Woolwich

[Rincewind]

[Fox92]

Was out yesterday, and in a shop window I saw a t-shirt with the anti-Christ symbol printed on it. Made me think, if any shop had the same shirt with anti-Islam on, it would be removed and people would demonstrate against it.

[Rincewind]

More likely any demonstration would make the news than an anti christ shirt. In deep South America on the Bible Belt there would be riots.

[Webbo]

More likely any demonstration would make the news than an anti christ shirt. In deep South America on the Bible Belt there would be riots.

There really wouldn't.

[inckley fox]

So far the only ones blowing people up and beheading people in the street are Muslims fact. I don't need to prove Enoch was right the events have done it for him.

 

Since his great speech:

 

48,000 people have been injured in Catholic-Protestant skirmishes in the British Isles. 3500 died (1970-1998).

 

And, yes, 56 people died due to Islamic extremism (2005).

 

As for soldiers, yes we lost one to Islamic extremists in Woolwich in 2013. And two to Catholic extremists in 2009.

 

A complete tragedy - yes. A sign that problems within some elements of the Islamic community require action - certainly. Rivers of blood - not by any stretch.

[flowwolf]

Since his great speech:

 

48,000 people have been injured in Catholic-Protestant skirmishes in the British Isles. 3500 died (1970-1998).

 

And, yes, 56 people died due to Islamic extremism (2005).

 

As for soldiers, yes we lost one to Islamic extremists in Woolwich in 2013. And two to Catholic extremists in 2009.

 

A complete tragedy - yes. A sign that problems within some elements of the Islamic community require action - certainly. Rivers of blood - not by any stretch.

 

 

But it's only just started I'm afraid.

[DennisNedry]

Since his great speech:

 

48,000 people have been injured in Catholic-Protestant skirmishes in the British Isles. 3500 died (1970-1998).

 

And, yes, 56 people died due to Islamic extremism (2005).

 

As for soldiers, yes we lost one to Islamic extremists in Woolwich in 2013. And two to Catholic extremists in 2009.

 

A complete tragedy - yes. A sign that problems within some elements of the Islamic community require action - certainly. Rivers of blood - not by any stretch.

 

Not that I'm a 'fan' of Powell, but this is a bit of an unfair comparison don't you think mate?

 

You're comparing figures between one set of extremist events which is now almost entirely over, and one set of extremist events which is only just beginning and will certainly continue to worsen.

[inckley fox]

Not that I'm a 'fan' of Powell, but this is a bit of an unfair comparison don't you think mate?

 

You're comparing figures between one set of extremist events which is now almost entirely over, and one set of extremist events which is only just beginning and will certainly continue to worsen.

 

I wasn't the one who made the comparison!

 

No, I'm responding to people who say that 'Muslims are the only ones blowing each other up' or 'posing a threat to our freedom'. In the eight years since I found myself two stops down from those attacks as they happened, there has been one Islamic fundamentalist murder, and two Irish ones. I'm responding to people who say that 'their religion' is to blame for this, and I'm doing that by pointing out that, since Powell's prediction, sixty times more people have died through Christian violence - in the British Isles - than through Muslim violence.

 

I suspect you are right and that this problem will overtake the Irish one in the future. But that isn't the case yet and, if/when this does become the case, it will not be the specific ins-and-outs of Islam that are responsible any more than past religious terrorism has owed itself to a fundamental flaw of, say, Christianity (Ireland, the Crusades etc.) or Sikhism (Air India attack etc.).

[Dr The Singh]

I wasn't the one who made the comparison!

 

No, I'm responding to people who say that 'Muslims are the only ones blowing each other up' or 'posing a threat to our freedom'. In the eight years since I found myself two stops down from those attacks as they happened, there has been one Islamic fundamentalist murder, and two Irish ones. I'm responding to people who say that 'their religion' is to blame for this, and I'm doing that by pointing out that, since Powell's prediction, sixty times more people have died through Christian violence - in the British Isles - than through Muslim violence.

