"Stability" and Peter Hodge

[Fox Ulike]

Stability means more than just having the same manager in charge. In means building a well-run club, from director level down to the apprentices. Stability means following a strategic business plan over a number of years.

 

David Moyes is likely to achieve his first trophy at Man United quicker than Fergie achieved his. But that’s because he’s taken over at a club which has been well-run and well managed for a number of years.

 

Cardiff were well run and well-managed by Dave Jones for a number of years. Malkie MacKay’s task was just to continue and improve upon the work that had already been done. Same at Hull, where Pearson had done all the groundwork, allowing Bruce to come in and take them to the next level.

 

The situation at LCFC when Pearson took over was totally different. The Thais totally messed up when they took over the club, and ripped it apart believing that they could just instantly re-build it as a Premiership club by throwing money at it.

 

Since Pearson’s appointment, we have completely changed our strategy, and so Pearson’s task has been to start from scratch, and off-load a whole team of high-earning under-performing players, and build a squad almost from the ground up.

 

For MacKay, Cardiff were already around 70% promotion material, for Bruce, around 50%. For Pearson, it was ground zero.

 

In terms of stability and development, we are around 3 years behind Cardiff and 18 months behind Hull.

[Zingari]

i think that's a very good summary of the situation Fox ulike 

[Babylon]

Stability means more than just having the same manager in charge. In means building a well-run club, from director level down to the apprentices. Stability means following a strategic business plan over a number of years.

 

David Moyes is likely to achieve his first trophy at Man United quicker than Fergie achieved his. But that’s because he’s taken over at a club which has been well-run and well managed for a number of years.

 

Cardiff were well run and well-managed by Dave Jones for a number of years. Malkie MacKay’s task was just to continue and improve upon the work that had already been done. Same at Hull, where Pearson had done all the groundwork, allowing Bruce to come in and take them to the next level.

 

The situation at LCFC when Pearson took over was totally different. The Thais totally messed up when they took over the club, and ripped it apart believing that they could just instantly re-build it as a Premiership club by throwing money at it.

 

Since Pearson’s appointment, we have completely changed our strategy, and so Pearson’s task has been to start from scratch, and off-load a whole team of high-earning under-performing players, and build a squad almost from the ground up.

 

For MacKay, Cardiff were already around 70% promotion material, for Bruce, around 50%. For Pearson, it was ground zero.

 

In terms of stability and development, we are around 3 years behind Cardiff and 18 months behind Hull.

Very well put.

[teblin]

Stability means more than just having the same manager in charge. In means building a well-run club, from director level down to the apprentices. Stability means following a strategic business plan over a number of years.

David Moyes is likely to achieve his first trophy at Man United quicker than Fergie achieved his. But that’s because he’s taken over at a club which has been well-run and well managed for a number of years.

Cardiff were well run and well-managed by Dave Jones for a number of years. Malkie MacKay’s task was just to continue and improve upon the work that had already been done. Same at Hull, where Pearson had done all the groundwork, allowing Bruce to come in and take them to the next level.

The situation at LCFC when Pearson took over was totally different. The Thais totally messed up when they took over the club, and ripped it apart believing that they could just instantly re-build it as a Premiership club by throwing money at it.

Since Pearson’s appointment, we have completely changed our strategy, and so Pearson’s task has been to start from scratch, and off-load a whole team of high-earning under-performing players, and build a squad almost from the ground up.

For MacKay, Cardiff were already around 70% promotion material, for Bruce, around 50%. For Pearson, it was ground zero.

In terms of stability and development, we are around 3 years behind Cardiff and 18 months behind Hull.

Well put.

It still believe if we had not lost Pearson to hull we'd have been promoted by now.

[fleckneymike]

Stability means more than just having the same manager in charge. In means building a well-run club, from director level down to the apprentices. Stability means following a strategic business plan over a number of years.

 

David Moyes is likely to achieve his first trophy at Man United quicker than Fergie achieved his. But that’s because he’s taken over at a club which has been well-run and well managed for a number of years.

 

Cardiff were well run and well-managed by Dave Jones for a number of years. Malkie MacKay’s task was just to continue and improve upon the work that had already been done. Same at Hull, where Pearson had done all the groundwork, allowing Bruce to come in and take them to the next level.

 

The situation at LCFC when Pearson took over was totally different. The Thais totally messed up when they took over the club, and ripped it apart believing that they could just instantly re-build it as a Premiership club by throwing money at it.

 

Since Pearson’s appointment, we have completely changed our strategy, and so Pearson’s task has been to start from scratch, and off-load a whole team of high-earning under-performing players, and build a squad almost from the ground up.

 

For MacKay, Cardiff were already around 70% promotion material, for Bruce, around 50%. For Pearson, it was ground zero.

