fleckneymike Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 Whilst I am in the 'dubious about our ability to play 352' camp I think one area which potentially hasn't been considered is the impact on our creativity. In 352 I cannot reasonably see how one or more of Dyer (who I acknowledge I am not fan of), Marshall and Knockaert can be accommodated. The problem with this is that they contributed 8,6 and 5 assists respectively. Those 19 assists excedes the amount contributed by RDL (1), Konchesky (5), King (3) Drinkwater (4) James (4) who have been the starting 'five'. Admittedly only two of Dyer, Marshall and Knockaert can 'start' but that is a lot of assists to find elsewhere. When you add to that the goals 3, 4 and 8 respectively versus 1,1,7,1,3 that's quite a deficit.
GingerrrFox Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 Marshall has been playing a lot in a free role in the midfield of 352 and I actually think the change in formation aides both him and RDL the most out of anyone in the squad. It will take time for all players to become accustomed to it but it's clear that Nigel has the right intentions with the change, for me we have looked much better going forward than when we have played 442 or a variation of 4 at the back.
davieG Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 Depends on whether he's prepared to be a bit more adventurous especially at home when they've become more accustomed to the system by playing say knocky and marshall in midfield with someone like James. He'd still have 5/6 defensive players on the pitch.
fleckneymike Posted 31 July 2013 Author Posted 31 July 2013 Depends on whether he's prepared to be a bit more adventurous especially at home when they've become more accustomed to the system by playing say knocky and marshall in midfield with someone like James. He'd still have 5/6 defensive players on the pitch. I'm not overly confident that he would. I imagine the only 'vacancy' in that 352 will be in the middle 3 and that means just one from Dyer, Knockaert or Marshall at best.
Lambert09 Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 My issue is that players try to hard to force it wide in this formation. Obviously the aim of this formation is to get greater width and bring the fullbacks into play, but every game ive watched with Marshall in particular, rather than giving it short to someone he tries the glamorous knock out wide. When it comes off it does look great, but the majority of the time the ball was just given away. My concern is we will play a team with good, quick full backs and our whole game plan will be down the shitter.
Babylon Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 O'Neill played two wingers out wide rather than defenders, so there is potential that you could have one attacking version and one defensive version. That was what I was hoping he'd do against Monaco, first half defenders as wing backs and three CM's. Second half two wingers as wing backs with an ACM ahead of two normal CM's in the middle. He didn't though... which now makes me think he's just going to play two defenders out there.
Monk Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 Interesting point you make. Of course there is also Schupp, who may end up playing LWB more frequently than Dyer or Marshall. For 3-5-2 to work, you really need the wingers to be able to track back. To me, that narrows down the possibilities to only a few players - and unless we are going all out attack I wouldn't stick Dyer because of his lack of defending, or Konchesky because of his lack of pace. I would expect the middle 3 to be Knocky, James and King most weeks.
Monk Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 O'Neill played two wingers out wide rather than defenders, so there is potential that you could have one attacking version and one defensive version. That was what I was hoping he'd do against Monaco, first half defenders as wing backs and three CM's. Second half two wingers as wing backs with an ACM ahead of two normal CM's in the middle. He didn't though... which now makes me think he's just going to play two defenders out there. Football has changed since then though. As good as Morgan is, I don't think our back 3 could cope with only having midfielders on the wing. Where's Pontus when you need him?
ManorFox Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 Dyer couldn't play in a 3-5-2 (ignoring the fact he shouldn't be playing at this level or a club like Leicester) as he has zero defensive qualities, nor does Knockaert, so they are both rendered useless from the get go. I'm not sure I've seen a player regress as badly as Ben Marshall, but out of the 3 he seems to be more defensively minded. It's a valid point to a degree FM, but with the removal of players in front of them it is, in all likelihood, going to increase to opportunities for RDL, Konchesky/Schlupp to increase their assist numbers. I can't decide if this is a 'sh*t or bust' attempt at 3-5-2 from Pearson only trying it because Watford and a few others played it, or he has genuinely sat down over the summer and worked out that this is what's best for LCFC.
Ian W LCFC Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 IMO this is what the 5-2 part should be. ------------------- James ---------------- -- RDL ---------- King ------ Schlupp -- ----------------Knockaert --------------- -------Wood ----------------Nugent ----
ManorFox Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 IMO this is what the 5-2 part should be. ------------------- James ---------------- -- RDL ---------- King ------ Schlupp -- ----------------Knockaert --------------- -------Wood ----------------Nugent ---- I'd love to play against that, the gaps either side of James, King and Knockaert would be huge, we'd be bypassed with easy and regularity. In all seriousness that is the issue with a central 3 in midfield unless they are either flat or in a triangle (inverted or standard) then they get overrun. I am guessing from your diagram you are expecting James to protect the back 3 and Knockaert to link with the front 2? That leaves Andy King doing doggies, not influencing the game and being overrun.
