Imams willing to marry girls of 14 in secret

[ADK]

I guess hate is a strong word, but the Catholic priests scandal definitely caused some people to question the trust they had placed in religious figures and I think that is a good thing. I haven't heard of instances of churches being burned or people attacked outside churches. 

[Guest MattP]

I guess hate is a strong word, but the Catholic priests scandal definitely caused some people to question the trust they had placed in religious figures and I think that is a good thing. I haven't heard of instances of churches being burned or people attacked outside churches. 

 

Really, numerous Catholic priests have been attacked and a couple murdered over the last few years that have been alledged to be in connection with child abuse.

[Rincewind]

Saw something last night that kinda surprised me. If there is a property built near a church that was originally part of the church they can ask the owners to pay towards the cost of repairs etc. The law dates back a couple of hundred years. Now it has to be put in the deeds.

I think that is scandalous. What if the owners are atheists or do not follow the faith of the church?

Religion has too much power and money.

[ADK]

Really, numerous Catholic priests have been attacked and a couple murdered over the last few years that have been alledged to be in connection with child abuse.

 

Is that in this country? I don't agree with something like that, but I still think these things ought to be made public. It can prevent it happening in the future.

[Captain...]

But we are in the civilised world here, we aren't Africa or India and that's why we don't let it happen. If it was happening in Hindu temples they would get the same treatment.

 

But that's the reason why Africans and Hindus DONT do it here, and that's the reason it isn't a smear campaign against Muslims no matter how much you want it to be portrayed as.

 

We have different values and cultures in the World of course, that doesn't mean you can bring them here, it's also fairly common to stone to death women and hang homosexuals in some countries, I wouldn't be willing to turn a blind eye to it if it was happening in Bradford just because the local community were happy and consented to it.

 

To be honest I think Islam is as stupid a religion as any, probably more so, but I also have very little trust for the press in this country so always try to read through the rhetoric and get to the actual facts. There is a consistent smear campaign, or maybe that is too harsh, maybe it is just profiteering, every paper knows any article like this about muslims will increase viewers/circulation/hit count. 

 

Take this article on the matter, I know it is the Guardian, but it is why I prefer the Guardian, it highlights the issue without agenda or sensationalism, because it is not needed, I know it is from 2004, but if that was the lead article on this thread then I think there would have been a much different reaction:

 

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/feb/22/ukcrime.gender

 

Or this article, that has facts and figures and the FMU deal with around 1500 cases a year, and not just from Asian communities, but Jewish and Roma.

 

http://globaljusticeinitiative.wordpress.com/2012/10/31/child-marriage-britains-hidden-shame/

 

I read the Guardian article and I get a sense of the horror of forced child marriage, I read the global justice article and I get a sense of the scale, I read the ITV article and it just screams of hyperbole, sensationalism and pretty shitty journalism and very little facts.

[ADK]

I guess that is your opinion. I didn't really think the ITV program was that bad, issues have been raised by such media before and yes it's sensationalist but sometimes you need that to get the message out, not everyone is going to tuck into a dissertation on the guardian website.

 

Those programs have exposed a few things recently, scandals in care homes, in hospitals for instance. It's a sensationalist form of media but I don't think it's fair to accuse them of having a xenophobic agenda.

 

The guardian article is very good by the way and the fact it is from 2004 doesn't really matter as the issue hasn't changed since then.

[DennisNedry]

The Guardian is essentially the left-wing loony paper, as the Daily Mail is the right-wing loony paper. The Guardian does do decent stuff on non-political topics but it's just as painful to read as the DM at times on topics like unemployment, immigration etc.

[Zingari]

To be honest I think Islam is as stupid a religion as any, probably more so, but I also have very little trust for the press in this country so always try to read through the rhetoric and get to the actual facts. There is a consistent smear campaign, or maybe that is too harsh, maybe it is just profiteering, every paper knows any article like this about muslims will increase viewers/circulation/hit count. 

 

Take this article on the matter, I know it is the Guardian, but it is why I prefer the Guardian, it highlights the issue without agenda or sensationalism, because it is not needed, I know it is from 2004, but if that was the lead article on this thread then I think there would have been a much different reaction:

 

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/feb/22/ukcrime.gender

 

Or this article, that has facts and figures and the FMU deal with around 1500 cases a year, and not just from Asian communities, but Jewish and Roma.

