Swiss_tony Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 so a serious question. the wage bill has come down, and needs to come down even further for ffp next year. but we still have a huge amount of debt that isn't currently servicable on our turnover. whether you like it or not i'll take mid championship and having a club, than being Pimpey any day of the week. but if we don't make it this year, what are we going to do? The only logical choice i see is to give a manager (whoever) 2-3 years to build a side (remember when that used to happen??), because clubs can no longer throw the dice and hope to win the prem lottery with sugar daddy money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Fox Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 http://fcbusiness.co.uk/blog/?tag=championship The Championship has adopted a similar system to UEFA Financial Fair Play, where clubs must seek to balance their income and expenditure to ‘break-even’. Each season, on 1 December, clubs must submit accounts to the Football League to show a profit-loss before tax (excluding specific investment (e.g. infrastructure costs, youth development, and promotion related bonuses) or losses of an extraordinary nature (e.g default of debtor clubs or sponsors)) which must be show profit, break even or a loss less than the total of the permitted acceptable deviation and shareholder equity investment. A club is allowed to appeal to the Financial Fair Play Panel to argue that certain expenditure should be deemed “extraordinary†for the purposes of the break-even calculation, should it need to do so. Season 2011/12 2012/23 2013/14 2014/15 2015/16 onwards Acceptable deviation £4m £4m £3m £3m £2m Sharholder equity investment £8m £6m £5m £3m £3m Total permitted allowance £12m £10m £8m £6m £5m The first reporting period for the Championship will be for the current season (2011/12), with accounts to be submitted to the Football League on 1 December 2012. Despite this, there will be no sanctions imposed on any clubs who breach the rules during the first two seasons (2012/13 and 2013/14) which allows for transitionary measures to be implemented. However, from the 2014/15 season, robust sanctions will be introduced for any clubs which breach the rules, which will differ depending on whether the club is promoted to the Premier League, remains in the Championship or is relegated to League One. If a Championship club breaches the Football League FFP Rules and is promoted to the Premier League, that club will be required to pay a ‘Fair Play Tax’, which ranges from 1% of the excess between £1 and £100,000, up to 100% of any excess over £10,000,000. This can have a very profound effect on the club, as is indicated below. Any ‘Fair Play Tax’ paid by promoted clubs will be redistributed to those clubs in the Championship who have complied with the Football League FFP Rules. If a club breaches the Football League FFP Rules and remains in the Championship, that club will be subject to a transfer embargo which starts from the transfer window immediately following the submission of the accounts (i.e. the January transfer window) until such time as that club is able to file accounts which adhere to the Football League FFP Rules. That club will also not be eligible to receive any monies from Financial Fair Play Taxes imposed on promoted clubs. The Football League have confirmed that the form of the transfer embargo will ordinarily be to prevent any further players coming into the club, but may also restrict players leaving the club, if to do so would reduce the squad size to such an extent that the club may not be able to fulfil its remaining fixtures. If a club breaches the Football League FFP Rules and is relegated to League One, that club will not be eligible to receive any monies from the Financial Fair Play Taxes imposed on promoted clubs and will then be subject to the Football League FFP Rules of League One. However, such a club will not be subject to a transfer embargo, unless in so going down it then surpasses the SCMP threshold (see below). While some may argue that it is unfair, based on the considerable parachute payments that are awarded to relegated clubs by the Premier League, clubs that are relegated from the Premier League will not be subject to the Football League FFP Rules in their first season in the Championship, however, should they be promoted in that season, they will be subject to the Financial Fair Play Tax should they contravene the regulations during that season. A relegated club could therefore not simply ‘buy’ a route out of the Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss_tony Posted 15 April 2013 Author Share Posted 15 April 2013 yep, thanks, , i read that a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Fox Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 yep, thanks, , i read that a long time ago. So in answer to your question we have one more season to get promotion and can spend what we like within reason pretty much screwed if we are in this division from the 2014-2015 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deucalion Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 so a serious question. the wage bill has come down, and needs to come down even further for ffp next year. but we still have a huge amount of debt that isn't currently servicable on our turnover. whether you like it or not i'll take mid championship and having a club, than being Pimpey any day of the week. but if we don't make it this year, what are we going to do? The only logical choice i see is to give a manager (whoever) 2-3 years to build a side (remember when that used to happen??), because clubs can no longer throw the dice and hope to win the prem lottery with sugar daddy money. If they turn debt into equity, then we can start spending all over again !! Come on, forget the prudence...it was fun the first time !! Seriously though, I think we need to see the high wage earners leave, regardless of who they are. Then we need cheaper replacements for the players who have left; but cheaper players of similar ability. Then we need a manager who can quell the psychological impact, to players and fans, of favourites leaving. Lastly he needs to blend old and new into a unit which will win 40% + percent of games in the Championship. You say this is the plan for 2013-14, it actually seems like the plan for this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanSP Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 so a serious question. the wage bill has come down, and needs to come down even further for ffp next year. but we still have a huge amount of debt that isn't currently servicable on our turnover. whether you like it or not i'll take mid championship and having a club, than being Pimpey any day of the week. but if we don't make it this year, what are we going to do? The only logical choice i see is to give a manager (whoever) 2-3 years to build a side (remember when that used to happen??), because clubs can no longer throw the dice and hope to win the prem lottery with sugar daddy money. This is what the Pearson-haters can't and don't ever fathom. I like that the owners are seemingly sticking with Pearson because 1) he's a good manager as much as people like to think otherwise and 2) more importantly, he's very shrewd financially and has done very well so far in getting our wage bill done. The Pearson-haters also seem to forget that bringing in a new manager will NOT guarantee we go up but WILL mean we have to fork out more money for players he wants to buy. Not forgetting that some of them seem to want a manager already in employment, meaning we could be looking at paying compensation to buy that manager out of their contract as well as give them a contract where they'll want a fair whack of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seenitall Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 So this year and next to get out of this division......next season then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss_tony Posted 15 April 2013 Author Share Posted 15 April 2013 err yes, but the sanctions apply to the previous years accounts .