Emigrating

[Deucalion]

My daughter's boyfriend has just come back from an academic trip to New Zealand.

While there, he was asked to apply for a PHD at Waikato University by a member of staff at the university. As a geographer, it is a fantastic place to be.

He has been with my daughter for three years and it seems like a pretty stable relationship. She qualifies as a science teacher in a few weeks. This is a shortage profession in New Zealand and it almost guarantees a visa leading to residency.

DB has a year to finish on his undergraduate degree and then intends to do a masters. D can start looking for work from September. They could potentially move to New Zealand in 2015.

My first reaction to this was to be hugely excited for them. Of course I would miss them but the idea of starting a new life at their age in a new country seems like a fantastic opportunity. The standard of living is higher, New Zealand prides itself on having a good work/life balance and there is all that amazing landscape and coastline to explore.

I decided to check out a few details for them. During this process, I stopped thinking about their move...and started to think about my move.

I too have skills which are in short supply in New Zealand. My wife and I have looked at downsizing and moving into the countryside in England in a few years; but it is hugely expensive to do this. We could buy a house in New Zealand and have money left over to set us up. Growing old in New Zealand seems a much more attractive proposition than growing old in England.

We couldn't do it for a few years. We have elderly parents and I don't think we would go until they have checked out. In 8-10 years our mortgage will have reduced considerably and hopefully, house prices will pick up between now and then. All our kids should hopefully be living their own lives by then too.

If I could go tomorrow, I probably would. Anyone else thought of emigrating permanently?

[ADK]

I've thought of it.

NZ seems like the perfect place in theory. It's a similar climate to the UK, the landmass is close in size but the population density is far lower. The eastern economies collectively are doing very well. The tax burden is higher and welfare is supposed to be better than in the UK. (so good if you are left leaning).

But then there are friends, family, and cultural things i've grown to like in the UK.

[Guest]

Yeah I think about it a lot. I'd probably want to go to somewhere like Canada to be honest. If I do get through this snowboarding instructor course I could potentially do seasons in different countries which would give me the chance to figure out what it's like to live in different places and see where I like best.

Probably more of a medium to long term goal for me I reckon but it's always on my mind to be honest.

[Guest]

Weather is not that good in NZ.

Canada is a big country - which part you talking about Em?

[Guest]

Weather is not that good in NZ.

Canada is a big country - which part you talking about Em?

Often think Vancouver would be a decent place. Couple of good friends moved out that way to live and rave about it. Without having spent any time over there though I don't know for definite.

Probably gonna try spend a few weeks out there in Jan though snowboarding so hopefully give me a rough idea of the place.

[purpleronnie]

Guess it depends on the reason, I know people who have emigrated only to return. Its a massive step.

I couldnt move away from family they mean too much to me, if I was younger and got a fantastic job offer then I would be more likely. Its strange that a lot of reasons for emigrating I've read are a little odd. People mention crime but often move to countries where its just as bad, people mention open spaces but there are millions of places in the uk where its spacious, pace off life is another one I dont understand as if you have a problem living in a big city move to a village. Outdoor activities most of which can be found in the UK. Cost of living is another that crops up but many popular destinations for emigration have a very similiar cost.

I guess if your a sun worshiper then spain or someone like that may be a reason although I've always found it an odd reason to move.

I think sometimes people get the holiday fever when thinkiing of emigrating, but then realise all the problems that existed before (job, house, paying bills, etc) still exist but more problems exist (being away from family, friends, some feel like outsiders).

I know someone who moved to Australia and actually had a breakdown and has since moved back.

Whatvever you decide good luck.

[z-layrex]

A friend of mine moved to parnell to apprentice as a tattoo artist, her quality of life there is incredible, I say go for it. NZ looks like such an amazing place to live.

[Deucalion]

For me, it won't be until our parents pop off. So it gives us 10 years to think about it.

At the moment I am dead kean, maybe in a decade something will have changed?

I hardly see my friends and family since I've moved to the West Midlands, so truth be told, the separation here is already achieved.

Also, if D and DB do move there, we will almost certainly visit, so we could scout it out a little while we were there. We would have to filter out the 'holidays are great' factor though and try to get a proper feel for the place.

Here is a good website for anybody interested in comparing the standard of living in two countries.

http://www.expatexpl...dom/New-Zealand

[VLC86]

Often think Vancouver would be a decent place. Couple of good friends moved out that way to live and rave about it. Without having spent any time over there though I don't know for definite.

Probably gonna try spend a few weeks out there in Jan though snowboarding so hopefully give me a rough idea of the place.

I went to Whister on holiday in Jan and Vancouver/Whistler area is stunning.

Get yourself over there to see it for yourself but its something me and my partner have talked about as a possibility

[Matt]

I think about it, almost everyday, tbh I don't have much keeping me here but I feel I have a few people (And it is literally only a few) here I would find hard to leave and i'd feel i'd almost be forcing them in perhaps a decision of coming with me or not and I wouldn't want to put someone/force someone into that decision, on the other hand, perhaps I should be selfish and try it, do something for myself.

