Imams willing to marry girls of 14 in secret

[Ric Flair]

If it helps I had my first ale at 10 and was nobbing some 15 year old when I was 12. It's frightening to think if i'd not been rolling one on I could have an 18 year old kid by now. Hahahahaa magic.

[Captain...]

Are we actually comparing a 17 year old going out for a beer to a 14 year old girl being fcuked?

 

No Matt we are comparing age laws and how they are arbitrary lines in the sand and there are some below that age that want to, are mature enough to and will have sex and drink and do many things below the legal age, I have no problem with that and I believe if a 14 year old wants to have consensual sex then neither they nor their sexual partner (regardless of age) should be punished for doing something natural. As soon as any sort of coercion or grooming or force is involved or any indication that someone has been taken advantage of sexually then I'm obviously against it, but I think that regardless of age.

If it helps I had my first ale at 10 and was nobbing some 15 year old when I was 12. It's frightening to think if i'd not been rolling one on I could have an 18 year old kid by now. Hahahahaa magic.

 

Paedophile  

[MooseBreath]

You're still trying to have it both ways. Grooming and coercion leads to consent. Most of the victims of grooming gangs will have consented at some point. The whole point of the age of consent is to stop older men (and women) from using their maturity advantage to trick young members of the opposite sex into consenting. So if you think it's fine as long as the girl consents you might as well not have an age of consent at all.

[Captain...]

You're still trying to have it both ways. Grooming and coercion leads to consent. Most of the victims of grooming gangs will have consented at some point. The whole point of the age of consent is to stop older men (and women) from using their maturity advantage to trick young members of the opposite sex into consenting. So if you think it's fine as long as the girl consents you might as well not have an age of consent at all.

 

I don't think we should need an age of consent, but I understand why we do, I also don't think that grooming and coercion, "tricking people into having sex", should only apply to under 16s, I think it is just as abhorrent to trick a 16 year old, 30 year old, 60 year old into giving up the goods. The problem is burden of proof, how can you prove that someone was saying nice things to you and buying you presents and sweets to get into your pants. By having the age of consent law it removes the need for a burden of proof, should you have sex with a minor and they go to the police you are fvcked, because even if you had a video of her consenting it is not valid, I'm not sure how her lying about her age works as a defence, but I think you're still fvcked. So the consent law won't stop people having under aged sex, but it will hopefully, make people think before entering into a sexual relationship with someone who is below the legal age of consent, and not just plough in.

 

I'm pretty sure that Ric Flair isn't the only one on here who technically committed a paedophilic act when younger, even I managed to get some under the duvet fun before I was 16, and I was a geek at an all boys school who doesn't shower very often.

 

So to go back to my original "contradiction", I don't have any problem with a 14 year old having consensual and uncoerced sex with an older person, but I'm happy that there is an age of consent law that means the older person has to be very careful in how they behave. The risk of course is that even if you are the perfect gentleman and a tender lover, one slip, one argument, or one perceived slight and you could find yourself in some serious shit with no defence, that alone should be enough to dissuade all but the most hormone charged teenager.

 

It is sad that we need a law to regulate what is a natural desire, and in an ideal world people would be free to have sex when they felt ready to, but unfortunately there are many dangerous and aggressive predators out there and there does need to be some protection for the vulnerable.

[Dr The Singh]

My 2 pence piece!

 

Comming from an ancenstry that has many cultural deviations on age, sexuality etc, one thing I love about being british, english is that we have a set of morals and laws that takes all perspectives into account but does the right thing and having a daughter of similar age there is no god, tradition, or law that would ever make me think she should be married at that age.

 

I know for a fact, I could coerse, manipulate a chid into doing virtually anything, and getting there consent on it...........is this right?   There are cultures in the world that marry there child to a religion, a priest, and used for religious prostitution, and this is with her consent, as she believes she is doing service to god....I know that is an extreme but even the most mature of 14 year olds do not have life experience or judgements on what marriage is!!

 

The parent who asked the Imam and if the Imam agreed both should be prosecuted as per law!!

[Strokes]

My 2 pence piece!