 

http://globaljusticeinitiative.wordpress.com/2012/10/31/child-marriage-britains-hidden-shame/

 

I read the Guardian article and I get a sense of the horror of forced child marriage, I read the global justice article and I get a sense of the scale, I read the ITV article and it just screams of hyperbole, sensationalism and pretty shitty journalism and very little facts.

You've sure done your homework CPF and pointed out some interesting stuff about it it being more widespread than just the Islamic community, but I doubt if the "reaction" would have been very different  from the 2004 article. 

 

The only difference I would envisage is that instead of being considered anti Islamic , any criticism  would be labelled anti Semitic.

 

Basically any criticism of any other culture would be labelled as racist or reactionary  in some way .It's just the way it is .

 

Somehow Islam and Judaism brings out a more defensive reaction to criticism .  Maybe with good reason ? I really don't know .

[MPH]

Off topic but who was that American singer from a few years back that married an under age girl. Thinking of one from the sixties flower power era.

I know Gerry Lee Lewis did but thinking of another. Sang an old song. Anyway there was a lot of controversy over it.

Thinkong of Tiny Tim Tiptoe through The Tulips but the worse he did was marry on a TV show. I was wrong.

was it bill Wyman? Was in. Relationship with mandy smith when she was 14 and married her at 16..

I think!

[Captain...]

You've sure done your homework CPF and pointed out some interesting stuff about it it being more widespread than just the Islamic community, but I doubt if the "reaction" would have been very different  from the 2004 article. 

 

 

The reactions I meant was from the apathetic, this is a non story, etc not the outrage, the problem is I'm so used to reading these over the top "sensationalist" articles with an agenda, that I tend to want to pick it apart, if they wanted to highlight forced underage marriage and not just smear muslims, then they should have actually talked about how prevalent it is across all communities, not just pat themselves on the back saying look at us we tricked some Imams into agreeing to marry a child, not actually marrying, but just agreeing to.

was it bill Wyman? Was in. Relationship with mandy smith when she was 14 and married her at 16..

I think!

 John Peel shagged some young uns too.

[Zingari]

The reactions I meant was from the apathetic, this is a non story, etc not the outrage, the problem is I'm so used to reading these over the top "sensationalist" articles with an agenda, that I tend to want to pick it apart, if they wanted to highlight forced underage marriage and not just smear muslims, then they should have actually talked about how prevalent it is across all communities, not just pat themselves on the back saying look at us we tricked some Imams into agreeing to marry a child, not actually marrying, but just agreeing to.

 John Peel shagged some young uns too.

Yes I do see your point , but whichever group is targeted , or seen to be indulging in these practices would have the same argument that they are unfairly singled out .

 

Self congratulation is the lifeblood of the press , we have to accept that  though

[Idioteque]

The reactions I meant was from the apathetic, this is a non story, etc not the outrage, the problem is I'm so used to reading these over the top "sensationalist" articles with an agenda, that I tend to want to pick it apart, if they wanted to highlight forced underage marriage and not just smear muslims, then they should have actually talked about how prevalent it is across all communities, not just pat themselves on the back saying look at us we tricked some Imams into agreeing to marry a child, not actually marrying, but just agreeing to.

 John Peel shagged some young uns too.

 

Now then now then...

[davieG]

Off topic but who was that American singer from a few years back that married an under age girl. Thinking of one from the sixties flower power era.

I know Gerry Lee Lewis did but thinking of another. Sang an old song. Anyway there was a lot of controversy over it.

 

Thinkong of Tiny Tim Tiptoe through The Tulips but the worse he did was marry on a TV show. I was wrong.

Jerry Lee Lewis married a 14 year old which was legal in his home state in the USA and was refused entry to the UK.

[Rincewind]

Jerry Lee Lewis married a 14 year old which was legal in his home state in the USA and was refused entry to the UK.

Yeah I know about him and the others. I just got Tiny Tim in my head for some reason. Now that damn song keeps coming up.

He married someone on a TV show. Maybe that was objected to. Never said her age on Wikki.

[Guest MattP]

That's some serious hypocrisy there.

Again, a case of a lefty bending over and receiving it from Islam.

[Captain...]

CPFs view on the age of consent as applied to white people.

 

 

Different rule for muzzo's though, where it's

 

 

Superb stuff from the showerless one. He really is one creepy mother fokker.

