The Horse's Mouth Posted 3 November 2013 Posted 3 November 2013 They were both guilty of the same thing, I must say I've least enjoyed this one because atleast in 11 I still watched the races to the end.
isaidno Posted 3 November 2013 Posted 3 November 2013 Alonso's win at Silverstone in 2011 as well then.
Brainy Posted 3 November 2013 Posted 3 November 2013 Germany from memory was a good battle between Hamilton and Alonso (and someone else????) Hungary went dry > wet > dry China can't remember much except Hamilton overtaking Vettel late on I don't even need to explain why Canada was exciting To keep it fair though feel free to chuck in one of Massa's wins from 2011.
Asha Posted 3 November 2013 Posted 3 November 2013 Behind Canada, Silverstone was easily one of the most exciting races in '11. So I'm glad isaidno renegged on that. And I did say I enjoyed Hungary this year, which Hamilton won! I'd have added more British wins to my favourite races of 2013, but, you know...
ADK Posted 3 November 2013 Posted 3 November 2013 A lot of Hamilton's wins have been exciting as he has rarely had an outright car advantage over anyone, while Button won several races in changeable conditions which is always exciting. I don't think Yas Marina is an exciting track at all. The only overtaking points are down the straights and drivers can get away with leaving the track limits without losing time let alone retiring on most of the corners. I wasn't bored because the Ferraris made things a bit more interesting and you can tell certain drivers like Massa, Di Resta and Huelkenberg are having to drive for their seats next year.
Amin Posted 3 November 2013 Posted 3 November 2013 I prefer 2013 to 2011. At least the first half of this year was interesting.
ADK Posted 3 November 2013 Posted 3 November 2013 I think 2013 was better than expected, I didn't think Mercedes would be capable of challenging for race wins and I thought nobody would bother to even challenge Red Bull with the regs changing next year. At least we had half a year of title uncertainty.
Legend_in_blue Posted 3 November 2013 Posted 3 November 2013 Why Won't Red Bull Racing Share Its Secret Technology With Mark Webber? Rumors are suggesting that three-time F1 champion Sebastian Vettel has been torching the competition this year thanks to a secret technology developed by Red Bull Racing. If true – and to reiterate, so far any evidence is just circumstantial – then Red Bull will have proven once again why it’s the best team on the circuit. Yet perhaps the most interesting question about a possibly heretofore unheard of technology is why the team hasn’t made it available to Vettel’s teammate, Mark Webber. The reason may have more to do with money than first meets the eye. First, some background. Many in the F1 world believe that Vettel’s car has some sort of traction control feature that is giving him an edge on the competition. Traction control, which has been outlawed in F1 since 2008, essentially allows drivers to hit the gas sooner when coming out of a turn. There is no reason to believe that Red Bull is breaking any rules – its cars have cleared all checks – just that the team’s engineers have possibly designed an incredible new technology. For those curious about the details, racing blog Jalopnik’s Raphael Orlove has a nice roundup of the supporting evidence that’s out there and how Red Bull may have legally created the traction control. Orlove rightly characterizes everything as speculation – even if some of that speculation is being done by the likes of Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso – but it seems rather clear that Vettel’s car is giving the German driver an advantage over the rest of his field, his teammate included. The clearest evidence came two weeks ago in Singapore when Vettel won with an absurd 32-second lead. That’s an astounding feat, and it may be no coincidence that during that race Vettel’s engine made a noticeably different sound when he exited corners. The grinding noise that comes from his car is unique among the cars on the track, as can be seen (well, heard) in this video taken from the race’s third turn: Orlove points out that the grinding sound emitted by Vettel’s engine is akin to that made by pre-2008 F1 cars that used traction control. Notice that Vettel’s Red Bull teammate, Mark Webber, is fourth through the turn. His engine doesn’t emit any grinding, and to my ear sounds no different from any of the non-Vettel cars. So if Red Bull has truly developed a legal form of traction control technology, which seems more than likely, then why hasn’t the team made that technology available to both of its drivers? Basic logic would seem to suggest that having two nigh-unstoppable cars would be a much stronger strategy than just one, especially when the presumable goal is to rack up as many points as possible throughout the season. The most compelling theory, at least considering the perceived drama involved, is the running feud between Vettel and Webber. The two drivers have clashed several times in recent seasons, most notably last year in Brazil, where Webber refused to help Vettel close out a victory, and again in Malaysia this year when Vettel stole a win from Webber against team orders. Many have since accused Red Bull of taking Vettel’s side, so much so that team principal Christian Horner had to publicly deny the team was sabotaging Webber’s chances (Horner has also denied the rumors of traction control). Yet the idea that Red Bull is depriving Webber the technology because of a personal grudge is deep into conspiracy theory territory. Not to mention that the soured relationship ought to have little bearing on anything because Webber will be long gone in a few short months. The 37-year-old driver is not only be leaving Red Bull at season’s end, but he’ll be leaving F1 altogether in order to drive in the FIA World Endurance Championship. I suppose it’s possible that Red Bull wants to maintain secrecy by not involving a soon-to-be disgruntled former driver, but the theory I find more plausible is that Red Bull simply doesn’t need Webber to have traction control in order for the team to succeed. Webber currently sits in fifth place in the driver standings, and Red Bull has a comfortable 118-point lead with five races to go. Considering that the technology undoubtedly costs a fortune to produce, it would make little sense to put it in a second car if the team will claim a fourth straight championship without it. Even more importantly, once the championship is clinched, then Red Bull ought to strive to score as few points as possible. The reason why is because FIA’s recently implemented entry fee changes make dominant success a particularly expensive endeavor. According to the new rules, the first-place team must pay a $500,000 base fee plus $6,000 per championship point. In other words, the more demonstrative the success, the more it will cost the team. To put the new fees into context, consider the last two F1 seasons. In 2012, Red Bull won with 460 points and a 60-point lead on Ferrari. Had the current entry fee system been in place then, the finish would have cost Red Bull $3.3 million with some $350,000 in extra spending for its points cushion. In 2011, however, the team won with 650 points and a massive 153-point lead. That means the season would have cost Red Bull $4.4 million with nearly $1 million coming just from the huge lead over second-place McLaren. F1 is already among the most expensive sports in the world, so the last thing Red Bull – which also owns a second F1 team – should do is spend big just for winning by more than it needed to. With a fourth straight title all but assured at this point, it simply makes no sense to give Webber the (again, rumored) traction control technology, even if it might be the most revolutionary development in the sport’s recent history. At least at the season end, when Webber leaves and shows them the middle finger, perhaps then the truth will come out and bite Red Bull on the ass. Unless next seasons changes to the regulations hinder Red Bull's apparent dominance through finding some loophole in the current reg's, I can't see anything changing next season. Which is a shame for the sport, but there you have it. At least when Schumacher was dominant, he made the team what it was, which was more reliant on his ability to drive the car than the mechanics behind it.