Comming from an ancenstry that has many cultural deviations on age, sexuality etc, one thing I love about being british, english is that we have a set of morals and laws that takes all perspectives into account but does the right thing and having a daughter of similar age there is no god, tradition, or law that would ever make me think she should be married at that age.

I know for a fact, I could coerse, manipulate a chid into doing virtually anything, and getting there consent on it...........is this right? There are cultures in the world that marry there child to a religion, a priest, and used for religious prostitution, and this is with her consent, as she believes she is doing service to god....I know that is an extreme but even the most mature of 14 year olds do not have life experience or judgements on what marriage is!!

The parent who asked the Imam and if the Imam agreed both should be prosecuted as per law!!

Well said sir, I wholeheartedly agree. It's nice to see it wrapped up in a positive post.

[absolutelegend]

Are we actually comparing a 17 year old going out for a beer to a 14 year old girl being fcuked?

 

I actually think they are!  This message board never fails to amaze me.

[Dr The Singh]

I don't think we should need an age of consent, but I understand why we do, I also don't think that grooming and coercion, "tricking people into having sex", should only apply to under 16s, I think it is just as abhorrent to trick a 16 year old, 30 year old, 60 year old into giving up the goods. The problem is burden of proof, how can you prove that someone was saying nice things to you and buying you presents and sweets to get into your pants. By having the age of consent law it removes the need for a burden of proof, should you have sex with a minor and they go to the police you are fvcked, because even if you had a video of her consenting it is not valid, I'm not sure how her lying about her age works as a defence, but I think you're still fvcked. So the consent law won't stop people having under aged sex, but it will hopefully, make people think before entering into a sexual relationship with someone who is below the legal age of consent, and not just plough in.

 

I'm pretty sure that Ric Flair isn't the only one on here who technically committed a paedophilic act when younger, even I managed to get some under the duvet fun before I was 16, and I was a geek at an all boys school who doesn't shower very often.

 

So to go back to my original "contradiction", I don't have any problem with a 14 year old having consensual and uncoerced sex with an older person, but I'm happy that there is an age of consent law that means the older person has to be very careful in how they behave. The risk of course is that even if you are the perfect gentleman and a tender lover, one slip, one argument, or one perceived slight and you could find yourself in some serious shit with no defence, that alone should be enough to dissuade all but the most hormone charged teenager.

 

It is sad that we need a law to regulate what is a natural desire, and in an ideal world people would be free to have sex when they felt ready to, but unfortunately there are many dangerous and aggressive predators out there and there does need to be some protection for the vulnerable.

Mr Pancakeface, just a question, how many children do you have and do you have any daughters and are they or have been 14?

Well said sir, I wholeheartedly agree. It's nice to see it wrapped up in a positive post.

Thanks buddy!!

[Dan]

Are we actually comparing a 17 year old going out for a beer to a 14 year old girl being fcuked?

 

I thought I was going mad. Never read owt like this.

[Captain...]

Mr Pancakeface, just a question, how many children do you have and do you have any daughters and are they or have been 14?

Thanks buddy!!

 

None, that doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on it, and I can't deny my opinion might change if/when I am in that situation, but if I had a 14 year old daughter and she wanted to enter a sexual relationship with her boyfriend (who lets say was 16 and a decent human being and they had been together for a few months) I like to think that in the unlikely event she would actually tell me about it or ask my advice I would be ok with it, if I felt that she was making an informed decision and not acting against her wishes, better that than have her sneaking around and being too scared to seek advice should something happen.

 

Now say he was 30 years old and not somebody I liked or trusted and despite my best advice she continued seeing him, I would not be happy with them having a sexual relationship, I would talk to both of them very seriously, but unless I believed he had forced her anyway I wouldn't get the police involved and get him banged up as a nonce. Again that is thinking about it logically and disconnected to the situation, in reality I might kill him, dunno.

