The Good News thread, local jobs, economy etc

[Webbo]

I honestly think the tories will do better than the polls suggest. A lot of people pretend to like Labour because they want to appear kind and compassionate whereas deep down they don't trust them with their money.It might not be enough to win a majority but don't write them off yet.

[ADK]

I wouldn't write them off having a minority but would be amazed by a Tory majority.

[l444ry]

I honestly think the tories will do better than the polls suggest. A lot of people pretend to like Labour because they want to appear kind and compassionate whereas deep down they don't trust them with their money.It might not be enough to win a majority but don't write them off yet.

 

Can't see any hope of them getting a majority Webbo. Cameron seems to be a despised tosspot in all quarters. The scale of their defeat will probably depend on the level of support he can get back from his friends in the media who are driving the UKIP bandwagon.

[Webbo]

I don't think they'll get a majority but they can be the biggest party.

[Guest MattP]

Media driving the UKIP bandwagon? lol Now I know you're trolling.

I think the Tories will do a bit better than the polls say as the ruling party usually does get a couple more % than predicted.

I don't see any hope of either getting a majority though.

Miliband has now pledged to find 30 billion worth of cuts, can't wait to see what Len McCluskey thinks of that.

[Webbo]

Can't see any hope of them getting a majority Webbo. Cameron seems to be a despised tosspot in all quarters. The scale of their defeat will probably depend on the level of support he can get back from his friends in the media who are driving the UKIP bandwagon.

The Ukip bandwagon is only going to hurt the tories. We could do with the media pushing the greens a bit.

[MooseBreath]

UKIP need to find a way to get some momentum going without everything being about Europe and immigration. They've got that angle, sure, but the nation seems to be going yeah, what else you got? And it don't seem like they've got much else going to be honest.

With the economy booming and people getting richer people will soon start enjoying themselves more and worrying less about Romanians, and with prospects and opportunities increasing people in areas affected by strained services will start to see a way of getting themselves out. It will then become more about business and jobs and UKIP don't seem to have much support from the former and no track record on the latter.

Unless Europe starts to drag us down in a way people can really feel then I can see that falling back as a priority issue in the run up to the election. The Tories should be able to get lots of play out of an impeccable record on jobs and the economy against a backdrop of global uncertainty, and even their much maligned education plans are now starting to achieve superb results. Come election most people put their sensible hats back on and by then I can only see there being one sensible option.

Tories to win a straight majority. I'll have a tenner on it.

[leicsmac]

UKIP need to find a way to get some momentum going without everything being about Europe and immigration. They've got that angle, sure, but the nation seems to be going yeah, what else you got? And it don't seem like they've got much else going to be honest.

With the economy booming and people getting richer people will soon start enjoying themselves more and worrying less about Romanians, and with prospects and opportunities increasing people in areas affected by strained services will start to see a way of getting themselves out. It will then become more about business and jobs and UKIP don't seem to have much support from the former and no track record on the latter.

Unless Europe starts to drag us down in a way people can really feel then I can see that falling back as a priority issue in the run up to the election. The Tories should be able to get lots of play out of an impeccable record on jobs and the economy against a backdrop of global uncertainty, and even their much maligned education plans are now starting to achieve superb results. Come election most people put their sensible hats back on and by then I can only see there being one sensible option.

Tories to win a straight majority. I'll have a tenner on it.

 

9/2 for you then, Personally, I can see them getting the most seats but not enough to haul their sorry arses across the finish line.

 

The odds on any kind of coalition with the Lib Dems makes me laugh - they're going to get hammered this time around. Their core voters will abandon them as they won't forgive them for what they did and it's not like their policies are going to attract swing voters from other places this time.

 

They'll be lucky to retain 25 of the seats they have.

[Webbo]

So many of the votes the lib dems get are tactical,Tories voting to keep Labour out and Labour keeping the Tories out. A lot of that anti Labour vote could go to Ukip whereas the anti Tory votes got nowhere else to go. I don't think it'll be meltdown for the libs.

[leicsmac]

So many of the votes the lib dems get are tactical,Tories voting to keep Labour out and Labour keeping the Tories out. A lot of that anti Labour vote could go to Ukip whereas the anti Tory votes got nowhere else to go. I don't think it'll be meltdown for the libs.