Amin Posted 3 November 2013 Posted 3 November 2013 At least at the season end, when Webber leaves and shows them the middle finger, perhaps then the truth will come out and bite Red Bull on the ass. Unless next seasons changes to the regulations hinder Red Bull's apparent dominance through finding some loophole in the current reg's, I can't see anything changing next season. Which is a shame for the sport, but there you have it. At least when Schumacher was dominant, he made the team what it was, which was more reliant on his ability to drive the car than the mechanics behind it. What? His car was just as dominant as Vettel's. What about Schumacher's 1994 championship-winning Benetton, which was widely regarded to have a hidden traction control system?
iamafox Posted 3 November 2013 Posted 3 November 2013 Hopefully next year's regulations will make it difficult for Red Bull to produce another championship winning car, they were virtually nothing before 2009.
Amin Posted 3 November 2013 Posted 3 November 2013 Hopefully next year's regulations will make it difficult for Red Bull to produce another championship winning car, they were virtually nothing before 2009. But that's because they only started up in 2005 and only got Newey in 2006. The fact that they won the championship 5 years after they joined F1 is incredible.
iamafox Posted 3 November 2013 Posted 3 November 2013 But that's because they only started up in 2005 and only got Newey in 2006. The fact that they won the championship 5 years after they joined F1 is incredible. Yes it was. And the way Vettel won his championship in 2010 was nothing more than dramatic. But then from 2011, it has been just pure dominance from Red Bull and Vettel and it isn't exciting for the fans who don't want to see the same driver winning all the time.
Amin Posted 10 November 2013 Posted 10 November 2013 Raikkonen is having back surgery this week, so he'll miss the last two races this year.
Jimothy Posted 10 November 2013 Posted 10 November 2013 Raikkonen is having back surgery this week, so he'll miss the last two races this year. Seem a bit coincidental after the wage row of recent weeks and his threats not to race?
Asha Posted 10 November 2013 Posted 10 November 2013 Yeah it does. I guess Valsecchi will slot in for Austin and Sao Paulo then?
isaidno Posted 10 November 2013 Posted 10 November 2013 Has Perez really been that bad that he deserves to lose the Mclaren seat for next season ?
ADK Posted 10 November 2013 Posted 10 November 2013 Has Perez really been that bad that he deserves to lose the Mclaren seat for next season ? It depends how you look at it. McLaren need to find a new "number 1" driver. Jenson isn't getting any younger and he is arguably slightly off the pace compared to Vettel/Alonso/Hamilton anyway. Perez doesn't come across as having the potential to be a new number 1. He reminds me a bit of Massa. I think ironically if Button was younger and McLaren were happy for him to lead the team, then I think Perez would keep his seat. But as they stand, I think want Jenson to be the experienced number 2 and find a new talent for the number 1 spot. They never really wanted Perez in the first place, they were just forced to take him because of Hamilton's unexpected departure.
The Horse's Mouth Posted 10 November 2013 Posted 10 November 2013 Has Perez really been that bad that he deserves to lose the Mclaren seat for next season ? He's a thug, shouldn't be in the sport at all.
isaidno Posted 10 November 2013 Posted 10 November 2013 Apparently Honda want Alonso back at Mclaren for 2015. Magnussen is a guy I've followed in British F3 and rate highly, but it's a big step up. The new rules will help the rookies a lot next year though ,
Amin Posted 10 November 2013 Posted 10 November 2013 Apparently Honda want Alonso back at Mclaren for 2015. Magnussen is a guy I've followed in British F3 and rate highly, but it's a big step up. The new rules will help the rookies a lot next year though , He won the equivalent of GP2 this year so I think he could manage the step up if McLaren don't heap any internal pressure on him.
Super_horns Posted 11 November 2013 Posted 11 November 2013 Massa confirmed at Williams. Need somebody of his experience and quality to improve them.
ADK Posted 11 November 2013 Posted 11 November 2013 Pleased by that. Will be interesting to see how Massa compares to whoever his teammate is.
The Horse's Mouth Posted 11 November 2013 Posted 11 November 2013 I'm looking forward to a Massa and Bottas partnership, but it's the car that needs improving rather than the drivers.
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