 

My point is, 14 year olds have sex, if they do it responsibly it is not a big deal, I have taken out the religious aspect of it for now and the last few of my posts, it is more about consent, but going back to the original post if I have no problem with 14 year olds having sex, I can't really have a problem with them getting married which is obviously more of a commitment than sex, but I do agree with your points, I don't think all 14 year olds should get married nor should they all be having sex, but if they are ready for it and consenting then that should be their choice, and this is where I don't agree with the forced marriages of any kind of any age, and age difference, if it is not the will of the people getting married then it shouldn't happen. That is regardless of religion and age.

[Captain...]

I actually think they are!  This message board never fails to amaze me.

 

 

I thought I was going mad. Never read owt like this.

 

You are right, everything is actually black and white, everyone who has had any sort of sexual contact with an underage girl is a paedophile, lets round them up.

 

http://observer.theguardian.com/sex/story/0,,818356,00.html

 

 

 

32% of Britons lost their virginity before the legal age of consent of 16.

 

that is around 20 million people that were having sex before 16, that means there were 20 million sexual partners who were "fvcking kids", operation yew tree will be going on for a long time.

[Guest MattP]

I don't know why you are quoting this. People aren't getting upset at a 16 year old shagging a 15 year old.

 

The sort of people going to a mosque to marry 14 year olds in secret aren't teenage lads believe me, that's the issue.

[Captain...]

I don't know why you are quoting this. People aren't getting upset at a 16 year old shagging a 15 year old.

 

The sort of people going to a mosque to marry 14 year olds in secret aren't teenage lads believe me, that's the issue.

 

But it is still illegal Matt, or is a 15 year old only capable of making a mature decision over sex if it is with a 16 year old? How does the age of the partner affect their ability to make a mature decision?

[Webbo]

But it is still illegal Matt, or is a 15 year old only capable of making a mature decision over sex if it is with a 16 year old? How does the age of the partner affect their ability to make a mature decision?

It should affect the ability of the partner.

[Dr The Singh]

None, that doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on it, and I can't deny my opinion might change if/when I am in that situation, but if I had a 14 year old daughter and she wanted to enter a sexual relationship with her boyfriend (who lets say was 16 and a decent human being and they had been together for a few months) I like to think that in the unlikely event she would actually tell me about it or ask my advice I would be ok with it, if I felt that she was making an informed decision and not acting against her wishes, better that than have her sneaking around and being too scared to seek advice should something happen.

 

Now say he was 30 years old and not somebody I liked or trusted and despite my best advice she continued seeing him, I would not be happy with them having a sexual relationship, I would talk to both of them very seriously, but unless I believed he had forced her anyway I wouldn't get the police involved and get him banged up as a nonce. Again that is thinking about it logically and disconnected to the situation, in reality I might kill him, dunno.

 

My point is, 14 year olds have sex, if they do it responsibly it is not a big deal, I have taken out the religious aspect of it for now and the last few of my posts, it is more about consent, but going back to the original post if I have no problem with 14 year olds having sex, I can't really have a problem with them getting married which is obviously more of a commitment than sex, but I do agree with your points, I don't think all 14 year olds should get married nor should they all be having sex, but if they are ready for it and consenting then that should be their choice, and this is where I don't agree with the forced marriages of any kind of any age, and age difference, if it is not the will of the people getting married then it shouldn't happen. That is regardless of religion and age.

I mean no disrespect Captain, in my experience my outlook on life, morals, dignity and everything else that makes me human changed when I had children, especially my daughters!!

 

You can see what i'm trying to say.........

 

I disagree with alot you have said....

[Dr The Singh]

I don't know why you are quoting this. People aren't getting upset at a 16 year old shagging a 15 year old.

 

The sort of people going to a mosque to marry 14 year olds in secret aren't teenage lads believe me, that's the issue.

I agree, but even if it was a 15 marrying a 16, what sort of married life are they going to have?

[Captain...]

It should affect the ability of the partner.

 

True, but if a 15 year old is capable of making a decision over sex with a 16 year old, then they are capable of making a decision over a 30 year old, likewise a 30 year old should be capable of making a decision over who he sleeps with and of course you have to question why a 30 year old would be interested in someone so much younger than themselves. But when you live in a world where teenagers are paraded round as sex symbols is there really any surprise that older men find them attractive, but that is another story. My whole point of view is that if 2 people want to have sex or get married for genuine reasons, then I don't see why they shouldn't.

