StanSP Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 no rules this season on finance, tell me a player he has gone for this season and the owners have said no? 2 different situations you have here. Just because the owners don't necessarily say no, doesn't mean Nigel has an open chequebook. Nigel knows better than to just spend needlessly. You're naive if you think he'd just spend willy-nilly without a regard for the club's finances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seenitall Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 2 different situations you have here. Just because the owners don't necessarily say no, doesn't mean Nigel has an open chequebook. Nigel knows better than to just spend needlessly. You're naive if you think he'd just spend willy-nilly without a regard for the club's finances. So he has much more money available but because he is so brainy and conscientous he has decided not to spend it and put a budget though slightly underperforming side together. Personally I'd rather he'd spent the money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie1999 Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 That loophole is effectively closed by the inclusion of some clause which says something like "must act in the correct spirit" or some bullshit like that. It gives the ffp number crunchers discretionary powers to assess whether or not that kind of investment is legitimate. But there must be some sort of amount that can be put into the club from an owner that the club promotes or they would have another sponser on the shirt to raise money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny the fox Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 2 different situations you have here. Just because the owners don't necessarily say no, doesn't mean Nigel has an open chequebook. Nigel knows better than to just spend needlessly. You're naive if you think he'd just spend willy-nilly without a regard for the club's finances. me naive? its easy to spend other peoples money.. like bringing in Kane, in a desperate throw of the dice to save his arse. Im not "naive" where money is concerned. I won't go into details though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseBreath Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 But there must be some sort of amount that can be put into the club from an owner that the club promotes or they would have another sponser on the shirt to raise money. Yeah they'll be allowed to pay to sponsor the shirts and stadium etc but the amount will have to be reasonable and so will provide no additional benefit. They won't be able to just say they're sponsoring the shirts for £100m a year just to get money into the club. There might be other loopholes which haven't been closed yet though. The best creative accountants will be worth a fair bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 i believe clubs publish yearly accounts in May of each year. the ffp deadline is dec 1st 2014, with sanctions to be applied on jan 1st 2015, so i thought that meant they use the previous seasons accounts ie 2013/14, since 2014/15 season his only half way through at that point. so whilst no sanctions are implemented during the 2013/14 season, the sanctions are based on the accounts of the 2013/14 season. which is why we're offloading high earners right now, but i stand to be corrected. How I believed it works also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie1999 Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 So he has much more money available but because he is so brainy and conscientous he has decided not to spend it and put a budget though slightly underperforming side together. Personally I'd rather he'd spent the money Unless he has a bonus in his contract related to how much he doesn't spend out of his budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seenitall Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 Unless he has a bonus in his contract related to how much he doesn't spend out of his budget. Brilliant, so the crapper we are the more he gets, wish I had a job like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny the fox Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 So he has much more money available but because he is so brainy and conscientous he has decided not to spend it and put a budget though slightly underperforming side together. Personally I'd rather he'd spent the money There are no medals given out in may for being frugal..pound foolish penny wise.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seenitall Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 How I believed it works also Only believed? I rely on you to be the oracle, always right. Please don't tell me you have doubts about this now, it would make everything Nige undid pointless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie1999 Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 Yeah they'll be allowed to pay to sponsor the shirts and stadium etc but the amount will have to be reasonable and so will provide no additional benefit. They won't be able to just say they're sponsoring the shirts for £100m a year just to get money into the club. There might be other loopholes which haven't been closed yet though. The best creative accountants will be worth a fair bit. You mean something like west ham paying 40 million for a youth player from liverpool and paying half a million for andy carrol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 So he has much more money available but because he is so brainy and conscientous he has decided not to spend it and put a budget though slightly underperforming side together. Personally I'd rather he'd spent the money Does that sound like the owners had no say so in what money was there to spend? "We still have invested money into the squad. I think we have invested it more wisely. But also the timescale for FFP means clubs have to formulate a workable business plan. "The owners have been very supportive in how we have constructed the squad but, by the same score, there are areas we have had to look at as well. I am under no illusions about that. The margins are very small." "The FFP will be something that will affect an awful lot of clubs," "There will be a lot of clubs out there who will be thinking about how they manage themselves better. We have a responsibility to do that but also to deliver success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie1999 Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 Brilliant, so the crapper we are the more he gets, wish I had a job like that We were pretty crap when we spent a fortune on players and wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Fox Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 FFP is absolutely useless concept basically all prem clubs are exempt from it, maybe they are not but the huge revenue they get from Sky and the Tv deals means they can buy whatever players they want. Best thing to do is get promotion asap so we don't have to be restricted by these shitty rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 Only believed? I rely on you to be the oracle, always right. Please don't tell me you have doubts about this now, it would make everything Nige undid pointless Well I don't work for the football