Guest MattP Posted 5 June 2013 Posted 5 June 2013 Also was it an actual Mosque or a Somali Community Centre?? Changes depending on which news site you read, quite important information. edit: It isn't a Mosque. He added: 'What I would like to say is what a positive response we have had from the community. They have shown real unity across faiths. 'By 8am this morning representatives of the Jewish and Christian communities had phoned me to offer support. 'We don't know at this stage who is responsible or what their motivation is but the community has responded brilliantly. Community leaders have been calm and have shown amazing resolution. 'They have told me they have existed in this community peacefully for 20 years. They believed they were living peacefully and have always been supported by the community. 'This is not a mosque, it's a conference centre. Somalian and Sudanese kids have Arabic classes there. I have no information it is used for prayers. 'It is definitely not a mosque but it obviously has cultural significance to this Somalian community, who are devastated by this fire.'
purpleronnie Posted 5 June 2013 Posted 5 June 2013 Also was it an actual Mosque or a Somali Community Centre?? Changes depending on which news site you read, quite important information. I agree it is important, I guess if we discussing the possibility of this being a crime committed by one group trying to pin blame on another then I can't see a muslim burning one down, but a community centre then maybe...it at least becomes a possibility....But it could also be some random nut job. That's the problem we face now, its one of confusion, who did what, who's to blame. People seem to be nailing their colours to the mast even when the facts haven't come out, thats why i find disturbing.
Guest MattP Posted 5 June 2013 Posted 5 June 2013 I agree it is important, I guess if we discussing the possibility of this being a crime committed by one group trying to pin blame on another then I can't see a muslim burning one down, but a community centre then maybe...it at least becomes a possibility....But it could also be some random nut job. That's the problem we face now, its one of confusion, who did what, who's to blame. People seem to be nailing their colours to the mast even when the facts haven't come out, thats why i find disturbing. It's bizarre isn't it. Just had a look on Twitter and the EDL leader has denied involvement and says he is 'sceptical' as this has happened 26 times before in Luton with things being firebombed and EDL graffiti appearing nearby. You really do hope we don't have people on either side that are going to start doing things like destroying Islamic venues or War Memorials to try and stoke up tensions.
purpleronnie Posted 5 June 2013 Posted 5 June 2013 It's bizarre isn't it. Just had a look on Twitter and the EDL leader has denied involvement and says he is 'sceptical' as this has happened 26 times before in Luton with things being firebombed and EDL graffiti appearing nearby. You really do hope we don't have people on either side that are going to start doing things like destroying Islamic venues or War Memorials to try and stoke up tensions. That's certainy a huge concern. I just hope it all settles down soon.
leicsmac Posted 5 June 2013 Posted 5 June 2013 It's bizarre isn't it. Just had a look on Twitter and the EDL leader has denied involvement and says he is 'sceptical' as this has happened 26 times before in Luton with things being firebombed and EDL graffiti appearing nearby. You really do hope we don't have people on either side that are going to start doing things like destroying Islamic venues or War Memorials to try and stoke up tensions. This is the problem. Burning an Islamic community centre and scrawling 'EDL' beside it is as convincing as defacing a war memorial and sticking 'Islam' on it. Both are ridiculously tenuous 'evidence', but there are those on both sides who wouldn't give a shit about that - it would be justification for them. And whoever it is that is doing these things knows this. Someone wants a 'race' war. Whether it's just the extremists on both sides or whatever, they're pushing all the correct buttons.
Guest MattP Posted 5 June 2013 Posted 5 June 2013 That's certainy a huge concern. I just hope it all settles down soon. I'm sure it will. But at some point be it a year, 5 or 10 something will happen that will kick it off again and with our record of managing to remove any sort of extremism from society you can bet it will only worse and worse. Don't believe for one minute any government has the ability to solve the tension and actually integrate people together, they won't be able to do it and too many people don't seem to want to do it anyway. The politicians who allowed all these ghettos to be created be it white, black, muslim, whatever all need hanging for what they will have created.