 

That's true. Though I think a lot of those could end up voting Green/independent or spoiling their papers if they're sufficiently hacked off with the Lib Dems to not even choose them as a tactical vote.

 

It's going to be interesting to see how many seats the LD's shed. I still don't think they'll grab enough to play kingmaker again.

[Rincewind]

Chancellor George Osborne is trying to cut crucial funding designed to help people in crisis - people hit by flooding, fire, or domestic violence. [1] Without this vital safety net, stricken families would be left penniless and without food. He could announce the cut later today – let’s try to stop him.

Osborne’s latest plan is a cut too far - even other government ministers are coming out against it. The Guardian’s reporting that other ministers are feeling the pressure over “the unpopularity of welfare cuts and the rising use of food banks”. A huge public outcry, just as MPs are getting ready to go home for Christmas, could split the government further - and force Osborne to back down.

He could announce the cuts today. Please sign the emergency petition now:
https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/osborne-christmas-cuts

Whether it’s a violent partner, flood, or fire, anyone can suddenly find themselves up against it. Until now, the government has given councils funds to offer emergency help. [2] If George Osborne manages to scrap this fund, people could be left with nowhere to turn.

As a proportion of government spending, the sums of money involved are pretty small. But this is about the kind of Britain we want to live in. Can it really be right to scrap emergency support for people hit by crisis? Do we really want to leave people in hardship to suffer? To rely on food banks? Or even worse, loan sharks?

George Osborne could make his announcement as early as this afternoon. Let’s take a stand and tell him this is a cut too far. Please sign emergency petition now:
https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/osborne-christmas-cuts

[Guest MattP]

UKIP need to find a way to get some momentum going without everything being about Europe and immigration. They've got that angle, sure, but the nation seems to be going yeah, what else you got? And it don't seem like they've got much else going to be honest.

With the economy booming and people getting richer people will soon start enjoying themselves more and worrying less about Romanians, and with prospects and opportunities increasing people in areas affected by strained services will start to see a way of getting themselves out. It will then become more about business and jobs and UKIP don't seem to have much support from the former and no track record on the latter.

Unless Europe starts to drag us down in a way people can really feel then I can see that falling back as a priority issue in the run up to the election. The Tories should be able to get lots of play out of an impeccable record on jobs and the economy against a backdrop of global uncertainty, and even their much maligned education plans are now starting to achieve superb results. Come election most people put their sensible hats back on and by then I can only see there being one sensible option.

Tories to win a straight majority. I'll have a tenner on it.

 

I don't think it matters what UKIP have in terms of policy, the anti-Westminster ticket seems to be enough to haul in a hell of a lot of votes these days, Teflon Nigel and his party keep getting in scandal and scandal and it's doing absolutely nothing to their opinion poll ratings at all. You can be sure they'll have more and more gifts as May approaches as well when more things occur that we don't like but can't control unless Mr Cameron has to go and beg to Mrs Merkel and Mr Juncker.

 

I just don't see how The Tories can achieve a majority anymore, if they couldn't do that with Gordon Brown in power I don't see any hope, too many people who were on the Labour payroll who have now completely unreal expectations of entitlement, add that to the fact we have a completely unfair set of boundaries and that leaves the Tories needing at least 40% of the vote to win and I just don't see that happening.

 

I'd love it to happen but a Conservative majority for me needs a complete and total Ed Miliband collapse and the Labour vote to fall to 29-30%.

 

If Edx2 does get in we'll have five years of a Labour government tearing itself to pieces that will have to make severe cuts, I'll join you in 2020 then in putting my house on a Conservative majority winning the election.

 

 

The odds on any kind of coalition with the Lib Dems makes me laugh - they're going to get hammered this time around. Their core voters will abandon them as they won't forgive them for what they did and it's not like their policies are going to attract swing voters from other places this time.

 

They'll be lucky to retain 25 of the seats they have.

 

The Lib Dems will probably still have more seats than any other minority party so if anybody is going to be the kingmaker you would still expect it to be them. Why they don't really try and get out the message the immense positives of the coalition I have no idea.