Albert Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 Dyer couldn't play in a 3-5-2 (ignoring the fact he shouldn't be playing at this level or a club like Leicester) as he has zero defensive qualities, nor does Knockaert, so they are both rendered useless from the get go. I'm not sure I've seen a player regress as badly as Ben Marshall, but out of the 3 he seems to be more defensively minded. It's a valid point to a degree FM, but with the removal of players in front of them it is, in all likelihood, going to increase to opportunities for RDL, Konchesky/Schlupp to increase their assist numbers. I can't decide if this is a 'sh*t or bust' attempt at 3-5-2 from Pearson only trying it because Watford and a few others played it, or he has genuinely sat down over the summer and worked out that this is what's best for LCFC. Knockhaert wouldn't be played as a wing back he would sit behind the front two as would Marshall. I think this would suit them both better than being put out wide
ManorFox Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 Knockhaert wouldn't be played as a wing back he would sit behind the front two as would Marshall. I think this would suit them both better than being put out wide Think that is a liability in this league unless you are Robert Proseniki, Paul Merson or Adel Taarabt all of whom were/are infinitely better than anyone we have.
Guest foxestalkisfullofidiots Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 I was always a fan of 3-5-2 under O'Neil but I remember they recorded how far Guppy ran in a game once and it was a stupid distance but not only was he a great crosser of the ball but also a good defender that knew how to cover, I can see why NP wants to do it, we lost too many battles in midfield last year and with this formation he could flood the midfield and we do have pace down the flanks but the main reason 3-5-2 work under O'Neil was the work rate of the team and I'm not too sure if the work rate of this team comes anywhere near.
Wherethefoxhat? Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 I'd love to play against that, the gaps either side of James, King and Knockaert would be huge, we'd be bypassed with easy and regularity. In all seriousness that is the issue with a central 3 in midfield unless they are either flat or in a triangle (inverted or standard) then they get overrun. I am guessing from your diagram you are expecting James to protect the back 3 and Knockaert to link with the front 2? That leaves Andy King doing doggies, not influencing the game and being overrun. Nothing new there then !!!
Fox92 Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 Knockaert and Marshall are probably our most technically gifted players, but as I've said before, I cannot see how they will fit into a 3. Marshall maybe because I would like to see him more central, but Knockaert seems to give the ball away too much, as does Danns. However, I think Danns need to play if it's a 3, simply for his energy, pace and ability to basically chase the ball. James is a starter, he's obviously the midfielder with that bit more quality. I don't fancy seeing Drinkwater, King and James as a 3.
GingerrrFox Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 Knockaert and Marshall are probably our most technically gifted players, but as I've said before, I cannot see how they will fit into a 3. Marshall maybe because I would like to see him more central, but Knockaert seems to give the ball away too much, as does Danns. However, I think Danns need to play if it's a 3, simply for his energy, pace and ability to basically chase the ball. James is a starter, he's obviously the midfielder with that bit more quality. I don't fancy seeing Drinkwater, King and James as a 3. Knockaert has a lot of maturing to do as a player. He has looked way off the pace all pre-season and he needs to develop a lot to fulfil his potential.
Monk Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 How do the midfielders line up like for like with the O'Niell years? Impey / Guppy - The wingers Savage - The runner Izzet - Playmaker Lennon - Lynchpin Do any of our central midfielders really make up any of those 'roles'? I don't think any single member of our current midfield is as good as any of those from the MON days. With perhaps the exception of RDL being roughly as good as Impey?
GingerrrFox Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 How do the midfielders line up like for like with the O'Niell years? Impey / Guppy - The wingers Savage - The runner Izzet - Playmaker Lennon - Lynchpin Do any of our central midfielders really make up any of those 'roles'? I don't think any single member of our current midfield is as good as any of those from the MON days. With perhaps the exception of RDL being roughly as good as Impey? RDL/Schlupp - wingers Danns - Runner Marshall - Playmaker James - Lynchpin
Monk Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 RDL/Schlupp - wingers Danns - Runner Marshall - Playmaker James - Lynchpin Yes, but I would say the difference in quality between then and now is fairly large.
GingerrrFox Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 Yes, but I would say the difference in quality between then and now is fairly large. Yeah you're right. The only midfielder we have currently that would get near that team is Matty James.
FoxLAD Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 as much as i would like us to play the 3-5-2 formation, i'm just not convinced we have the players for it. how about a 4-5-1? Kaspar RDL Wes Whitbread Konch James King Masrhall Knocky Dyer Wood/Nugent
fleckneymike Posted 31 July 2013 Author Posted 31 July 2013 How do the midfielders line up like for like with the O'Niell years? Impey / Guppy - The wingers Savage - The runner Izzet - Playmaker Lennon - Lynchpin Do any of our central midfielders really make up any of those 'roles'? I don't think any single member of our current midfield is as good as any of those from the MON days. With perhaps the exception of RDL being roughly as good as Impey? From what I can recall didn't Sav play RWB most of the time under MON?
Guest Col city fan Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 I'd be really surprised if we don't start 4-4-2 on Saturday or revert to it if we concede early on.
LCFC FOX Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 the formation is 5-3-2 anyway... Kasper RDL Morgan Whitbread Koncheskey James Drinkwater Marshall King Knockaert Nugent
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