Rincewind Posted 5 June 2013 Posted 5 June 2013 According to their website they want to help the Muslim communities rid themselves of the extremists. I also looked on the events and it shows what type of people they attract. Under Leicester for the June 1st there were some comments were along the lines of 'cumon lets she de fecking cnts wat we r about.' even though the first post from EDL said no alcohol no chants ano being intimidated. They said they were working with the police to make it peaceful/ I'm not defending them. If they had any power and attracted the wrong type there would be more friction.
leicsmac Posted 5 June 2013 Posted 5 June 2013 I'm sure it will. But at some point be it a year, 5 or 10 something will happen that will kick it off again and with our record of managing to remove any sort of extremism from society you can bet it will only worse and worse. Don't believe for one minute any government has the ability to solve the tension and actually integrate people together, they won't be able to do it and too many people don't seem to want to do it anyway. The politicians who allowed all these ghettos to be created be it white, black, muslim, whatever all need hanging for what they will have created. Hundreds of years of ancient emnity, born out of intolerance for skin colour, culture or arbitrary borders. You're right, it takes a lot to get over that. To be honest, I reckon the only thing that would get humanity to act as one agenda would actually be a global external threat that affected everyone on the planet. Either that or we'd still fight amongst ourselves for a greater share of the Earth's resources in the aftermath and civilisation would be fvcked anyway. One day I guess we might find out. There's actually quite a good novel by a local author (Chris Wooding) called Endgame, which covers that pretty well.
Rincewind Posted 5 June 2013 Posted 5 June 2013 I know some will agree but for that to happen religion has to go. There is so much difference between them yet they are all claimed to be religion of peace. They should decide which god they are going to worship and find a spot on Earth where they can get on with it without disturbing others. Others can then get on with a Secular life, advance the sciences and find ways to improve and prolong Man's existance on Planet Earth. Maybe even explore the solar system and universe ready for when our sun dies. They will have to be quick though. They only have 50 million years.
leicsmac Posted 5 June 2013 Posted 5 June 2013 I know some will agree but for that to happen religion has to go. There is so much difference between them yet they are all claimed to be religion of peace. They should decide which god they are going to worship and find a spot on Earth where they can get on with it without disturbing others. Others can then get on with a Secular life, advance the sciences and find ways to improve and prolong Man's existance on Planet Earth. Maybe even explore the solar system and universe ready for when our sun dies. They will have to be quick though. They only have 50 million years. Not quite. It will be about 700-900 million years before the Sun becomes hot enough for complex life to become impossible on Earth, and 5 billion before it actually undergoes red giant expansion. However it is likely that at some point in the next 25-30000 years humanity will face a natural threat that will endanger civilisation as we know it (supervolcanic eruption, big asteroid strike, end of current interglacial period). With the way we are developing, we may face an entirely artificial threat of our own making with the same consequences much sooner.
Rincewind Posted 5 June 2013 Posted 5 June 2013 A few years out but I was just making a point. But you are right a natual disaster of our own making is likely. Surely there must be a way for everyone to work together for the same goal. The only way I see it happening is one leader/government ruling all even if it's Totalarism. How it would be enforced would not be easy.
MooseBreath Posted 5 June 2013 Posted 5 June 2013 The only way I see it happening is one leader/government ruling all even if it's Totalarism. Appalling idea.
Guest MattP Posted 5 June 2013 Posted 5 June 2013 A few years out but I was just making a point. But you are right a natual disaster of our own making is likely. Surely there must be a way for everyone to work together for the same goal. The only way I see it happening is one leader/government ruling all even if it's Totalarism. How it would be enforced would not be easy. Ken the Fascist, who would have thought it?
Rincewind Posted 5 June 2013 Posted 5 June 2013 I'm not saying that it's a good idea but how else are you going to get people to agree other by force? The future is A Brave New World.
