Ultra Posted 29 July 2005 Posted 29 July 2005 I once believed that all users of these boards were tolerant, rational human beings capable of reasoned discussion. Sadly it appears I was wrong... A small minority of users are exploiting their access to this forum to spread vile, racist, poisonous filth. They need to be stopped, before they do further damage to this site and to our club. These keyboard heroes would quite rightly be arrested and jailed for incitement if they dared to mouth off in the street in the way they do on here. It is simply NOT acceptable for anyone to call for a certain religion to be banned, even if acts of terror are committed allegedly in the name of that religion. Over the years, mass murders have been committed in the name of the Russian, German, American, even the British people. Yet to call for the banning of these countries would quite rightly be dismissed as absurd. Many fans, including myself, have spent years of effort driving the BNP and other fascist scumbags out of football stadiums. We are not going to let them back in now. And we certainly aren't going to let them gain a foothold on sites like this! PS Muzzy Izzet's a Muslim. Or have FOXES forgotten him already?
C-man Posted 29 July 2005 Posted 29 July 2005 damn right Ultra. Some of the posts (not naming names) have been disgusting.
Anish Posted 29 July 2005 Posted 29 July 2005 That is the reason why I have stopped using the general chat forum to a large extent.
kenny Posted 29 July 2005 Posted 29 July 2005 Have to say i thought the "Would banning Islam, grind out Islamic extremists?" thread would have been closed long ago, a topic titled like this is going to stir up some contraversial views from some people. I have'nt been personally offended but can imagine many people that would have been by the content.
Steven Posted 29 July 2005 Posted 29 July 2005 I am a firm believer in absolute freedom of speech and I fail to see how that could ever be a bad thing.
stez Posted 29 July 2005 Posted 29 July 2005 I am a firm believer in absolute freedom of speech and I fail to see how that could ever be a bad thing. 146463[/snapback] i pretty much agree with you steven and i enjoy debating with people who hold views different from mine, but this poster who's spent the last 3 weeks spouting crap on these boards, seems to be getting his kicks from winding people up.
Ricey Posted 29 July 2005 Posted 29 July 2005 There are a number of threads recently have included very 'controversial' posts, however they are mainly from only a small number of posters.
Thracian Posted 29 July 2005 Posted 29 July 2005 Have to say i thought the "Would banning Islam, grind out Islamic extremists?" thread would have been closed long ago, a topic titled like this is going to stir up some contraversial views from some people. I have'nt been personally offended but can imagine many people that would have been by the content. 146452[/snapback] Ask the millions of people in the World who have been denied free speech whether they want it or not. Like others, I do find some of the suggestions abhorent (not to say unrealistic) but free speech is not free speech if people put barriers up. Ask the Mao Chinese, the Stalin Russians, the German Jews, the Ayatollah Khomeini Iranians, The Pre-War Afghans have valuable is free speech. It's when you're denied it that you know the fanatics have won - not when it exists.
Thracian Posted 29 July 2005 Posted 29 July 2005 I once believed that all users of these boards were tolerant, rational human beings capable of reasoned discussion. Sadly it appears I was wrong... A small minority of users are exploiting their access to this forum to spread vile, racist, poisonous filth. They need to be stopped, before they do further damage to this site and to our club. These keyboard heroes would quite rightly be arrested and jailed for incitement if they dared to mouth off in the street in the way they do on here. It is simply NOT acceptable for anyone to call for a certain religion to be banned, even if acts of terror are committed allegedly in the name of that religion. Over the years, mass murders have been committed in the name of the Russian, German, American, even the British people. Yet to call for the banning of these countries would quite rightly be dismissed as absurd. Many fans, including myself, have spent years of effort driving the BNP and other fascist scumbags out of football stadiums. We are not going to let them back in now. And we certainly aren't going to let them gain a foothold on sites like this! PS Muzzy Izzet's a Muslim. Or have FOXES forgotten him already? 146445[/snapback] Just a word on a day when we are probably all celebrating the capture of alleged Islamic terrorists. A young friend of mine has recently been suffering from a urinary tract infection (probably picked up as long as three weeks ago on her flight from the US to England). All that time and one doctor and two nurse practitioners later, she was still in severe pain to the point of collapse having quite obviously been misdiagnosed. Eventually she passed out and was rushed to hospital where a doctor quickly took tests, ascertained the nature of the infection and prescribed immediately effective treatment. The doctor was a Muslim and I, for one, would have been glad to shake his hand had he not already moved on to help someone else.
toonboy Posted 29 July 2005 Posted 29 July 2005 Freedom of speech is a good thing of corse but things such as insightment (sp?) of racial hatred is illegal. Im not accusing anyone on here of doing that but if someone was to say ' I hate all Muslims. You should hate Muslims and you should kill any Muslim you see' that would be unquestionably wrong and you can't hide behind freedom of speech to put across those views.