[Captain...]

I mean no disrespect Captain, in my experience my outlook on life, morals, dignity and everything else that makes me human changed when I had children, especially my daughters!!

 

You can see what i'm trying to say.........

 

I disagree with alot you have said....

 

None taken, I am sure that my views will change when I have kids, and I am not trying to change your views about your children, you know them and know how mature they are and whether they are capable of making an informed decision about such matters, it is more of  theoretical debate at the moment.

 

I am certainly not trying to convince anyone to let their under age kids have sex or get married, but I do genuinely believe they have the right to do so should they so choose, and many do, I would never encourage anyone to have sex and my advice would be the same, but I wouldn't try to stop anyone from choosing to do so.By demonising it and stigmatising it, you risk making it into a bigger problem.

 

To be honest I am just trying to point out that things aren't as black and white as people like to think on here, a 14 year old getting married doesn't immediately make me think about abuse and paedophilia, in some cases it is fine, if it is what both partied want, and the hysteria around under age sex just winds me up, because it is nothing like paedophilia or rape, it is not abuse and it shouldn't be treated in the same way.

 

Anyway I think I've made my point, and I hope it hasn't come across too paedoey.

 

In conclusion:

 

Consensual sex between the sexually mature: Ok

Paedophilia: Bad

Forced marriages: Bad

[I am Rod Hull]

True, but if a 15 year old is capable of making a decision over sex with a 16 year old, then they are capable of making a decision over a 30 year old, likewise a 30 year old should be capable of making a decision over who he sleeps with and of course you have to question why a 30 year old would be interested in someone so much younger than themselves. But when you live in a world where teenagers are paraded round as sex symbols is there really any surprise that older men find them attractive, but that is another story. My whole point of view is that if 2 people want to have sex or get married for genuine reasons, then I don't see why they shouldn't.

 

14 year old kids are not emotionally mature enough to make these decisions, are they. This is why we have laws in place to protect them from this shite.

[Captain...]

14 year old kids are not emotionally mature enough to make these decisions, are they. This is why we have laws in place to protect them from this shite.

 

Are 16 year olds?

[I am Rod Hull]

Are 16 year olds?

 

Are 12 year olds?

 

You know full well that the maturity of the majority of teenagers is going to be higher at 16 than it is at 14.

[Captain...]

Are 12 year olds?

 

Ask Ric Flair

 

But the correct answer is that no, just by being 16 you do not necessarily have the sexual and emotional maturity to make that decision, which makes the law kinda redundant. The measure of the persons emotional and sexual maturity should be based on their emotional and sexual maturity, not on their age, should a 14 year old be emotionally and sexually mature to make that decision, which is probably a very small number of them and even fewer still at 12, but maturity comes at different stages, then why should they be stopped when a 16 year old who isn't mature is free to do so?

[absolutelegend]

I am gobsmacked that a minority of people on this board appear to be either condining this act, or are willing to looking for some kind of justification for it.

underage girls need protection from people who participate in this act, and also from those who condone it by turning a blind eye to it.  thankfully the laws of this country support this.

i really don't see what is up for debate.

[Captain...]

I am gobsmacked that a minority of people on this board appear to be either condining this act, or are willing to looking for some kind of justification for it.

underage girls need protection from people who participate in this act, and also from those who condone it by turning a blind eye to it.  thankfully the laws of this country support this.

i really don't see what is up for debate.

 

are you talking about forced marriages or under age sex in general? Most of my posts have been about under age sex in general, I'm not condoning it, I'm just not condemning it is evil sickening and the same thing as paedophilia. Forced marriage is bad.

[ADK]

I doubt anyone here thinks a 16 year old ****ing a 15 year old is evil or sickening, I really don't know what it has to do with the topic though. I do think a 30 year old shouldn't be allowed to have a relationship with a 15 year old though, if he really loves her that much it's not going to hurt to wait until she's legal.