Referendum on EU membership

[Parafox]

Yes it's democracy and people should ideally vote based on a party's manifesto rather that a knee jerk "I don't like the look of him" or on the basis of populist promises.

Unfortunately that's what happens. I don't think a vote on Europe will be based on an informed decision.

[Harry - LCFC]

Democracy is a good thing but it can go too far, British citizens would not govern the county as effectively - I know that may seem a very obvious statement but you do need to realise that people don't always know what's best for them.

We wouldn't want a pure democracy where the population is called upon to vote on every political decision, that would disastrous. Consulting the electorate may not always be sensible - especially when they don't know too much about the topic - I for one am very much undecided on whether the EU is a good a thing or not, I would honestly have no idea if I would vote in or out.

As such, I can empathise with Milliband's point on a referendum being "dangerous."

[Webbo]

Yes it's democracy and people should ideally vote based on a party's manifesto rather that a knee jerk "I don't like the look of him" or on the basis of populist promises.

Unfortunately that's what happens. I don't think a vote on Europe will be based on an informed decision.

Presumably you'll make an informed decision though?

[Parafox]

Presumably you'll make an informed decision though?

I would like to think so yes. I'm not really au fait with the pro's and cons of leaving or staying but I hope there will be proper debate and information nearer the time.

Right now though, I still think it's cynical vote grabbing.

[purpleronnie]

Blimey, I was dreading this, I just hope he doesn't get in next time.

[The Doctor]

Well, it's a better vote spinner than the "look at my shiny forehead" campaign of 2010.

[Rincewind]

If they are voted back in we will get 'Yes I did promise but things have change since....Blah blah blah blah.

[Parafox]

If they are voted back in we will get 'Yes I did promise but things have change since....Blah blah blah blah.

Yes. I think he will use the reluctance of other EU countries to allow us to vote as a way of doing a U turn on this.

[z-layrex]

Like 99.9% of other people, I am not nearly smart enough to really know whether we should be in the EU or not.

[Fox in the North]

It would be good to be informed in an unbiased way of what the pros and cons are, but I'd be surprised that'll ever happen. I have no idea what I'd do as I have no political orientation (that I'm aware of). Itd be nice for a change if my vote wouldn't be used as a browie point for the politician making the decisions.

[MooseBreath]

If re-elected Cameron will renegotiate the terms of Britain's role in the EU before the referendum. People will then vote based on the result of those negotiations. It's looking increasingly likely that Labour will be back in by then anyway, so it matters not. But if it came down to it, Cameron would attempt to negotiate a better deal and then use that to sell the idea of staying in to the British public in the run up to the vote. If the Conservatives get back in then this will be all we hear about for a couple of years - plenty of time for everyone to make an informed opinion.

Personally I think that a compromise is ideal, but coming out is a lot more dangerous than staying in. Having a referendum on such an important issue is a very risky strategy. Even if Cameron negotiates a good deal there is no guarantee that the public won't vote to leave anyway. If election votes weren't an issue, he would never make this promise, instead he would renegotiate first and then take stock from there. It's a bit reckless to do it this way, and the chances of it not ending in tears - either an ill-considered EU withdrawal or the return of Labour - seem pretty slim to me.

[The Doctor]

If re-elected Cameron will renegotiate the terms of Britain's role in the EU before the referendum. People will then vote based on the result of those negotiations. It's looking increasingly likely that Labour will be back in by then anyway, so it matters not. But if it came down to it, Cameron would attempt to negotiate a better deal and then use that to sell the idea of staying in to the British public in the run up to the vote. If the Conservatives get back in then this will be all we hear about for a couple of years - plenty of time for everyone to make an informed opinion.

Personally I think that a compromise is ideal, but coming out is a lot more dangerous than staying in. Having a referendum on such an important issue is a very risky strategy. Even if Cameron negotiates a good deal there is no guarantee that the public won't vote to leave anyway. If election votes weren't an issue, he would never make this promise, instead he would renegotiate first and then take stock from there. It's a bit reckless to do it this way, and the chances of it not ending in tears - either an ill-considered EU withdrawal or the return of Labour - seem pretty slim to me.

Depends if you're trying to get her pregnant or not.

[Yojoe36]

Like 99.9% of other people, I am not nearly smart enough to really know whether we should be in the EU or not.

And bias bollocks by news outlets and institutions doesn't help. The EU will probably run a campaign (using our money no doubt), begging us to stay in.

[bmt]

Wondered when this would get brought up, potentially has implications on football (freedom of movement) as well. Knocky may never have arrived if it hadn't been for Britain's EU membership, although by the same token nor may Kermo.