MooseBreath Posted 5 June 2013 Posted 5 June 2013 I'm not saying that it's a good idea but how else are you going to get people to agree other by force? The future is A Brave New World. People don't need to agree, certainly not by force. Extremists are not a major threat. Peanuts are a greater threat. You're not a very good liberal if you're suggesting that the actions of the minority should lead to global totalitarianism.
leicsmac Posted 5 June 2013 Posted 5 June 2013 People don't need to agree, certainly not by force. Extremists are not a major threat. Peanuts are a greater threat. You're not a very good liberal if you're suggesting that the actions of the minority should lead to global totalitarianism. Quite right, and long may it stay that way. As long as they can keep being marginalised. And keep educating people. Encourage them to integrate, but don't force them. Keep informing them of other cultures and explaining that we're not all that different, but don't force them to listen. Knowledge is the best weapon in this particular area: it's no surprise that the extremists on both sides are the ones with the least understanding and most ignorance of the other side. Using force in a situation like this is counterproductive, and people should be free to choose how they interact with other people, so long as that doesn't directly or indirectly affect those other people in a negative fashion. However I am quite sure that one day in the not-too-distant future humanity will face such an external threat as I have talked about above. I wonder how humanity will act to preserve itself then?
MooseBreath Posted 5 June 2013 Posted 5 June 2013 Would be great to see the whole of humanity pull together in the event of an aggressive alien invasion. Of course you'd still have people like Captain Pancake Shrapnel saying it's our fault and encouraging people to let the aliens take control.
leicsmac Posted 5 June 2013 Posted 5 June 2013 Would be great to see the whole of humanity pull together in the event of an aggressive alien invasion. Of course you'd still have people like Captain Pancake Shrapnel saying it's our fault and encouraging people to let the aliens take control. To be honest,, if the aliens did come down most likely their tech would be so advanced that we wouldn't have a prayer anyway. If they can master FTL travel (which is practically a necessity for any spacefaring civilisation) then it's likely their weaponry is going to be equally as advanced. Perhaps the best we could do is pull a nuclear holocaust and at least hope to take them with us. Personally I like the Zoo Hypothesis - I've mentioned that one before. There's civilisations out there, and they can see us, but they're not allowed to interact with us until we find them.
anotherharboroughfox Posted 5 June 2013 Posted 5 June 2013 To be honest,, if the aliens did come down most likely their tech would be so advanced that we wouldn't have a prayer anyway. If they can master FTL travel (which is practically a necessity for any spacefaring civilisation) then it's likely their weaponry is going to be equally as advanced. Perhaps the best we could do is pull a nuclear holocaust and at least hope to take them with us. Personally I like the Zoo Hypothesis - I've mentioned that one before. There's civilisations out there, and they can see us, but they're not allowed to interact with us until we find them. If they have mastered FTL, they've probably realised that war and weaponry is a massive drain on resources... (completely separate topic though )
Rincewind Posted 5 June 2013 Posted 5 June 2013 Well if the aliens had space travel and travelled many light years without killing each other then maybe they could teach us something and I'd let my daughter marry the leader. (If I hads a daughter)
I am Rod Hull Posted 5 June 2013 Posted 5 June 2013 To be honest,, if the aliens did come down most likely their tech would be so advanced that we wouldn't have a prayer anyway. If they can master FTL travel (which is practically a necessity for any spacefaring civilisation) then it's likely their weaponry is going to be equally as advanced. Perhaps the best we could do is pull a nuclear holocaust and at least hope to take them with us. Personally I like the Zoo Hypothesis - I've mentioned that one before. There's civilisations out there, and they can see us, but they're not allowed to interact with us until we find them. If they have mastered FTL, they've probably realised that war and weaponry is a massive drain on resources... (completely separate topic though ) After reading your posts in this thread and then reading these doozies it seems that my first impressions of you were correct... you are both living in cloud cuckoo land. Reality just passes you by..... Now we just need CPF to be touched by God and we`ll have a hattrick.
leicsmac Posted 5 June 2013 Posted 5 June 2013 After reading your posts in this thread and then reading these doozies it seems that my first impressions of you were correct... you are both living in cloud cuckoo land. Reality just passes you by..... Now we just need CPF to be touched by God and we`ll have a hattrick. I'd like you to elaborate on that please.
I am Rod Hull Posted 5 June 2013 Posted 5 June 2013 I'd like you to elaborate on that please. "Personally I like the Zoo Hypothesis - I've mentioned that one before. There's civilisations out there, and they can see us, but they're not allowed to interact with us until we find them." I like Star Trek but dude, come on..... ....and "different strokes" is not real either. Crackpot...
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