 

I don't buy this logic they'll lose a load of seats, as Eastleigh showed they have a fantastic ground game and very loyal activists, the people in these areas see them as very good politicians and I don't see them switching their alliegience to the Tories or Labour anytime soon. I think they'll lose a few seats but think they'll comfortable still hold a decent amount come May.

 

They pissed off a load of middle class students who think the state should pay for their education even through adulthood. It's not the end of the World for them.

Edited 19 December 2014 by MattP

[leicsmac]

I don't think it matters what UKIP have in terms of policy, the anti-Westminster ticket seems to be enough to haul in a hell of a lot of votes these days, Teflon Nigel and his party keep getting in scandal and scandal and it's doing absolutely nothing to their opinion poll ratings at all. You can be sure they'll have more and more gifts as May approaches as well when more things occur that we don't like but can't control unless Mr Cameron has to go and beg to Mrs Merkel and Mr Juncker.

 

I just don't see how The Tories can achieve a majority anymore, if they couldn't do that with Gordon Brown in power I don't see any hope, too many people who were on the Labour payroll who have now completely unreal expectations of entitlement, add that to the fact we have a completely unfair set of boundaries and that leaves the Tories needing at least 40% of the vote to win and I just don't see that happening.

 

I'd love it to happen but a Conservative majority for me needs a complete and total Ed Miliband collapse and the Labour vote to fall to 29-30%.

 

If Edx2 does get in we'll have five years of a Labour government tearing itself to pieces that will have to make severe cuts, I'll join you in 2020 then in putting my house on a Conservative majority winning the election.

 

 

 

The Lib Dems will probably still have more seats than any other minority party so if anybody is going to be the kingmaker you would still expect it to be them. Why they don't really try and get out the message the immense positives of the coalition I have no idea.

 

I don't buy this logic they'll lose a load of seats, as Eastleigh showed they have a fantastic ground game and very loyal activists, the people in these areas see them as very good politicians and I don't see them switching their alliegience to the Tories or Labour anytime soon. I think they'll lose a few seats but think they'll comfortable still hold a decent amount come May.

 

They pissed off a load of middle class students who think the state should pay for their education even through adulthood. It's not the end of the World for them.

 

 

Exactly, who outside of their big safe seats are their core voters.

 

Seriously, you think the average Lib Dem voter is happy about them getting into bed with the Tories, even though they've managed to scrape through a couple of pieces of their manifesto (along with nullifying a key campaign promise)?

 

I've no doubt they've got good activists having had to fight so hard for recognition all this time, but they're really going to have to pull out the stops to maintain many of the seats that hold demographics that they've alienated. I do agree that Lib Dem voters won't go to Labour and certainly not the Tories either - instead they'll go Green/independent, spoil their papers, or not vote at all (which would be a shame).

[Guest MattP]

Exactly, who outside of their big safe seats are their core voters.

 

Seriously, you think the average Lib Dem voter is happy about them getting into bed with the Tories, even though they've managed to scrape through a couple of pieces of their manifesto (along with nullifying a key campaign promise)?

 

I've no doubt they've got good activists having had to fight so hard for recognition all this time, but they're really going to have to pull out the stops to maintain many of the seats that hold demographics that they've alienated. I do agree that Lib Dem voters won't go to Labour and certainly not the Tories either - instead they'll go Green/independent, spoil their papers, or not vote at all (which would be a shame).

 

It's not really their core vote though is it? Look at the seats they hold, Countryside Devon and Cornwall mainly, Scottish highlands, Welsh valleys and the odd blob in the North (they'll lose the latter probably yeah).

 

I don't expect anyone being happy about getting into bed with anyone but surely they can't be annoyed and what has happened since then, the country has been stablised and they have played a part now in what has become the fastest growing economy in Western Europe, admittidly none of this is to do with anything they have proposed but they should still try and ride on the coat tails of it. Don't forget people wrote off the coalition, some even said it wouldn't last a year, how wrong they were.

 

Considering how educated most Liberals consider themselves you would think that by now they would realise just how ridiculously unrealistic the free tuition pledge was. Surely they knew they couldn't keep a promise only there because they didn;t think they would be in government.

