Imams willing to marry girls of 14 in secret

[MooseBreath]

That CPF post makes me want to throw up. Sickening how these so called liberals can be so unmoved by the blatant exploitation of children. How completely fvcked must you be in the head to value not offending other liberals who may be offended on behalf of Muslims over the welfare of a child? I honestly find that thought process physically repulsive and it makes me want to wretch like the smell of a bad egg. Horrible rotten scum.

[Smudge]

Hmm, I'm going to guess here that these marriages are not registered, so not recognised by anyone other than the mosque, so therefore not illegal as not a marriage, no different to a couple of hippies tying flowers around their wrists and declaring their eternal love in front of Gaia.

Now the age thing, as others have said consent is different for other countries and cultures, but that is for sex, now as long as no sex happens in this so-called marriage, then no UK law has been broken.

Finally the forced aspect of it, this is generally forced by the parents and is therefore an arranged marriage not a forced one, but as it is not a legal marriage, should they not like it they can leave.

How about child abandonment? The parents are certainly guilty of that.

They are also potentially placing the child in harms way.

I don't know anything about the adoption laws but the process has to be overseen by the authorities.

 

As to why we care, here's why. Lets say your daughter decides to become a Muslim and marries into a strict Muslim family. They have children and your granddaughter is married off to some man she doesn't know at the age of 14. How well will you and your spouse deal with that?

 

Edit: last bit not aimed at you Capt

[The Doctor]

Finally the forced aspect of it, this is generally forced by the parents and is therefore an arranged marriage not a forced one, but as it is not a legal marriage, should they not like it they can leave.

Not really - where are they going to go? Forced by parents, the parents are going to insist they stay in them, and we'll be talking about very conservative families - only other adult figures will be the imam, so no hope there either. Easy to say they could leave but in reality it is not possible.

[James.]

That CPF post makes me want to throw up. Sickening how these so called liberals can be so unmoved by the blatant exploitation of children. How completely fvcked must you be in the head to value not offending other liberals who may be offended on behalf of Muslims over the welfare of a child? I honestly find that thought process physically repulsive and it makes me want to wretch like the smell of a bad egg. Horrible rotten scum.

 

Typically provocative language from MB but I must say I agree to a certain extent. The CPF posts are classic examples of when someone appears willfully ignorant to the reality of a situation in a desperate attempt to cling to a liberal / left wing set of values. And I say that as a pretty liberal person myself.

[Vacamion]

That CPF post makes me want to throw up. Sickening how these so called liberals can be so unmoved by the blatant exploitation of children. How completely fvcked must you be in the head to value not offending other liberals who may be offended on behalf of Muslims over the welfare of a child? I honestly find that thought process physically repulsive and it makes me want to wretch like the smell of a bad egg. Horrible rotten scum.

 

I'm not sure what Sigmund Freud would have made of all the repulsion references but I gather you're not a fan of CPF's post then, MB??

[The God Emperor]

looks like Islam is trying its best to out do Catholicism. But now that the Jews own the holy land what else do they have to fight over?

[Rincewind]

A level head is needed with these things.

[davieG]

A level head is needed with these things.

[Rincewind]

close enough

[Idioteque]

Bill Wyman of the Rolling Stones couldn't do any harm then!

[Captain...]

It was made clear to the imam in the video clip that was shown on ITV a few days ago that the child did not want to get married but that the parents wanted her to be.

I didn't mention paedophilia although it would be extremely naïve to think that it doesn't happen when a 14 year old is living with a 20 year old and they are "married".

I don't agree with simply stating that these children can choose to leave so it's all ok, it's not an easy thing for a child to leave an abusive situation. It's not even easy for adults to leave an abusive situation. It's especially hard when that persons family and religious community would disown them if they left.

I don't think the headline is "outrageous" as they have evidence to back it up, nor is it "designed to stir up anti Muslim feelings".

If someone could provide evidence that these children that get married off as teenagers are still just as likely to go on to have successful careers, achieve well academically and are no more likely to suffer from domestic abuse, then it might help to make it seem less of an issue.

Didn't watch the video, only read the article, if they are being forced against their will to marry and then the Imam knows, then of course he shouldn't agree to it, and of course he there is any evidence of rape then it should be dealt with by the full force of the law. But I would have thought if they had any it would be in the article.

As for the article, it is outrageous and sensationalist because it is implying that the majority of imams are marrying teenagers regularly, when it is not the case.

@Matt, the live and let live was on the assumption that the 14 year old was ok with the situation, in which case it is just a different culture, with different values, no different to many other cultures where 14 is deemed old enough to consent to sex.

There was an attempt a few years ago to encourage women in 'forced' marriages to come forward and be protected by the state, very few women came forward. It may be that they were too scared, or it may be that once again the media twist on these stories grossly exaggerate the problem to sell more papers.

If you have any further evidence on these matters I will gladly read it and comment.

[I am Rod Hull]

Didn't watch the video, only read the article, if they are being forced against their will to marry and then the Imam knows, then of course he shouldn't agree to it, and of course he there is any evidence of rape then it should be dealt with by the full force of the law. But I would have thought if they had any it would be in the article.