[Webbo]

It's been at the back of my mind for years but when I was invited to apply for a job in NZ last year it didn't take me long to decide it wasn't for me, certainly not while my mother's still alive.

[MooseBreath]

I'm off again In about three years. Thought about oz or nz. Lived in oz for a year a while back and loved it. NZ I think would be a nice place to 'settle down' with a pleasant climate and lifestyle. But I'm looking at Hong Kong or Singapore first if possible. Maybe the middle east if that doesn't work out. Really enjoyed South America too so if I could find work there I'd go.

I get that some people don't like being away from home, but personally I can think of nothing worse than living in the UK, or anywhere, for my entire life. Variety is the spice of life. I'd be bored as hell staying in the same place for years on end.

[ADK]

Its mostly family.

Also I can still travel the world.

[JimmyK]

I took a year out of my degree and went travelling (and working) for half a year in NZ and returned there for the rugby world cup the following year. I did absolutely love the place and would happily work there for a couple of years or something, but I don't think I could move there permanently. I would highly recommend having a long break there (if you can find the time) before you make any decisions.

I have to disagree with some of the above comments about the weather and climate, the south island (well, at least the bottom half of it, Christchurch and Dunedin) feels pretty much the same as here but the North Island (esp. Auckland and up) is much warmer. Wellington (in the middle) is a bit odd as it gets extremely windy because of the air currents in that part of the world.

I'm not sure I agree growing old there is that attractive a proposition, in many ways I'd say it's a much better place to be young than it is to be old. Away from the big cities it's extremely sparse (especially the south island) and this has knock-on implications for public transport etc (i.e. there basically isn't any besides private bus companies catering mainly to backpackers). In the South Island, unless you limit yourself to 1 town/city you'll have to learn to accept long car journeys or flights everywhere (though around the Auckland, Waikato, and Wellington areas it's much more built up so it may well not affect you at all).

The culture is much less materialistic and much more outdoor-focussed, outside of Auckland I never saw many flash cars and the like, and the average person is extremely friendly (e.g. a supermarket worker randomly told me she thought my shirt was lovely, and people in small shops always wanting to know if you're enjoying their country etc.).

On the downside the lack of fancy gadgets and expensive stuff could also be resulting from salaries being a lot lower (they have a big brain-drain to Australia, where salaries and the economy are much stronger). The scenery is stunning and has the most beautiful natural places I have ever seen, although obviously you won't get the same cultural heritage (there are colonial era museums and Maori cultural tours/evenings, but nothing that feels that 'old' like the castles etc. you get here, and I did start to feel like a lot of the town suburbs were just too 'new' and generic).

It's a bit like the UK in the 1970s in some aspects (everything is closed on a Sunday, very, very hard to find proper real ale, private schools still have weirdly Victorian looking outfits etc.), the distance and time-zone change does mean you're quite cut off in terms of communication from people abroad.

Anyway, before I go into a big(ger) essay, I'd say it really does depend on what you're after in a new country, each will have its positives and negatives. Looking back I've sounded a bit negative about NZ which wasn't my intention. It's an amazing place and I loved my time there, but I don't think I could move there permanently, and I'd advise anyone to be absolutely sure it's what you want.

[Deucalion]

I took a year out of my degree and went travelling (and working) for half a year in NZ and returned there for the rugby world cup the following year. I did absolutely love the place and would happily work there for a couple of years or something, but I don't think I could move there permanently. I would highly recommend having a long break there (if you can find the time) before you make any decisions.

I have to disagree with some of the above comments about the weather and climate, the south island (well, at least the bottom half of it, Christchurch and Dunedin) feels pretty much the same as here but the North Island (esp. Auckland and up) is much warmer. Wellington (in the middle) is a bit odd as it gets extremely windy because of the air currents in that part of the world.

I'm not sure I agree growing old there is that attractive a proposition, in many ways I'd say it's a much better place to be young than it is to be old. Away from the big cities it's extremely sparse (especially the south island) and this has knock-on implications for public transport etc (i.e. there basically isn't any besides private bus companies catering mainly to backpackers). In the South Island, unless you limit yourself to 1 town/city you'll have to learn to accept long car journeys or flights everywhere (though around the Auckland, Waikato, and Wellington areas it's much more built up so it may well not affect you at all).

The culture is much less materialistic and much more outdoor-focussed, outside of Auckland I never saw many flash cars and the like, and the average person is extremely friendly (e.g. a supermarket worker randomly told me she thought my shirt was lovely, and people in small shops always wanting to know if you're enjoying their country etc.).

On the downside the lack of fancy gadgets and expensive stuff could also be resulting from salaries being a lot lower (they have a big brain-drain to Australia, where salaries and the economy are much stronger). The scenery is stunning and has the most beautiful natural places I have ever seen, although obviously you won't get the same cultural heritage (there are colonial era museums and Maori cultural tours/evenings, but nothing that feels that 'old' like the castles etc. you get here, and I did start to feel like a lot of the town suburbs were just too 'new' and generic).