Ultra Posted 29 July 2005 Author Posted 29 July 2005 There are a number of threads recently have included very 'controversial' posts, however they are mainly from only a small number of posters. 146500[/snapback] That may well be so. However, these posters are damaging the reputation of this site and therefore the rest of its users. Those in charge need to look at the situation and take appropriate action!
Thracian Posted 29 July 2005 Posted 29 July 2005 Freedom of speech is a good thing of corse but things such as insightment (sp?) of racial hatred is illegal. Im not accusing anyone on here of doing that but if someone was to say ' I hate all Muslims. You should hate Muslims and you should kill any Muslim you see' that would be unquestionably wrong and you can't hide behind freedom of speech to put across those views. 146519[/snapback] Shouldn't worry, my friend. The Muslims I know are well able to differentiate between a lunatic and a calculating antagonist. Would you fear anyone who was daft enough to come out with that sort of statement?. And how much support would he get?. That's not incitement. It's a rant. You might lock him up for his own safety but not for the protection of Muslims. Even if he had a gun I reckon he'd miss on account of being so pissed.
pink_flamingo Posted 29 July 2005 Posted 29 July 2005 wats a forum wen u cant put your opinion across
filbertway Posted 29 July 2005 Posted 29 July 2005 wats a forum wen u cant put your opinion across 146531[/snapback] Freedom of speech is a good thing of corse but things such as insightment (sp?) of racial hatred is illegal. Im not accusing anyone on here of doing that but if someone was to say ' I hate all Muslims. You should hate Muslims and you should kill any Muslim you see' that would be unquestionably wrong and you can't hide behind freedom of speech to put across those views. 146519[/snapback] dus tht anser in ne way
pink_flamingo Posted 29 July 2005 Posted 29 July 2005 yes i suppose, i dont recall saying that i hate all muslims though. cant remember
filbertway Posted 29 July 2005 Posted 29 July 2005 yes i suppose, i dont recall saying that i hate all muslims though. cant remember 146534[/snapback] No you didn't , I was just using that as he quite rightly says, whilst there are a lot of things you can say, there just somethings you can't say no matter where, even on forums
Steven Posted 29 July 2005 Posted 29 July 2005 That may well be so. However, these posters are damaging the reputation of this site and therefore the rest of its users. Those in charge need to look at the situation and take appropriate action! 146527[/snapback] That is a non sequitur.
MC Prussian Posted 30 July 2005 Posted 30 July 2005 The official LCFC messageboard experienced some pretty obnoxious crap posters in the last couple of months as well. It took a while (and the help of the PTV team and Mr. Jon Sanders) to permanently ban them from the forums. I am a fan of free speech (because it is part of our modern democracy). I expect a certain common sense from everybody. If not, I try and talk/write to them. If this should fail, THEN I can say they are better left alone and ignored. Or is it because so many people are just plain bored and have nobody to talk to? Are they frustrated with life in general? Are they unhappy? Suicidal? Or maybe you're just spending too much time on the internet and neglect what was once called a "real life" out there. Catch some fresh air, meet friends, get a girlfriend (I see only boys posting crap, ain't that weird? ). Enjoy life. Be happy. Do something. Move your body.
C-man Posted 30 July 2005 Posted 30 July 2005 People who have been denied the right to freedom of speech are generally in communist countries, and they are deprived of the right to say anything or vote against the current government. RACISM IS NOT FREEDOM OF SPEECH. It is abusive, disgusting, and pointless. I'm embarrased when i hear someone British racially abuse someone just for the colour of their skin, or their beliefs. They have as much right to pray 5 times a day, and live here as we do.
kenny Posted 30 July 2005 Posted 30 July 2005 Ask the millions of people in the World who have been denied free speech whether they want it or not. Like others, I do find some of the suggestions abhorent (not to say unrealistic) but free speech is not free speech if people put barriers up.Ask the Mao Chinese, the Stalin Russians, the German Jews, the Ayatollah Khomeini Iranians, The Pre-War Afghans have valuable is free speech. It's when you're denied it that you know the fanatics have won - not when it exists. 146506[/snapback] No worries about that im all for free speech and i also have my moments of saying things that are not necesarily PC. However, to ensure free speech is carried out sucessfully individuals must be able to censor themselves to ensure that offence is not caused to those that it concerns. I am aware that on a 'public' messageboard i cannot tell a racist joke, despite the idea of free speech saying that many people would find it funny. In conclusion, where a topic or a set of posts is looking likely to offend people, then IMO it should be removed particularly when on a sensitive subject similar to the one being discussed.