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seenitall Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 I read there will be no sanctions in 2013/14 as 'there will be no sanctions in 2013/14'......... Am I being thick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deucalion Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 I read there will be no sanctions in 2013/14 as 'there will be no sanctions in 2013/14'......... Am I being thick? I believed sanctions applied next season; but I read the article the same as you. Maybe we are both thick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss_tony Posted 15 April 2013 Author Share Posted 15 April 2013 i believe clubs publish yearly accounts in May of each year. the ffp deadline is dec 1st 2014, with sanctions to be applied on jan 1st 2015, so i thought that meant they use the previous seasons accounts ie 2013/14, since 2014/15 season his only half way through at that point. so whilst no sanctions are implemented during the 2013/14 season, the sanctions are based on the accounts of the 2013/14 season. which is why we're offloading high earners right now, but i stand to be corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seenitall Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 Wouldn't it be funny/tragic if we had gone through all this because our owners got it wrong too - oh how we laughed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie1999 Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 Despite this, there will be no sanctions imposed on any clubs who breach the rules during the first two seasons (2012/13 and 2013/14) which allows for transitionary measures to be implemented. However, from the 2014/15 season, robust sanctions will be introduced for any clubs which breach the rules I believed sanctions applied next season; but I read the article the same as you. Maybe we are both thick? I think it means sanctions will apply for the 2015 January transfer window after the december 2014 review of the accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny the fox Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 pearson stays = decline continues.. with a open cheque book he couldn't do it, with a closed one, no chance, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seenitall Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 So we didn't need to freak out until next season and I assume many of the big earner contracts would expire by end of next season so.......Niges big plus point actually doesn't make any difference this year? Babylon will have an egg! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanSP Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 pearson stays = decline continues.. with a open cheque book he couldn't do it, with a closed one, no chance, Since when did he have an open cheque book? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seenitall Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 Only Beckford and Gallagher frrom the old Sven guard have 2015 contracts, the rest with 2015s are Niges bargains and the others have 2014s. So its all quite a bit of twaddle which lets face it, unless someone knows something different, means we didn't really have to worry. So we end up with a shite side for no reason - please tell me I have read this wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie1999 Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 The interesting part is that FFP excludes promotion based investment which means that if leicester are promoting king power they can spend what they like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny the fox Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 Since when did he have an open cheque book? . no rules this season on finance, tell me a player he has gone for this season and the owners have said no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseBreath Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 The interesting part is that FFP excludes promotion based investment which means that if leicester are promoting king power they can spend what they like. That loophole is effectively closed by the inclusion of some clause which says something like "must act in the correct spirit" or some bullshit like that. It gives the ffp number crunchers discretionary powers to assess whether or not that kind of investment is legitimate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seenitall Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 If you stay down after losing more than £5m then you have no financial implications but a transfer embargo, so why not get a great expensive side that you don't need to change and we should breeze the division ( he said) If you go up you get a fine but hey, you went up so whats the big deal - I think the Nige apologists have made much of this to excuse the mediocrity, but I am not convinced - someone must know what FFP really means Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseBreath Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 If you stay down after losing more than £5m then you have no financial implications but a transfer embargo, so why not get a great expensive side that you don't need to change and we should breeze the division ( he said) If you go up you get a fine but hey, you went up so whats the big deal - I think the Nige apologists have made much of this to excuse the mediocrity, but I am not convinced - someone must know what FFP really means You're right, the prospect of a fine probably won't put the more gung ho owners off taking a gamble. Which does of course render the advertised advantages rather impotent. But let's not pretend these rules are about protecting clubs, they're about solidifying the status of the elite and helping to prevent any challenge to their reign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promised land Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 A bit ironic that if a club spends big, gets promoted. The fine is a fair play tax. The whole idea of this is so clubs capped their spending, then they fine you for going over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny the fox Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 The idea the owners will continue to shovel money into this club is dangerous, I wouldn't , their hopes and expectations have been badly let down and undermined by men who have on paper, promised much and delivered a mouse..that goes for managers and players..I for one wouldn't blame them if they said fook it and threw the towel in and walked away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seenitall Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 The idea the owners will continue to shovel money into this club is dangerous, I wouldn't , their hopes and expectations have been badly let down and undermined by men who have on paper, promised much and delivered a mouse..that goes for managers and players..I for one wouldn't blame them if they said fook it and threw the towel in and walked away. They cant do that so it won't happen - they might sell us but would struggle while stuck in the Championship for a buyer. Better would be to get promotion, almost has to be next year as with Prem relegated teams not being subject to FFP it will get harder and harder to compete with mid table 'bargain'players. Its shit or bust for next year - expect Nige to get binned unless he pulls off the miracle- we will need someone next year who can bring in quality loan players that can get us out of this.......bring Sven back (joking) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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