league, so I can only go off what is online. And seemingly you don't have a clue. Make what pointless? That he had to reduce a bloated over paid squad in line with what was to come. The owners have repeatedly said they are here for the long term and want us to be sustainable. You really think they are going to keep spending at the rate Sven was (on mostly crap) up until this summer? And then if we weren't up they would some how magically sell all these crap players when nobody else can afford to buy them? It's called planning ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 Only Beckford and Gallagher frrom the old Sven guard have 2015 contracts, the rest with 2015s are Niges bargains and the others have 2014s. So its all quite a bit of twaddle which lets face it, unless someone knows something different, means we didn't really have to worry. So we end up with a shite side for no reason - please tell me I have read this wrong Cheers Sven, thanks for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seenitall Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 Well I don't work for the football league, so I can only go off what is online. And seemingly you don't have a clue. Make what pointless? That he had to reduce a bloated over paid squad in line with what was to come. The owners have repeatedly said they are here for the long term and want us to be sustainable. You really think they are going to keep spending at the rate Sven was (on mostly crap) up until this summer? And then if we weren't up they would some how magically sell all these crap players when nobody else can afford to buy them? It's called planning ahead. But see previous post - most of the contracts end at the end of 2014 season and so are irrelevant. It seems Sven might have known what he was doing. We need to get up by end of 2013/14 and paying your way out is the best solution. The trigger of fear has been pulled too soon- only pain can follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie1999 Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 FFP is absolutely useless concept basically all prem clubs are exempt from it, maybe they are not but the huge revenue they get from Sky and the Tv deals means they can buy whatever players they want. Best thing to do is get promotion asap so we don't have to be restricted by these shitty rules. I think they should exclude the money sky pays clubs from the ffp calculations because its no different to our owners putting money into the club for naming rights on the shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deucalion Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 "Shareholder equity investment £8m £6m £5m £3m £3m" From the article. So my hope that the owners will just convert the debt to equity doesn't look possible? Unless they do it very soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie1999 Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 "Shareholder equity investment £8m £6m £5m £3m £3m" From the article. So my hope that the owners will just convert the debt to equity doesn't look possible? Unless they do it very soon. Is that per shareholder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 But see previous post - most of the contracts end at the end of 2014 season and so are irrelevant. It seems Sven might have known what he was doing. We need to get up by end of 2013/14 and paying your way out is the best solution. The trigger of fear has been pulled too soon- only pain can follow. You miss the point. Reporting Periods 2011/12 2012/13 mean no sanctions in 2012/13 and 2013/14. The accounts are always released a year after. Reporting period 2013/2014 (next season) with mean sanctions in 2014/2015 should you break rules. So yes, contacts up until 2014 will come into play the way I read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss_tony Posted 15 April 2013 Author Share Posted 15 April 2013 FFP is absolutely useless concept basically all prem clubs are exempt from it, maybe they are not but the huge revenue they get from Sky and the Tv deals means they can buy whatever players they want. Best thing to do is get promotion asap so we don't have to be restricted by these shitty rules. prem clubs are exempt for at least an extra year internally but it still kicks in at some point, plus there will be uefa sanctions for european games. pl clubs could be banned from europe if they break FFP rules as well as all the other stuff the PL could do to them xfer embargo, fines etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seenitall Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 You miss the point. Reporting Periods 2011/12 2012/13 mean no sanctions in 2012/13 and 2013/14. The accounts are always released a year after. Reporting period 2013/2014 (next season) with mean sanctions in 2014/2015 should you break rules. So yes, contacts up until 2014 will come into play the way I read it. Doesn't say that -clearly states no sanctions for 13/14 season, so we've been sold a pup. This is all bullshit and Nige has just chosen poor players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 Doesn't say that -clearly states no sanctions for 13/14 season, so we've been sold a pup. This is all bullshit and Nige has just chosen poor players Sigh. Read dates on football league site, you will see accounting period list starts one season prior to sanctions period list. You need to make the distinction between reporting period and playing season. Reporting period 2012/2013 ( this seasons accounts) relates to sanctions in playing season 2013/3014 (no sanctions imposed for rule breach). Next seasons accounts reporting period 2013/2014 relate to sanctions in playing season 2014/2015 (will be sanctions imposed for rule breach). Sanctions are imposed retrospectively as accounts aren't released straight away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aus Fox Posted 15 April 2013 Share Posted 15 April 2013 But see previous post - most of the contracts end at the end of 2014 season and so are irrelevant. It seems Sven might have known what he was doing. We need to get up by end of 2013/14 and paying your way out is the best solution. The trigger of fear has been pulled too soon- only pain can follow. Paying your way out worked so well for Sven didn't it? Remind me how long we spent in the top 6? Top 2? Things had to change or we wouldn't Have a football club in 5 years. The club has to be sustainable, the owners are business savy there is no question of this. They made a mistake in season one thinking we could buy our way out of the championship, this didn't happen and they won't make the same mistake again. Expect sensible additions and building a squad. If we don't go up this season, the championship will be weaker next season. The clubs coming up rant as strong as those going down. And the teams coming out of the premier league QPR will need to sell big time. Reading are poor, who know who the final team will be but Wigan could also struggle financially and would also have the added distraction of Europa Leagie. So keep the core the same add a strong central midfielder and a centre back as well as a couple of extra squad players for competiton we will be strong again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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