internet and the media to discredit them. Page one Malcolm Tucker.
Webbo Posted 19 December 2012 Posted 19 December 2012 Pretty much why I like Finners and the Captain as well, they always argue their points well and never have to resort to the same sort of abuse a lot of others do on here. Me too.
Alexikokopops Posted 19 December 2012 Posted 19 December 2012 Well I think you're all dicks. Especially Finners. Lefty tosser.
skinnydipper Posted 19 December 2012 Posted 19 December 2012 On these principles had FTmembers been the subject of a brain scan in utero this board would be like a ghost town.
ithuriel Posted 19 December 2012 Posted 19 December 2012 On these principles had FTmembers been the subject of a brain scan in utero this board would be like a ghost town. Sounds like someone has only read the first post and perhaps the last and has become all superior and judgemental without any validity
Carl the Llama Posted 19 December 2012 Posted 19 December 2012 Sounds like someone has only read the first post and perhaps the last and has become all superior and judgemental without any validity read foxestalk
skinnydipper Posted 19 December 2012 Posted 19 December 2012 Sounds like someone has only read the first post and perhaps the last and has become all superior and judgemental without any validity Or alternatively, there's a lot of meat heads about.
ithuriel Posted 19 December 2012 Posted 19 December 2012 Spot on Boxing Foxes. Come on then as i am interested, what is your take on this matter of this now ex UKIP member wanting the state to abort feotuses and what are your objections and against whom?
Tom17LCFC Posted 19 December 2012 Posted 19 December 2012 I've not read through but for anyone even slightly advocating it can jog on. Regardless of whether a child is disabled doesn't give them less rights than us, and certainly not less of a right to life. My sister has downs, and it has been a struggle at times, but I wouldn't change her or have her any other way. She's happy, and the way our family is today has been completely shaped by her. I'd argue she's one of the best things that's happened to us as a family, always there with a massive smile on her face to cheer you up. Absolutely pathetic bloke calling for this. EDIT: Before anyone jumps on this, if the family want to abort the child then fair enough, I can understand that, each to their own and all that because it is a struggle, regardless of whether I agree with it or not. But to call for it in the way this bloke has...
ithuriel Posted 20 December 2012 Posted 20 December 2012 I've not read through but for anyone even slightly advocating it can jog on. Regardless of whether a child is disabled doesn't give them less rights than us, and certainly not less of a right to life. My sister has downs, and it has been a struggle at times, but I wouldn't change her or have her any other way. She's happy, and the way our family is today has been completely shaped by her. I'd argue she's one of the best things that's happened to us as a family, always there with a massive smile on her face to cheer you up. Absolutely pathetic bloke calling for this. EDIT: Before anyone jumps on this, if the family want to abort the child then fair enough, I can understand that, each to their own and all that because it is a struggle, regardless of whether I agree with it or not. But to call for it in the way this bloke has... Actually most have said the same in that this is not really acceptable but you can guess the levels of Mock the Week style comedic content that followed , though i'm a little unsure whether Acooling was trying to be funny :xmasunsure:
Tom17LCFC Posted 20 December 2012 Posted 20 December 2012 Actually most have said the same in that this is not really acceptable but you can guess the levels of Mock the Week style comedic content that followed , though i'm a little unsure whether Acooling was trying to be funny :xmasunsure: Good to hear! Yeah I can imagine I'm not bothered with little tongue-in-cheek comments. Just had a read through the thread now you've said that, it somehow doesn't surprise me to hear acooling's views, each to their own I guess!
skinnydipper Posted 20 December 2012 Posted 20 December 2012 Come on then as i am interested, what is your take on this matter of this now ex UKIP member wanting the state to abort feotuses and what are your objections and against whom? I'm uninterested in your interest and if I wanted to throw myself into the mire of this debate I would have done so already.However, as I'm full of Christmas cheer, in simple terms, I wasn't too impressed by Coolings take on things but I'm not going to insult him and there are plenty of others who will take the point in opposition to his expressed view. As someone who argues for a living, for the most part I can't be arsed to embroil myself in many of the debates that go on in here but I am more often than not an interested observer. Whilst there is a lot of good debate on the forum generally it also has at least its fair share of knuckleheads. To name those that I believe fall into that category would just be inflammatory so I'll take issue with their posts as I choose.
Thracian Posted 20 December 2012 Posted 20 December 2012 I find that to be an abhorrent and disgusting viewpoint. All life is precious and it really does take all sorts in life. This viewpoint is verging on aryanism and it genuinely upsets me that anyone can think this way - to reduce the question of whether a child should live to a series of arbitrary viability or practicality based question is to miss much of what makes us all human. Couldn't agree more.
indierich06 Posted 20 December 2012 Posted 20 December 2012 It does seem slightly odd to me that countless healthy foetuses are killed daily by routine abortions ( often for financial or social reasons)and politicians can pretty much have their own opinions about it , but at the mention of disabled foetuses and everyone gets hot under the collar . Abortion is a personal choice and I'm sure people who do it don't do it lightly - I'm sure there are many who do it for the reasons you've stated, I'm sure there are people who aborted foetuses who are showing special needs because they're ill equipped to deal with it, but what this man is suggesting is state-sanctioned genocide. I have no problems with abortion at all, but the government should never be allowed to decide who lives and who doesn't.
ithuriel Posted 20 December 2012 Posted 20 December 2012 It is why debates like this should happen when ever someone in power chances their arm with these notions, best to shine a light on this and keep it unacceptable rather than let it fester in the darkness and ignorance of thinking it can never happen again because if we let it, it might very well come to pass one day.
The People's Hero Posted 20 December 2012 Posted 20 December 2012 Couldn't agree more. This must be a first! Hope you're well Thracian and Merry Christmas to you and yours.
The People's Hero Posted 20 December 2012 Posted 20 December 2012 Are you 100%, unquestionably pro-life then? I think that subjects like this are sensitive and that those of us outside of any given situation have zero right to dictate any rule or policy. It is a decision which should be made by the individuals concerned. At heart, I am pro-life, although I do accept that sometimes those involved do have to consider quality of life and other practicalities. What is ridiculous is the need to pigeon hole anyone with an opinion in to 'pro-life' or the opposite, partly because there is a huge, huge subjective middle ground and partly because unless we ourselves are directly involved with this sort of thing, then do we really know how we feel? And if it doesn't directly concern us, then do we really have any right to dictate or moralise. So if you want to put me in the 'pro life' box, that is probably where I'm happiest, albeit with certain reservations and caveats which I just hope I never have to fully explore.
Thracian Posted 20 December 2012 Posted 20 December 2012 This must be a first! Hope you're well Thracian and Merry Christmas to you and yours. Thanks - and to you and yours my friend.
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