 

In terms of stability and development, we are around 3 years behind Cardiff and 18 months behind Hull.

 

Cardiff well run? They had to be rescued in 2010 http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/cardiff_city/8706910.stm

 

 

Nick Barmby anyone? He helped Hull rise up the table after we took Pearson back.

 

I don't doubt Pearson's credentials for creating a side which won't get relegated but to give him credit for what follows is stretching it a bit. What Cardiff shows is one man wasn't good enough to get the side promoted and another man was.

[MC Prussian]

Stability means more than just having the same manager in charge. In means building a well-run club, from director level down to the apprentices. Stability means following a strategic business plan over a number of years.

 

David Moyes is likely to achieve his first trophy at Man United quicker than Fergie achieved his. But that’s because he’s taken over at a club which has been well-run and well managed for a number of years.

 

Cardiff were well run and well-managed by Dave Jones for a number of years. Malkie MacKay’s task was just to continue and improve upon the work that had already been done. Same at Hull, where Pearson had done all the groundwork, allowing Bruce to come in and take them to the next level.

 

The situation at LCFC when Pearson took over was totally different. The Thais totally messed up when they took over the club, and ripped it apart believing that they could just instantly re-build it as a Premiership club by throwing money at it.

 

Since Pearson’s appointment, we have completely changed our strategy, and so Pearson’s task has been to start from scratch, and off-load a whole team of high-earning under-performing players, and build a squad almost from the ground up.

 

For MacKay, Cardiff were already around 70% promotion material, for Bruce, around 50%. For Pearson, it was ground zero.

 

In terms of stability and development, we are around 3 years behind Cardiff and 18 months behind Hull.

Everything that I would've said, you put it better.

[Babylon]

Nick Barmby anyone? He helped Hull rise up the table after we took Pearson back.

On the 7th November he requested permission to talk to us when they were 6th, they finished 8th.

[Guest MattP]

Stability means more than just having the same manager in charge. In means building a well-run club, from director level down to the apprentices. Stability means following a strategic business plan over a number of years.

 

David Moyes is likely to achieve his first trophy at Man United quicker than Fergie achieved his. But that’s because he’s taken over at a club which has been well-run and well managed for a number of years.

 

Cardiff were well run and well-managed by Dave Jones for a number of years. Malkie MacKay’s task was just to continue and improve upon the work that had already been done. Same at Hull, where Pearson had done all the groundwork, allowing Bruce to come in and take them to the next level.

 

The situation at LCFC when Pearson took over was totally different. The Thais totally messed up when they took over the club, and ripped it apart believing that they could just instantly re-build it as a Premiership club by throwing money at it.

 

Since Pearson’s appointment, we have completely changed our strategy, and so Pearson’s task has been to start from scratch, and off-load a whole team of high-earning under-performing players, and build a squad almost from the ground up.

 

For MacKay, Cardiff were already around 70% promotion material, for Bruce, around 50%. For Pearson, it was ground zero.

 

In terms of stability and development, we are around 3 years behind Cardiff and 18 months behind Hull.

 

Niceeee.

 

[fleckneymike]

On the 7th November he requested permission to talk to us when they were 6th, they finished 8th.

 

They were 9th having just lost at home to West Ham

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/15510756

[MC Prussian]

They were 9th having just lost at home to West Ham

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/15510756

Yeah, but they still finished 8th.

[fleckneymike]

Yeah, but they still finished 8th.

 

Indeed they did. I am loathed to give Pearson credit for where they finished and where they are now because if we follow that logic then surely Pearson is responsible for our abysmal start to the season under Sousa?

 

I'd say crediting Pearson with our abysmal start would be incredibly harsh and unfair so crediting him with success must also be greeted with equal scepticism. 

 

Last three seasons we've been incredibly stable, we finished with 67,66 and 68 points. Hull have finished with 65, 68 and 79. We've had two managers they've had 3.

[Zingari]

Indeed they did. I am loathed to give Pearson credit for where they finished and where they are now because if we follow that logic then surely Pearson is responsible for our abysmal start to the season under Sousa?

 

I'd say crediting Pearson with our abysmal start would be incredibly harsh and unfair so crediting him with success must also be greeted with equal scepticism. 

 

Last three seasons we've been incredibly stable, we finished with 67,66 and 68 points. Hull have finished with 65, 68 and 79. We've had two managers they've had 3.

i think you can only make comparisons like that if the incoming manager doesn't make many changes to the structure he inherited from the previous incumbent.

[fleckneymike]

i think you can only make comparisons like that if the incoming manager doesn't make many changes to the structure he inherited from the previous incumbent.