As for the article, it is outrageous and sensationalist because it is implying that the majority of imams are marrying teenagers regularly, when it is not the case.

@Matt, the live and let live was on the assumption that the 14 year old was ok with the situation, in which case it is just a different culture, with different values, no different to many other cultures where 14 is deemed old enough to consent to sex.

There was an attempt a few years ago to encourage women in 'forced' marriages to come forward and be protected by the state, very few women came forward. It may be that they were too scared, or it may be that once again the media twist on these stories grossly exaggerate the problem to sell more papers.

If you have any further evidence on these matters I will gladly read it and comment.

 

WOW! 

[Rincewind]

Off topic but who was that American singer from a few years back that married an under age girl. Thinking of one from the sixties flower power era.

I know Gerry Lee Lewis did but thinking of another. Sang an old song. Anyway there was a lot of controversy over it.

 

Thinkong of Tiny Tim Tiptoe through The Tulips but the worse he did was marry on a TV show. I was wrong.

[DennisNedry]

Pancake face usually comes across as a well rounded and intelligent bloke despite his overly left wing opinions on most things, but some of the stuff on this thread is unbelievable.

If you are going to 'live and let live' on 14 year olds getting forced marriages (and obviously rape follows) then you are basically turning a blind eye to paedophilia and abuse. And how a 14 year old girl can be 'ok with the situation is beyond me, how can a 14 year old consent to the situation? This is a clear case of Islam having no respect for women. These girls are essentially sex toys for some sick blokes.

 

I'm not suggesting the practice is widespread, but neither is general paedophilia, and we have a very strong stance on that.

[Guest MattP]

Pancake face usually comes across and well rounded and intelligent despite his overly left wing opinions on most things, but some of the stuff on this thread is unbelievable.

If you are going to 'live and let live' on 14 year olds getting forced marriages (and obviously rape follows) then you are basically turning a blind eye to paedophilia and abuse. And how a 14 year old girl can be 'ok with the situation is beyond me, how can a 14 year old consent to the situation? This is a clear case of Islam having no respect for women. These girls are essentially sex toys for some sick blokes.

 

I'm not suggesting the practice is widespread, but neither is general paedophilia, and we have a very strong stance on that.

 

Pretty much posted exactly what I was going to. I'm not going to say I feel as sick as Moosebreath reading it but I feel very very uncomfortable at the least taking it in.

 

CPF is a quality poster but I just find this stuff absolutely indefensible. Do you turn a blind eye at 13 as well? 12? Or is the line 14? Do you think girls at that age are capable of making a decision to get married? I think 16 is pushing it personally.

 

How can you ever be in a position to claim again he doesn't see Islam as being treated differently or preferentially when you think we should turn a blind eye to those who want marry 14 year olds.

[Rincewind]

On UK soil it would be illegal. So they would be arrested if it went on.

[Guest MattP]

On UK soil it would be illegal. So they would be arrested if it went on.

 

And how are the police going to find out?

[Zingari]

Off topic but who was that American singer from a few years back that married an under age girl. Thinking of one from the sixties flower power era.

I know Gerry Lee Lewis did but thinking of another. Sang an old song. Anyway there was a lot of controversy over it.

 

Thinkong of Tiny Tim Tiptoe through The Tulips but the worse he did was marry on a TV show. I was wrong.

Elvis ? Wasn't Priscilla very young ( 14 maybe?)when they got together? 

but yes, very much off topic   

[Zingari]

On UK soil it would be illegal. So they would be arrested if it went on.

what about if they put a blanket down first?

 

 

 

 

 

edit;

I know it's not a subject to be joked about, and I'm really not,  just the wording of the post 

[Rincewind]

I'm pretty sure most Imams would advise their congregation to follow UK law. But then again the Pope or bishops do not all seem to be rushing to stop the occasional liaison with choirboys by priests so who knows.

I know one priest and he's a decent bloke. He runs his own church on Abbey Lane which is not tied to any well known church's.

I know a Roman Catholic who is gay. So just because you follow whatever faith it does not mean you have to stick to all their rules.

Most rules were added later by their leaders to keep people on the straight and narrow. A child was more likely to behave if they thought some demon was going to douse them in flames. It gave them nightmares but the parents slept well.

 

If these marriages do go on then they should be investigated and dealt with.

 

They should have had alleged in the  headline or in the body of the article as the investigation is ongoing and nothing proved.

[Captain...]

Pretty much posted exactly what I was going to. I'm not going to say I feel as sick as Moosebreath reading it but I feel very very uncomfortable at the least taking it in.

CPF is a quality poster but I just find this stuff absolutely indefensible. Do you turn a blind eye at 13 as well? 12? Or is the line 14? Do you think girls at that age are capable of making a decision to get married? I think 16 is pushing it personally.

How can you ever be in a position to claim again he doesn't see Islam as being treated differently or preferentially when you think we should turn a blind eye to those who want marry 14 year olds.