 

I suspect you are right and that this problem will overtake the Irish one in the future. But that isn't the case yet and, if/when this does become the case, it will not be the specific ins-and-outs of Islam that are responsible any more than past religious terrorism has owed itself to a fundamental flaw of, say, Christianity (Ireland, the Crusades etc.) or Sikhism (Air India attack etc.).

Not true, there is substantial evidence and well known with the Canadian secret service that this was done by the Indian government, no Sikh has been convicted and no Sikh group has taken responsibility for the attack.  All attacks done by Sikhs have always been validated.

[inckley fox]

Not true, there is substantial evidence and well known with the Canadian secret service that this was done by the Indian government, no Sikh has been convicted and no Sikh group has taken responsibility for the attack.  All attacks done by Sikhs have always been validated.

 

Ten years ago a member of Babbar Kalsa (sp.?) pleaded guilty to manslaughter and admitted making the bomb.

[leicester_singh]

Ten years ago a member of Babbar Kalsa (sp.?) pleaded guilty to manslaughter and admitted making the bomb.

Yeah, the government was using a police force called "black cats". They dressed as Sikhs and went around killing Hindus and Sikhs then blaming the freedom groups. I can try find a newspaper article about a Hindu man who said how his father (who was in the police force) was asked to grow his hair and then attack innocent people.

There is a question mark above this whole case.

If they were Sikhs then this air bombing did nothing to help the cause and was a cowardly act.

[Dr The Singh]

Ten years ago a member of Babbar Kalsa (sp.?) pleaded guilty to manslaughter and admitted making the bomb.

Yes Reyat was the bomb maker, who was the stoog of the RAW ( Indian Secret Service), who setup and planted and exercised the whole plan.  Calling it a Sikh act is a misnomer when the architects were the Indian government, unfortunately there were black cats (Indians dressed as Sikhs) and some Sikhs zealots that were party to it.

[inckley fox]

Yes Reyat was the bomb maker, who was the stoog of the RAW ( Indian Secret Service), who setup and planted and exercised the whole plan.  Calling it a Sikh act is a misnomer when the architects were the Indian government, unfortunately there were black cats (Indians dressed as Sikhs) and some Sikhs zealots that were party to it.

 

It would be interesting to read up on this, if you know of any good links / books.

[Dr The Singh]

It would be interesting to read up on this, if you know of any good links / books.

Yes, loads of studies and documentaries online.

 

There's also a book written called Soft Target, written by 2 non Sikhs, which not wholly accurate in the background but does provide evidence of India's involvement and subjugation of the Canadian secret service.

 

RAW and Black cats were created to tackle the Sikh uprising during the 80's, they were trained by the Brits, the British actually trainedIndia forces for the attack on the golden temple 18 months prior.   There surprising success has lead to there expeansion for all of India's secret op's.  RAW infiltration isplaying a big part in Afghan and Balochistan in anti pakistani activities.

[inckley fox]

Yes, loads of studies and documentaries online.

 

There's also a book written called Soft Target, written by 2 non Sikhs, which not wholly accurate in the background but does provide evidence of India's involvement and subjugation of the Canadian secret service.

 

RAW and Black cats were created to tackle the Sikh uprising during the 80's, they were trained by the Brits, the British actually trainedIndia forces for the attack on the golden temple 18 months prior.   There surprising success has lead to there expeansion for all of India's secret op's.  RAW infiltration isplaying a big part in Afghan and Balochistan in anti pakistani activities.

Thanks for that. I'll have a good look and see what I make of it.

[MikeyT]

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Attacks-Somalis-killing-Lee-Rigby/story-19270939-detail/story.html

 

Members of the Somali community fear they are suffering an anti-Islamic backlash following the death of soldier Lee Rigby. Somalis said they have been spat at, verbally abused and, in some cases, thugs have tried to pull off women's veils or scarves.

Jawaahir Daahir, founder and chief executive of Somali Development Services, a community group in Highfields, Leicester, said it was hearing more reports of abuse than it would usually expect.

The group met senior police officers on Tuesday to outline its concerns.