Thracian Posted 30 July 2005 Posted 30 July 2005 No worries about that im all for free speech and i also have my moments of saying things that are not necesarily PC. However, to ensure free speech is carried out sucessfully individuals must be able to censor themselves to ensure that offence is not caused to those that it concerns. I am aware that on a 'public' messageboard i cannot tell a racist joke, despite the idea of free speech saying that many people would find it funny. In conclusion, where a topic or a set of posts is looking likely to offend people, then IMO it should be removed particularly when on a sensitive subject similar to the one being discussed. 146577[/snapback] Free speech will always offend someone. Look at the number of comedians who can no longer get a booking in local authority administered venues. It's a bloody disgrace and it's happened because the decision makers have their own goals. If people don't want to hear em they shouldn't go. If I'm offended by people telling "English" jokes then I don't have to listen but I'm not. They are jokes, for God's sake. It's the same with Irish jokes and ethnic jokes and mother-in-law jokes and wife jokes and golfer jokes and sex jokes. They are told to make you laugh not to launch a political initiatice or antagonistic campaign. And if you don't think they're funny don't laugh or don't go. Life is full of things I don't like but no-one does anything about em. I don't like speed cameras, I don't like dithering drivers, I don't like politicians posing as clerics and I don't want to hear the leader of the Birmingham mosque on telly. But I have to put up with them because we are surrounded by hypocrites and the PC apologists lead the way. It is public knowledge we're even told in this LAND OF THE FREE what plays we can stage at the theatre and they'll be telling us what loo paper to use next. We should not concede another half an inch to the PC brigade. Many of them are traitors to this country with agendas all of their own. My God its almost an offence to fly the Union Jack - people really have been ordered to take it down - just as they have been told to curb Christmas celebrations - and all because SOMEONE IS OFFENDED. Basically, if its an English tradition, it can continue so long as some ethnic minority doesn't mind and that is what is wrong today - the tolerance is more and more in one direction only. The BBC is forever leading the way with that attitude because it is a veiled political body with any number of determined activists. Believe me I don't give a damn about Muslims and Hindu's and Martians if you like having their celebrations and maintaining their traditions - the Caribbean carnival and Asian Festival of Id in Belgrave Road are marvellous - but when PC people start messing with our traditions and our way of life it makes me sick. I've mentioned a few irritations but I'll tell you what offends me more than anything. It is people like you who don't appreciate the value of freedoms that are fast being eroded and who would surrender the rest without a second thought. How can you have free speech and censorship? It's a contradiction in terms. The only people against free speech are oppressors or would be oppressors, you should remember that. I am not against the law banning incitement (that is just common sense and for the common good) but freedom of speech and expression is a pillar of our community and we shouldn't allow it to be steamrollered just because "SOMEONE IS OFFENDED".
kenny Posted 30 July 2005 Posted 30 July 2005 I've mentioned a few irritations but I'll tell you what offends me more than anything. It is people like you who don't appreciate the value of freedoms that are fast being eroded and who would surrender the rest without a second thought.How can you have free speech and censorship? It's a contradiction in terms. 146588[/snapback] Its quite impressive just quite how wrong you have got me. I agree with a fair quantity of what you say, but my good manners dictate where and when i personally use my right to free speech. So therefore i use my manners to consider what i write before putting it on a public messageboard, i wouldnt say half the things i say in real life on this board or any other, as i do not know how other people would take what i say.
Thracian Posted 30 July 2005 Posted 30 July 2005 Its quite impressive just quite how wrong you have got me. I agree with a fair quantity of what you say, but my good manners dictate where and when i personally use my right to free speech. So therefore i use my manners to consider what i write before putting it on a public messageboard, i wouldnt say half the things i say in real life on this board or any other, as i do not know how other people would take what i say. 146593[/snapback] I certainly didn't mean to offend your good manners. If you refrain from saying something out of consideration for others that is to be lauded. If you refrain from saying something because you feel you are not allowed to or because people might disagree then you've been supressed. Perhaps I could learn from you about manners but I do believe it far better to debate issues than have people fighting wars over them and blasting each other with bombs in the street. Even the IRA would seem to have come round to that. Words might hurt or offend people but they don't kill people and the response they provoke doesn't usually kill people either. Sooner or later passion cools, dialogue takes over and solutions are found.
Hullfox Posted 30 July 2005 Posted 30 July 2005 My take on it is this: We obviously do not live in a society where free speech is allowed. Censorship comes in all forms as people have already mentioned i.e. anti-incitement laws and libel laws etc which in the main are well intentioned if not too PC. However, the interesting thing for me is quite the reverse of the initial post. Yes, the majority of us feel distaste towards one side of what was said in another thread but the good thing is look at the amount of posters who spoke up against such drivel, showing the lone voice to be just that - alone. So, power to the forum for re-opening the thread and allowing the right minded individuals to oppose such draconian output. It actually made me feel better about things seeing such unanimity on show.
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