 

Well the comparison is that we've made a 2pt improvement and Hull 11pts

[Zingari]

Well the comparison is that we've made a 2pt improvement and Hull 11pts

Getting too involved in how many points better / worse off off compared to other teams is a bit futile IMO , there are too many variables and differences in the relative situations for it to mean anything in reality. 

 

I think the point most people are making about Pearson is that he's been forced into taking a few steps back before any real long term improvement can be made .  The team was in reality in somewhat of a disarray . Hull were more stable and required tweaking to improve ( maybe Pearson could have done this , maybe not , 

who knows ) 

But changes needed by Hull were nothing on the scale  that we had somehow manufactured for ourselves .

Pearson will , given time , create a good base for a strong team without breaking the bank ( if it's not already broke) 

 

Whether he's capable of moving us on another notch is another matter. But I'd give him the opportunity. I think we should give him the relative security of at least 2 more seasons to see how effective his policy  is.

 

I doubt if we'll all agree on this though   

[Fox Ulike]

Cardiff well run? They had to be rescued in 2010 http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/cardiff_city/8706910.stm

 

. What Cardiff shows is one man wasn't good enough to get the side promoted and another man was.

 

The comparison with Cardiff is an interesting one, since LCFC and Cardiff both got their big foreign investment in the Summer of 2010, after both lost in the play-offs of that year.

 

Cardiff continued with their manager for one more season, then changed in the Summer of 2011, and two years later were promoted.

 

Leicester immediately changed manager for Souza, (and changed the style of football we played). We then sacked him after 9 games and got Sven in. Then we spent millions on new players, then sacked Sven after 13 games. They then re-appointed Pearson, and tried to sell most of the expensive players that they had bought less than a year earlier.

 

Hmmm. If you had to say which one of these two clubs was “well-run and stableâ€, which would it be?

[Babylon]

Hmmm. If you had to say which one of these two clubs was “well-run and stableâ€, which would it be?

Is it us?

[Dan LCFC]

Best modern day example for me is Swansea. Honestly, these lot are not a big club, yet they've now won a trophy, play in Europe and there's more talk of them getting into Europe again rather than them fighting relegation. Slowly built up over the years with a chairman who's been willing to invest money in an academy, has always opted for managers who play passing football, and they're reaping the rewards. They're the club we ought to try and emulate, and they didn't do it all quickly.

[Zingari]

Well the comparison is that we've made a 2pt improvement and Hull 11pts

Further to this, It's easy to forget that Hull replaced their manager (Pearson) because they were losing him because he was seen as being a success . Any new man coming in takes a team that is already looking and playing like its on the up . 

 

Leicester replaced a manager who was becoming to be seen as an abject failure , therefore he (Pearson) took a over team on the slide.

 

Can everyone not see the difference in situations ? 

 

It's much easier continuing with success with a team on the up , than turning a team around on the slide. 

Because in the first case very little change ( if any) is needed to keep up or improve the momentum , in the second case much change is needed before halting the slide before improvements can be seen .

[Swiss_tony]

 

Further to this, It's easy to forget that Hull replaced their manager (Pearson) because they were losing him because he was seen as being a success . Any new man coming in takes a team that is already looking and playing like its on the up . 

 

Leicester replaced a manager who was becoming to be seen as an abject failure , therefore he (Pearson) took a over team on the slide.

 

Can everyone not see the difference in situations ? 

 

It's much easier continuing with success with a team on the up , than turning a team around on the slide. 

Because in the first case very little change ( if any) is needed to keep up or improve the momentum , in the second case much change is needed before halting the slide before improvements can be seen .

 

good sound logic except Barmby took over at Hull from Pearson and they sank like a stone.

peter taylor took over from MON and ...

[Zingari]

good sound logic except Barmby took over at Hull from Pearson and they sank like a stone.

peter taylor took over from MON and ...

Hull played very well under Barmby for quite some time after if I remember until he needed to make changes. It then seemed he wasn't up to it whereas  Steve Bruce was.

 

And Taylor fooked about with MON's team too much . He brought in grossly over rated and troublesome players instead of building on MON's team 

 

That was really the point I was making   

[fleckneymike]

 

Further to this, It's easy to forget that Hull replaced their manager (Pearson) because they were losing him because he was seen as being a success . Any new man coming in takes a team that is already looking and playing like its on the up . 

 

Leicester replaced a manager who was becoming to be seen as an abject failure , therefore he (Pearson) took a over team on the slide.

 

Can everyone not see the difference in situations ? 

 

It's much easier continuing with success with a team on the up , than turning a team around on the slide. 

Because in the first case very little change ( if any) is needed to keep up or improve the momentum , in the second case much change is needed before halting the slide before improvements can be seen .

 

 

Pearson took over a team 2 pts behind Hull and finished the season 2 pts behind Hull. Did he maintain the slide that season?