Ms Daahir said: "You cannot know what motivates people to do these things, but we have noticed an increase in incidents since the tragic death of Lee Rigby.

"There has been swearing and racist language in some cases, but also there have been incidents of people being attacked.

"We have heard a woman had to run into a shop in the city centre to escape from some men and we have also heard stories of two women being spat at.

"Another woman posted on Facebook that she was afraid to leave her home and felt she was under house arrest."

Chief Superintendent Rob Nixon, head of policing in the city, said reported incidents would be investigated.

He said: "The incidents referred to by Jawaahir are very concerning.

"I would urge anyone with information or who has suffered to contact us.

"Since the death of Lee Rigby, we have been carrying out significant work within the community, including daily messages to community leaders, reassurance visits and patrols.

"We pride ourselves on the strong relationship we have with the Somali community and hope if there are any concerns regarding the recent events they can approach us with confidence."

Suleman Nagdi, spokesman for Leicestershire's Federation of Muslim Organisations, said: "We have not picked up on any increase in incidents since the tragic death of Lee Rigby.

"There is always the possibility these things are happening to people but are not being reported to the police.

"We would urge people to report all incidents of this nature, so the people who are responsible can be held to account."

Officers are searching for a cyclist who tried to pull off a Muslim woman's face veil as he rode past her in London Road, Leicester.

The woman was targeted as she walked with her family to Victoria Park at 6.50pm on Sunday, May 26.

On Monday this week, the letters EDL – thought to refer to the English Defence League – were written on a bin at Oadby Islamic Centre, in Sandhurst Street.

In the past year, Leicestershire Police said it had seen a 9.9 per cent reduction in hate crimes – with 44 fewer offences than in the previous year.

[flowwolf]

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Attacks-Somalis-killing-Lee-Rigby/story-19270939-detail/story.html

 

Members of the Somali community fear they are suffering an anti-Islamic backlash following the death of soldier Lee Rigby. Somalis said they have been spat at, verbally abused and, in some cases, thugs have tried to pull off women's veils or scarves.

Jawaahir Daahir, founder and chief executive of Somali Development Services, a community group in Highfields, Leicester, said it was hearing more reports of abuse than it would usually expect.

The group met senior police officers on Tuesday to outline its concerns.

Ms Daahir said: "You cannot know what motivates people to do these things, but we have noticed an increase in incidents since the tragic death of Lee Rigby.

"There has been swearing and racist language in some cases, but also there have been incidents of people being attacked.

"We have heard a woman had to run into a shop in the city centre to escape from some men and we have also heard stories of two women being spat at.

"Another woman posted on Facebook that she was afraid to leave her home and felt she was under house arrest."

Chief Superintendent Rob Nixon, head of policing in the city, said reported incidents would be investigated.

He said: "The incidents referred to by Jawaahir are very concerning.

"I would urge anyone with information or who has suffered to contact us.

"Since the death of Lee Rigby, we have been carrying out significant work within the community, including daily messages to community leaders, reassurance visits and patrols.

"We pride ourselves on the strong relationship we have with the Somali community and hope if there are any concerns regarding the recent events they can approach us with confidence."

Suleman Nagdi, spokesman for Leicestershire's Federation of Muslim Organisations, said: "We have not picked up on any increase in incidents since the tragic death of Lee Rigby.

"There is always the possibility these things are happening to people but are not being reported to the police.

"We would urge people to report all incidents of this nature, so the people who are responsible can be held to account."

Officers are searching for a cyclist who tried to pull off a Muslim woman's face veil as he rode past her in London Road, Leicester.

The woman was targeted as she walked with her family to Victoria Park at 6.50pm on Sunday, May 26.

On Monday this week, the letters EDL – thought to refer to the English Defence League – were written on a bin at Oadby Islamic Centre, in Sandhurst Street.

In the past year, Leicestershire Police said it had seen a 9.9 per cent reduction in hate crimes – with 44 fewer offences than in the previous year.

 

Oh dear, still no ones running cars into them and then attacking them while they are on the floor with machetes and stabbing them to death and beheading them. Or waiting till the they sit on trains and buses and blowing them to bits.