[leicsmac]

It's not really their core vote though is it? Look at the seats they hold, Countryside Devon and Cornwall mainly, Scottish highlands, Welsh valleys and the odd blob in the North (they'll lose the latter probably yeah).

 

I don't expect anyone being happy about getting into bed with anyone but surely they can't be annoyed and what has happened since then, the country has been stablised and they have played a part now in what has become the fastest growing economy in Western Europe, admittidly none of this is to do with anything they have proposed but they should still try and ride on the coat tails of it. Don't forget people wrote off the coalition, some even said it wouldn't last a year, how wrong they were.

 

Considering how educated most Liberals consider themselves you would think that by now they would realise just how ridiculously unrealistic the free tuition pledge was. Surely they knew they couldn't keep a promise only there because they didn;t think they would be in government.

 

You think that the country has been stabilised...they don't, or think that the cost of doing so was way too high. That's the fundamental difference here, two sets of people viewing the same thing from two completely different angles due to ideology. The Lib Dems can't use the success of the coalition (if you believe that it has been successful) as a point for their campaign, as many of the people who voted for them last time simply don't believe that it's true, right or wrong. The fact that it has lasted so long is actually a point of contention for them too: it merely says that Clegg has sold out and been a good dog for his master in no.10 rather than actually taking the fight to an issue that would result in fractures in the coalition. Of course, I don't view it that way as I'm big on compromise, but you see the divergence of views here?

 

Good point though about the spread of their seats...perhaps they will hold on to more than I suspect, but I guess we'll have to wait and see. 

 

As for the whole issue of higher education funding...I think neither you nor I are going to convince each other regarding our views on the matter, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, in the same way we view other matters the same. 

[Guest MattP]

I can understand looking at things through different viewpoints but is people genuinely don't think the country has some sort of stability now compared to 2010 then I probably wouldn't even waste my breath arguing the point with tem. We've gone from being in a complete mess to having such a thriving economy the EU sees fit to bill us £1.4billion as a penalty for our success to bail out the French.

 

Anyoen resorting to the politics of Clegg being a lapdog etc probably doesn't understand the situation he was in, you can't go in screaming to hold 50% of the cards when you are in government on the basis of picking up a few seats.

 

We'll agree to disagree but one last question if you support free tuition fees - Where would you pull the 7-8billion from to pay for it?

[leicsmac]

I can understand looking at things through different viewpoints but is people genuinely don't think the country has some sort of stability now compared to 2010 then I probably wouldn't even waste my breath arguing the point with tem. We've gone from being in a complete mess to having such a thriving economy the EU sees fit to bill us £1.4billion as a penalty for our success to bail out the French.

 

Anyoen resorting to the politics of Clegg being a lapdog etc probably doesn't understand the situation he was in, you can't go in screaming to hold 50% of the cards when you are in government on the basis of picking up a few seats.

 

We'll agree to disagree but one last question if you support free tuition fees - Where would you pull the 7-8billion from to pay for it?

 

Modify or abandon entirely the replacement for Trident. I think I made a pretty convincing argument as to why it's not needed now a fair while ago. But to summarise, if the time ever comes (all of the powers in the Universe forbid) that we need to use those weapons, we won't be standing alone to do it - we WILL be allied to another nuclear power who will also likely be targetted or respond on our behalf. And in any case, if it comes to that we're fvcked anyway - nukes or no nukes.

 

Alternatively, modify or scrap HS2. It's bloated, overexpensive and if you're not going to go the whole hog and modify the entire rail network to make it like it is here in Korea it isn't worth it.

[Webbo]

Modify or abandon entirely the replacement for Trident. I think I made a pretty convincing argument as to why it's not needed now a fair while ago. But to summarise, if the time ever comes (all of the powers in the Universe forbid) that we need to use those weapons, we won't be standing alone to do it - we WILL be allied to another nuclear power who will also likely be targetted or respond on our behalf. And in any case, if it comes to that we're fvcked anyway - nukes or no nukes.

 

Alternatively, modify or scrap HS2. It's bloated, overexpensive and if you're not going to go the whole hog and modify the entire rail network to make it like it is here in Korea it isn't worth it.