 

Right you tiresome fvcking troll, I've put you on ignore, I've asked you to put me on ignore, and yet you still continue to troll after me scouring through this thread looking for some perceived contradiction to make more personal insults. 

 

So to explain to a fvcking moron like you, I don't care if 14 year olds have consensual sex, I really don't, regardless of religion...

 

...but, and this might be the hard part for you to understand as it involves a bit of lateral thinking, this doesn't mean I want the age of consent lowered, as I don't think it should be legal as there needs to be protection for minors and by lowering the age of consent you may be leaving them more at risk to abuse.

 

Now seriously your obsession with me is getting creepy, fvck off!

[The People's Hero]

That's some serious hypocrisy there.

Again, a case of a lefty bending over and receiving it from Islam.

Interesting as those that defend Muslims (who can absolutely not profit from the work of others due to sharia law, hence specific financial products and instruments and insurances are available here in the UK) are the same as those that champion the cause of the workshy scroungers who absolutely thrive and depend on profiting from the work of others

It's great to be a caring sharing leftie, but it's all very superficial and they just don't like being challenged on it.

Ps the Islamic financial products etc like their equivalent to our mortgages and some of their specific insurance products are very good. May have avoided some systemic financial problems if we could learn a few lessons ourselves.

[MooseBreath]

I don't care if 14 year olds have consensual sex...

by lowering the age of consent you may be leaving them more at risk to abuse.

Surely the age of consent is in place precisely because we don't believe 14-year-olds are mature enough to make the right decision? So we deem their consent irrelevant for that reason? So on the one hand you think it's fine for 14-year-olds of any religion to make that decision, while on the other hand you don't think it's fine for 14-year-olds to make that decision.

Forgive me, I'm trying my best to "think laterally" here but no, that seems a rather insurmountable contradiction.

[Zingari]

Yeah I know about him and the others. I just got Tiny Tim in my head for some reason. Now that damn song keeps coming up.

He married someone on a TV show. Maybe that was objected to. Never said her age on Wikki.

Tiny Tim married "Miss Vicky" on a tv show , she was about 17 though . It may have been on the Rowan and Martin's show or something similar .

There were quite a few whisperings around pop stars of the time that liked  very young girls. One of the Bay City Rollers was suspected if I remember , but I doubt if that's who you had in mind 

[The Year Of The Fox]

There was an old man name Kadira

Who with young girls he'd like to interferer

A third world religion in a first world country is apparently something not to be sneered at

[Captain...]

Surely the age of consent is in place precisely because we don't believe 14-year-olds are mature enough to make the right decision? So we deem their consent irrelevant for that reason? So on the one hand you think it's fine for 14-year-olds of any religion to make that decision, while on the other hand you don't think it's fine for 14-year-olds to make that decision.

Forgive me, I'm trying my best to "think laterally" here but no, that seems a rather insurmountable contradiction.

 

Don't strain your brain cell,

 

Think of it like the age for drinking, lots of 16-17 year olds go to pubs and drink, even though it is illegal, I've not got a problem with 16-17 year olds drinking, but I wouldn't advocate lowering the legal age as it would make it easier for 16-17 year olds to access alcohol.

 

Does that make sense?

[Rincewind]

Don't strain your brain cell,

 

Think of it like the age for drinking, lots of 16-17 year olds go to pubs and drink, even though it is illegal, I've not got a problem with 16-17 year olds drinking, but I wouldn't advocate lowering the legal age as it would make it easier for 16-17 year olds to access alcohol.

 

Does that make sense?

 

Makes sense to me.

Also 12-15 year olds would be drinking. (Some probably do now) but there has to be a cut off age.

[MooseBreath]

Don't strain your brain cell,

Think of it like the age for drinking, lots of 16-17 year olds go to pubs and drink, even though it is illegal, I've not got a problem with 16-17 year olds drinking, but I wouldn't advocate lowering the legal age as it would make it easier for 16-17 year olds to access alcohol.

Does that make sense?

What you've said makes sense yes, but I personally would have thought that a 17-year-old consenting to consume a sneaky couple of beers is somewhat less serious than a 14-year-old girl consenting to enter a sexually active marriage with a considerably older man.

[Guest MattP]

Are we actually comparing a 17 year old going out for a beer to a 14 year old girl being fcuked?

[Guest MattP]

Actually genuinely worried about some people on this board are getting up to.