 

It's a tough world and one of their own religions makings  Are they really surprised at some kind of backlash ?

[Webbo]

Oh dear, still no ones running cars into them and then attacking them while they are on the floor with machetes and stabbing them to death and beheading them. Or waiting till the they sit on trains and buses and blowing them to bits.

 

It's a tough world and one of their own religions makings  Are they really surprised at some kind of backlash ?

Bit silly? Surely you don't blame every Irish person for the IRA? Collective guilt is a stupid concept.

[Captain...]

Oh dear, still no ones running cars into them and then attacking them while they are on the floor with machetes and stabbing them to death and beheading them. Or waiting till the they sit on trains and buses and blowing them to bits.

It's a tough world and one of their own religions makings Are they really surprised at some kind of backlash ?

But do you not think that this backlash could cause more problems? If you take it as two nutters killed a man, said nutters are in jail and will be convicted. Then it is done. We start persecuting all Muslims we are going to create more radical nutters, and therefore more chance of incidents like that in Woolwich.

We can't condone these attacks, in the same way the Muslim community spoke out against the killing of Lee Rigby, we should be doing the same, not saying, well it's ok as they haven't killed anyone yet, only firebombed schools and mosques and community centres, but nobody died so that makes it ok.

[flowwolf]

Bit silly? Surely you don't blame every Irish person for the IRA? Collective guilt is a stupid concept.

 

But effective non the less.

[Captain...]

But effective non the less.

Effective at what? Creating more extremists, death and terror?

[Fox92]

The people that have died in terrorists attacks (9/11, 7/7 etc) were not soldiers, and had nothing to do with the war with Iraq (or whatever it is they always refer too). But they were still killed innocently.

One man led Germany through a war, and he wasn't even German, but people still seem to 'hate' Germans.

It's not just Muslims this is/has happened too.

[Captain...]

The people that have died in terrorists attacks (9/11, 7/7 etc) were not soldiers, and had nothing to do with the war with Iraq (or whatever it is they always refer too). But they were still killed innocently.

One man led Germany through a war, and he wasn't even German, but people still seem to 'hate' Germans.

It's not just Muslims this is/has happened too.

Pretty sure it was Germans killing the Jews and the gays and gypsies though, even if it was under the leadership of an Austrian, but leading Germany.

What is your point it is ok? It isn't ok? Or it's just nothing new?

[flowwolf]

But do you not think that this backlash could cause more problems? If you take it as two nutters killed a man, said nutters are in jail and will be convicted. Then it is done. We start persecuting all Muslims we are going to create more radical nutters, and therefore more chance of incidents like that in Woolwich.

We can't condone these attacks, in the same way the Muslim community spoke out against the killing of Lee Rigby, we should be doing the same, not saying, well it's ok as they haven't killed anyone yet, only firebombed schools and mosques and community centres, but nobody died so that makes it ok.

 

I did not say it was ok. I said do not be surprised if peoples tolerance has evaporated. We have had people on her claiming those two murderers were not nutters ( ring any bells ) but had some sort of reason to do what they did. If there is a backlash  can the ethnic community these two brainwashed Islamic terrorist come from be they be surprised ? 

 

May be it will take until you yourself are sitting in a wheelchair with no legs because you took a London bus or tube one day or get a phone call to tell you your husband / wife / children have been blown to bits before you can qualify to be so judgemental on those who realise what is going on and decide to do something about it , because your government who let these wholly unsuitable people in to our society are not capable of doing it.

[Fox92]

Pretty sure it was Germans killing the Jews and the gays and gypsies though, even if it was under the leadership of an Austrian, but leading Germany.

What is your point it is ok? It isn't ok? Or it's just nothing new?

I just thought, this is nothing new...

These articles constantly posted about Muslims, but what do they expect? They aren't the first to receive it, and they won't be the last.

(I'm not saying its right either, I'm not arguing with anyone. I'd like to see a World where everyone gets along with everyone, without the thought of a attack/war, but this will never happen).