Trident won't cost £7 billion a year and HS2 is an investment in the infrastructure of the country that will pay dividends for the next 100 years.

[Guest MattP]

Modify or abandon entirely the replacement for Trident. I think I made a pretty convincing argument as to why it's not needed now a fair while ago. But to summarise, if the time ever comes (all of the powers in the Universe forbid) that we need to use those weapons, we won't be standing alone to do it - we WILL be allied to another nuclear power who will also likely be targetted or respond on our behalf. And in any case, if it comes to that we're fvcked anyway - nukes or no nukes.

 

Alternatively, modify or scrap HS2. It's bloated, overexpensive and if you're not going to go the whole hog and modify the entire rail network to make it like it is here in Korea it isn't worth it.

 

It was a good argument and long term I'd also like to see everyone move towards removing their nuclear capabilities, it's certainly not something I would consider doing though in such an unstable World at the moment. I don't like the idea of relying on others to protect us either, we've never had to do that in the past and I don't intend for Britain to be reliant on anyone for defence in the future, allegiences and relationships can change drastically over time.

 

Agree with you on HS2 completely though, seems a total waste of money which I'm sure will be scrapped eventually anyway.

[leicsmac]

Trident won't cost £7 billion a year and HS2 is an investment in the infrastructure of the country that will pay dividends for the next 100 years.

 

You're right about Trident not costing that much. Fair enough. 

 

However HS2 is a half-arsed white elephant that will cost us massively and still leave us way behind the public rail infrastructure of many of the leading industrialised nations. When it's complete, nations like Korea and Japan will still be 60/70 years ahead of us. 

 

Either tear up the whole thing and do the restructuring properly and intensively over a short time period and accept the cost and disruption in transportation, or don't do it at all.

 

It was a good argument and long term I'd also like to see everyone move towards removing their nuclear capabilities, it's certainly not something I would consider doing though in such an unstable World at the moment. I don't like the idea of relying on others to protect us either, we've never had to do that in the past and I don't intend for Britain to be reliant on anyone for defence in the future, allegiences and relationships can change drastically over time.

 

Agree with you on HS2 completely though, seems a total waste of money which I'm sure will be scrapped eventually anyway.

 

I agree with you that the world is unstable, but I think the idea of retaliating with nukes after being fired upon with nukes by a nation state is a flight of fancy now anyway. Terrorism is the threat, and you can't fight that with nuclear weapons. Also, I think my point about us being all screwed if any nation launches just one nuke still stands.

[MooseBreath]

2014, best year ever?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/11310456/Goodbye-to-one-of-the-best-years-in-history.html

Some excellent points. I think the world is probably enjoying its best ever era. So many positives in the world right now.

The UK is now re-establishing itself as a world leader too so I'd argue it has been among the greatest ever years for the UK too.

[Rincewind]

I'm happy for you that your year has been a good one. I hope you have many more to come.

[Kopfkino]

2014, best year ever?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/11310456/Goodbye-to-one-of-the-best-years-in-history.html

Some excellent points. I think the world is probably enjoying its best ever era. So many positives in the world right now.

The UK is now re-establishing itself as a world leader too so I'd argue it has been among the greatest ever years for the UK too.

I'm failing to see where 2014 can be seen as the best year ever there? More just its been the best 24 year period ever since 1990. Now I would expect that with all the advancements we have made especially in terms of human thinking

[MooseBreath]

I'm failing to see where 2014 can be seen as the best year ever there? More just its been the best 24 year period ever since 1990. Now I would expect that with all the advancements we have made especially in terms of human thinking

Because unprecedented improvements in things like life expectancy, global poverty and the emergence of the middle class and individual wealth in places like China have been broadly linear throughout that period, so 2014 has been the best yet. I don't think the article is intended as a particularly in depth measurement of what has been the best year, more so just highlighting the vast improvements made across the globe in recent times.

[MooseBreath]

I'm happy for you that your year has been a good one. I hope you have many more to come.

Thanks ken. It's great when hard work and perseverance starts to pay off. I'm happy to live in a country where everyone has the opportunity to work themselves to a better life.