[Guest MattP]

Wondered when this would get brought up, potentially has implications on football (freedom of movement) as well. Knocky may never have arrived if it hadn't been for Britain's EU membership, although by the same token nor may Kermo.

What an absolute pile of steaming turd that comment is.

[Captain...]

We need to stay in the eu and expand the eu, eventually we need a true global body to be able tackle true global issues.

To be honest the whole thing just smacks of more political posturing, with 0 substance, we will have a referendum in 4 years, fvck off, if you believe in a referendum call one, spineless little turd

[bmt]

What an absolute pile of steaming turd that comment is.

Wouldn't leaving the EU compromise the freedom of movement for workers policy then? So Europeans would have to get work permits. It was talked about on Sky Sports News this morning. Now obviously if I'm wrong, then you can tell me why, but if you want to be a grade A pr*ck instead that's up to you.

"Free Movement of Workers

Within the European Union workers are able to move freely between European Union Member States without the need for work permits and visas. Footballers for the purpose of the law are regarded as workers and so can rely on the EC Treaty.

As a consequence a club playing in England can procure the services or European footballers without the need to apply for a work permit for that player."

http://www.inbrief.co.uk/football-law/footballer-work-permits.htm

[Guest MattP]

Wouldn't leaving the EU compromise the freedom of movement for workers policy then? So Europeans would have to get work permits. It was talked about on Sky Sports News this morning. Now obviously if I'm wrong, then you can tell me why, but if you want to be a grade A pr*ck instead that's up to you.

It really shouldn't be that hard to work out.

We signed Tunchev and Bamba as well and Bulgaria or the Ivory Coast aren't in the EU.

Work Permits returning would be great mind, clear a lot of the foreign shit that's here out and give the local lads a chance, won't happen though, pretty sure the 'entertainment' business would as always be excluded from any work related red tape.

[bmt]

It really shouldn't be that hard to work out.

We signed Tunchev and Bamba as well and Bulgaria or the Ivory Coast aren't in the EU.

Bulgaria is in the EU and Bamba has French nationality, which also happens to be in the EU.

You that looks like the moron now.

Obviously lots of players can get work permits but they are usually exceptionally talented premier league players (or seasoned internationals (eg. Yuki Abe)), and therefore get them granted. The reason I brought up the cases of Knocky and Kermo is that if work permits were only given out on the basis of talent and prestige they may not have got them (not that Knocky isn't talented, just that it would be hard to prove so).

[Guest MattP]

Bulgaria don't come under the freedom of movement policy that the rest have though so it's irrelevant to the Tunchev case.

[MooseBreath]

We need to stay in the eu and expand the eu, eventually we need a true global body to be able tackle true global issues.

urgh, excuse me while i throw up

[bmt]

Bulgaria don't come under the freedom of movement policy that the rest have though so it's irrelevant to the Tunchev case.

I don't care I was just correcting you on EU membership. We had to apply for a work permit for Tunchev which was granted after a few weeks, as he had a reasonable number of international appearances (as I said about Abe). As my original point, if the freedom of movement policy wasn't there, Kermo and Knocky who have 0 full international appearances would have struggled to join us.

Next time you're going to be a tw*t make sure you're right first.

[Guest MattP]

I'm pretty sure general central European countries like France were always exempt from that. If it wasn't whoever let Franck Rolling through on exceptional ability needs sacking

It won't be an issue anyway, even if we withdrew we wouldn't put restrictions on entry for footballer.

If we can sneak through Adepoju Mulunga-Mubaba-Mauamba etc etc so we can take their tax money off them we won't be stopping Europeans coming here to play.

[bmt]

I'm pretty sure general central European countries like France were always exempt from that. If it wasn't whoever let Franck Rolling through on exceptional ability needs sacking

It won't be an issue anyway, even if we withdrew we wouldn't put restrictions on entry for footballer.

If we can sneak through Adepoju Mulunga-Mwubua-Mwauba etc etc so we can take their tax money off them we won't be stopping Europeans coming here to play.

To be honest you're probably right but leaving the EU would mean some players would have to apply for work permits who otherwise wouldn't which could lead to less scouting on the continent, and therefore a smaller talent pool to choose players from. I don't actually think this is a bad thing, was just bringing up the possible effects.

And Frank Rolling (just searched it) could join as EEC members have had freedom of movement since the 50s. However, the EEC is now the EC which I believe (could be wrong) the referendum is also targeted at.

[ADK]

Doubt we'll be banning footballers considering they are some of the few rich people that actually pay tax on their wages.