 

The 'slide' we were allegedly experiencing, is that still going on, because points wise we were only 2 points better off last season?

[Zingari]

Pearson took over a team 2 pts behind Hull and finished the season 2 pts behind Hull. Did he maintain the slide that season?

 

The 'slide' we were allegedly experiencing, is that still going on, because points wise we were only 2 points better off last season?

Can you really not say that we "look and feel" in a much better position than we were under Sven at end of his time in charge . Regardless of league positions and points tally . I think you're a little hung up on that stuff. 

 

That's the sort of progress i'm talking about."The look and feel"of a team starting to improve .

OK there has been and will be set-backs along the way , and not all his decisions will be good ones ( neither were MON's )

 

Everything about Sven's team looked like a desperate attempt to buy a team and it didn't work and didn't seem to have much future . The owners gambled big time and lost. I would have loved us to have been successful , but in reality , could you see it happening ?

 

They tried a new approach with Pearson , the slow build .( this obviously requires"patience")

Pearson has spent money, but on players that are looking as though they are improving (Matty James as a fine example) , they will mature and get better if we are patient enough to let him do his thing.

 

This is only my opinion of course , but I really can't see any better options for us given the circumstances.

 

I know we'll still be in complete disagreement, but  all the best  anyway  

[fleckneymike]

 

Can you really not say that we "look and feel" in a much better position than we were under Sven at end of his time in charge . Regardless of league positions and points tally . I think you're a little hung up on that stuff. 

 

That's the sort of progress i'm talking about."The look and feel"of a team starting to improve .

OK there has been and will be set-backs along the way , and not all his decisions will be good ones ( neither were MON's )

 

Everything about Sven's team looked like a desperate attempt to buy a team and it didn't work and didn't seem to have much future . The owners gambled big time and lost. I would have loved us to have been successful , but in reality , could you see it happening ?

 

They tried a new approach with Pearson , the slow build .( this obviously requires"patience")

Pearson has spent money, but on players that are looking as though they are improving (Matty James as a fine example) , they will mature and get better if we are patient enough to let him do his thing.

 

This is only my opinion of course , but I really can't see any better options for us given the circumstances.

 

I know we'll still be in complete disagreement, but  all the best  anyway  

 

 

It looks and feels to me that we're 2 points better off.

 

The owners objective is promotion (mine is just attractive football). We got close last season but only because the league got worse (or more competitive depending on your POV).

 

[Zingari]

It looks and feels to me that we're 2 points better off.

 

The owners objective is promotion (mine is just attractive football). We got close last season but only because the league got worse (or more competitive depending on your POV).

 

I suppose we all want to see attractive play and if possible some silverware or promotion , but the reality is only a  few clubs do .

Most fans at the end of the season will be lamenting about missed chances , bad decisions , poor tactics etc etc .

 

Make no mistake, the championship is a very very tough league to get promoted from , But in saying that, most ( if not all) the teams will believe from the outset that they have a real chance of pushing for a play off spot at least . Every team in this league will be hard to beat.

 

Actually I think this year is going to be even tougher than last and I think it would be an excellent achievement to get into the play offs again.

If we don’t , and provided we don’t get relegated ,( his position then would be untenable) I still see this as no reason to sack Pearson.   I still see him as to man to build a team,  because as sure as X is X we are no longer able can’t buy one. ( if we ever were)

Barring real disasters I want him here for a few more years , (and hopefully many more years as a successful manager)

 

I can't see any messiahs out there , maybe you can .

[fleckneymike]

I suppose we all want to see attractive play and if possible some silverware or promotion , but the reality is only a  few clubs do .

Most fans at the end of the season will be lamenting about missed chances , bad decisions , poor tactics etc etc .

 

Make no mistake, the championship is a very very tough league to get promoted from , But in saying that, most ( if not all) the teams will believe from the outset that they have a real chance of pushing for a play off spot at least . Every team in this league will be hard to beat.

 

Actually I think this year is going to be even tougher than last and I think it would be an excellent achievement to get into the play offs again.

If we don’t , and provided we don’t get relegated ,( his position then would be untenable) I still see this as no reason to sack Pearson.   I still see him as to man to build a team,  because as sure as X is X we are no longer able can’t buy one. ( if we ever were)

Barring real disasters I want him here for a few more years , (and hopefully many more years as a successful manager)

 

I can't see any messiahs out there , maybe you can .

 

I don't want a messiah I just want attractive football. I see no point in building anything unless it is an attractive footballing side. We undoubtedly played attractive stuff at the start of last season, then for what ever reason we stopped just as abruptly as we had began. A decent side doesn't cost millions it takes good coaching.

 

Getting into the play offs is not my idea of success, playing attractive football is success as it is more difficult.