It's a bit like the UK in the 1970s in some aspects (everything is closed on a Sunday, very, very hard to find proper real ale, private schools still have weirdly Victorian looking outfits etc.), the distance and time-zone change does mean you're quite cut off in terms of communication from people abroad.

Anyway, before I go into a big(ger) essay, I'd say it really does depend on what you're after in a new country, each will have its positives and negatives. Looking back I've sounded a bit negative about NZ which wasn't my intention. It's an amazing place and I loved my time there, but I don't think I could move there permanently, and I'd advise anyone to be absolutely sure it's what you want.

Good points here, things I wouldn't necessarily have thought of.

I really like the idea of the 'outdoor' culture but I have to bear in mind, I won't be fit enough to enjoy that forever. Also, being old in a house in the middle of nowhere might not be a great idea either. I suppose the longer we leave it, the less good an idea it is. But...neither of us want to do it while our parents are alive.

It is a huge step and all the implications would have to be thought out well in advance.

If I could go tomorrow...I would, without hesitation !!

[MooseBreath]

Climates don't get much better than Auckland if you ask me. A little warmer in the summer would be nice, but for working and living it's about perfect. I'd be looking to live within a 45 minute radius probably north of the city.

Obviously further south is going to be colder and I wouldn't want to live down there.

[Bob Weasel Fox]

My old best mate from school days is now a New Zealand citizen as he has lived out there for several years now. He raves about how good it is and shows pics etc all the time to back it up, weather scenery etc

[purpleronnie]

My old best mate from school days is now a New Zealand citizen as he has lived out there for several years now. He raves about how good it is and shows pics etc all the time to back it up, weather scenery etc

That's another thing, no doubt some love it but its very hard to be negative about a change that big, it can be a state of mind that the grass has to be greener than its hard to snap out of that. For example the amount of times I heard about the amazing scenery yet we have some the most breathtaking scenery in the world right here in the UK but you rarely ever hear people talking about it.

[MooseBreath]

we have some the most breathtaking scenery in the world right here in the UK

You reckon? We have the odd nice beach but no weather to enjoy them. Nothing else really. Our lakes are nothing special, neither are our mountains, our countryside is pretty nice but when you grew up here it's hard to appreciate. I would say the scenery in the UK is in something like the 50th percentile. And that's only because large parts of land are just desert. Certainly not anywhere near "the most breathtaking scenery in the world".

[purpleronnie]

You reckon? We have the odd nice beach but no weather to enjoy them. Nothing else really. Our lakes are nothing special, neither are our mountains, our countryside is pretty nice but when you grew up here it's hard to appreciate. I would say the scenery in the UK is in something like the 50th percentile. And that's only because large parts of land are just desert. Certainly not anywhere near "the most breathtaking scenery in the world".

Not just me though I know many people who are from here and abroad who I have spoken too and they always...always mention the countryside and how beautiful it is, an american friend of mine regually visits devon and he describes it as the most beautful place he's ever been, maybe you haven't travelled much within the UK but theres little point me posting million pictures of the scenery we have here but it wouldnt take much googling to find the places.

if you need hot sunshine to enjoy scenery thats a different matter.

I definately think your point about not appreciating it because you grow up with it, thats definately true and thats the point I was making.

[ADK]

NZ has far more impressive geographical features imo. Its not that the UK is bad though.

[purpleronnie]

Not saying it hasnt, its just when I used to read and look at pictures from ex pats when I was in the states and I would often post very similiar pictures from the UK and it would piss them off, its as if they didnt want to believe that the UK had beautiful scenery....almost making me believe they were trying to justify them moving.

[Deucalion]

I've seen some pretty dramatic scenery around the world, from deserts and snow capped mountains in the US, verdant rainforests and jagged peaks in Mauritius, to the otherworldly charms of Iceland.

The truth is, scenery in other places is much more dramatic. Nothing in the UK really goes to an extreme. But...maybe that is the charm. Bill Bryson summed it up nicely. He said that, left to it's own devices, 'the US turns into a wilderness and the UK turns into a garden.'

On a sunny day, beaches in Cornwall are as good as anywhere, the Peak District and Dartmoor are bleak and brooding and Scotland just takes scenery to another level (but it never stops raining!). But, I think the beauty of the UK is that you can drive out of any urban area and, within minutes, find a small woodland, or a village of thatched cottages, or a river or a Saxon church.

I will miss these things about the UK.*

* If I do indeed leave.

[Zingari]

Go for it Deucy , it's not like it's the other side of the world .

OK geography is not my strong point and actually it is , but the world is a lot smaller now and and you'd regret it if you didn't try .

i know i do .

[Steven]

If people must emigrate, Australia is the way forward.