I think the age of consent has been discussed on here before, 14 is considered legal and adult in a number of countries. Was I mature enough at 14 to make these kind of decisions? Nope, probably still not now, but that doesn't mean others. I read the article when very tired as I've been working in Canada and missed the whole forced bit. I don't agree with that and obviously sex with a 14 year old is illegal in this country, so should be punished, although there was no mention of sex in the article, just marriage, so I chose to ignore the likelihood of sex as I don't really have any issue with 14 year olds having consensual sex. There is an age difference issue raised by the article, but again the article was about marriage and not sex. A 14 year old having sex with a 30 year old is pretty wrong, but then so is a 16 year old having sex with a 30 year old, the only difference is an arbitrary, but an understandable, line in the sand.

I've still not watched the video, but if it is clear the marriage is against the wishes of the child it shouldn't be conducted by an Imam, and as it is clearly not a valid marriage as one party is too young, then, until I know the legal ramifications of this type of religious ceremony then it is hard to get worked up.

Basically if it is consenting 14 year old getting 'married' and having consensual sex and it is approved by their parents then I'm not bothered. Their life they can do what they want.

I don't agree with parents forcing their kids to 'marry' especially to a much older person, it is sick, especially as it is most likely done to increase the power or wealth of a family.

My views would be the same regardless of religion, it is prevalent amongst Hindus in India, and in Christian countries in Africa. Which is why I see this as another Muslim smear campaign, designed to stir up anti Muslim feelings.

[Guest MattP]

I think the age of consent has been discussed on here before, 14 is considered legal and adult in a number of countries. Was I mature enough at 14 to make these kind of decisions? Nope, probably still not now, but that doesn't mean others. I read the article when very tired as I've been working in Canada and missed the whole forced bit. I don't agree with that and obviously sex with a 14 year old is illegal in this country, so should be punished, although there was no mention of sex in the article, just marriage, so I chose to ignore the likelihood of sex as I don't really have any issue with 14 year olds having consensual sex. There is an age difference issue raised by the article, but again the article was about marriage and not sex. A 14 year old having sex with a 30 year old is pretty wrong, but then so is a 16 year old having sex with a 30 year old, the only difference is an arbitrary, but an understandable, line in the sand.

I've still not watched the video, but if it is clear the marriage is against the wishes of the child it shouldn't be conducted by an Imam, and as it is clearly not a valid marriage as one party is too young, then, until I know the legal ramifications of this type of religious ceremony then it is hard to get worked up.

Basically if it is consenting 14 year old getting 'married' and having consensual sex and it is approved by their parents then I'm not bothered. Their life they can do what they want.

I don't agree with parents forcing their kids to 'marry' especially to a much older person, it is sick, especially as it is most likely done to increase the power or wealth of a family.

My views would be the same regardless of religion, it is prevalent amongst Hindus in India, and in Christian countries in Africa. Which is why I see this as another Muslim smear campaign, designed to stir up anti Muslim feelings.

 

But we are in the civilised world here, we aren't Africa or India and that's why we don't let it happen. If it was happening in Hindu temples they would get the same treatment.

 

But that's the reason why Africans and Hindus DONT do it here, and that's the reason it isn't a smear campaign against Muslims no matter how much you want it to be portrayed as.

 

We have different values and cultures in the World of course, that doesn't mean you can bring them here, it's also fairly common to stone to death women and hang homosexuals in some countries, I wouldn't be willing to turn a blind eye to it if it was happening in Bradford just because the local community were happy and consented to it.

[ADK]

I do think 16 is too young to get married too. Even if it does stir up anti Muslim feelings I don't see why that is such a problem. I certainly think so called liberals and left wingers afford far too much leniency to Islam. It's obviously one of the most threatening ideologies on the planet right now.

[Rincewind]

Whenever Islam is mentioned it does stir up feelings and images of hate in all kinds of people which is ironic really because Islam means peace.

Actually having looked the word is hard to define as well as

 

I. The Meaning of Islam. Islam is derived from the Arabic root "Salema": peace, purity, submission and obedience. In the religious sense, Islam means ...

 

it can also mean submission to God

 

I am not going through the many different definitions. Choose one to suit your views.

 

I don't agree with forced marriage or sex under 16 so if anyone is breaking the law and it can be proven then I say convict them.

[Guest MattP]

I do think 16 is too young to get married too. Even if it does stir up anti Muslim feelings I don't see why that is such a problem. I certainly think so called liberals and left wingers afford far too much leniency to Islam. It's obviously one of the most threatening ideologies on the planet right now.

 

I was moaning (as I'm sure you all imagine) that some (and it is only a minority) leftists will do anything to excuse behaviour of some Muslims ten years ago, even then I never thought it would go as far as turning a bline eye to paedophilia in Britain. God knows what they will be justifying in 2023.

 

Whenever Islam is mentioned it does stir up feelings and images of hate in all kinds of people which is ironic really because Islam means peace.

 

Where on earth do you get this stuff from? How can a religion that has the Qu'ran as it's text be described as anything like peaceful.

It means submission to the will of God in most strains of the religion.