International minnow farce, make them play each other?

[Guest MattP]

While we are about farcical subjects in International football I'd like to raise this one again.

 

Some nations are not fit to be playing the top sides, its annoying, uncompetitive, rips fans off and is generally looked upon as wrong. Also losing 5,6,7-0 every week does not aid development.

 

San Marino simply shouldn't be allowed to play in any International competition. 8 games, 8 lost, scored 0 conceded nearly 50, in a group as shit as ours as well. It's humiliating and wouldn't happen in any other sport if a team or individual was that far below the rest of the field.

 

So let's dump all these teams at the bottom in a pre group to be played next time around, shorten the other groups by one, saves two fixtures a season to create space in the calender while this lot battle it out against each other. The winner can try and qualify next time around and the next most hopeless teams drops into the minor tournament.

 

So it's (as it stands)

 

Liechenstein

Azerbaijan

Cyprus

Andorra

Faroe Islands

Malta

Belarus

San Marino

Wales

 

These lot have their own group while the rest of Europe plays and the winner of that comes back in for 2018 World Cup qualifying.

 

Thoughts?

[Donut]

While we are about farcical subjects in International football I'd like to raise this one again.

 

Some nations are not fit to be playing the top sides, its annoying, uncompetitive, rips fans off and is generally looked upon as wrong. Also losing 5,6,7-0 every week does not aid development.

 

San Marino simply shouldn't be allowed to play in any International competition. 8 games, 8 lost, scored 0 conceded nearly 50, in a group as shit as ours as well. It's humiliating and wouldn't happen in any other sport if a team or individual was that far below the rest of the field.

 

So let's dump all these teams at the bottom in a pre group to be played next time around, shorten the other groups by one, saves two fixtures a season to create space in the calender while this lot battle it out against each other. The winner can try and qualify next time around and the next most hopeless teams drops into the minor tournament.

 

So it's (as it stands)

 

Liechenstein

Azerbaijan

Cyprus

Andorra

Faroe Islands

Malta

Belarus

San Marino

Wales

 

These lot have their own group while the rest of Europe plays and the winner of that comes back in for 2018 World Cup qualifying.

 

Thoughts?

 

I agree in principle with what youre saying, however im not sure how the minnows will ever get better if they dont have a chance to play bigger nations.

 

I think a few of the nations you mention are perhaps a little better than the calibre of nation that should be in that list. I think Belarus are capable of playing some nice football, and have had talented players in the past, most notably Hleb. Theyre also a pot 5 team, in a 5 team group so its a bit unfair to call them out.

 

I think Cyprus and Azerbaijan have shows improvement too. We had a Cypriot team reach the champions league knockout stages a couple of years ago which seemed unthinkable at one time, so their overall standard has improved somewhat as a nation. And Azerbaijan, if nothing else have become tough to beat under Berti Vogts and are more than capable of taking points off teams like Northern Ireland and Israel in their group, and looking generally solid. You dont see them taking huge mullerings.

 

Nations like Kazakhstan, who we would all consider to be cannon fodder, are improving (albeit very slowly) to the point they can give teams like Sweden a competitive game, and almost nick all 3 points from Ireland.

 

I think perhaps Wales was tongue in cheek?

 

But If there were less 6 team groups, we could weed out the genuine rubbish like San Marino and Andorra. Id agree that those nations need to be part of some kind of prequalifying tournament.

[Dan]

I've wondered for a while if a league system is the answer to be honest although my only gripe would be potentially taking the glamour off the World Cup.

[ozleicester]

Yeh and its time that the FA cup was only played by the top 6 clubs

[Finnegan]

I'm not biting.

[shen]

Would be interesting to compare the standings after qualifying has finished with the tables from 20 years ago and see if there has been development.

[Manwell Pablo]

Yeh and its time that the FA cup was only played by the top 6 clubs

 

Sometimes I wonder if your brain is even connected to your hands or does your computer share a plug socket with your brain and you can't have both turned on at the same time? The FA cup has a Preliminary round, an extra preliminary round, and about 4 qualifying rounds to get rid of the majority of the rubbish before the first round. What a sparkling example. 

 

Back to sensible discussion. It would certainly save time for bigger nations and would give the likes of Andorra and San Marino a chance to actually play some football in something resembling a competitive game instead of putting 11 men behind the ball for 90 minutes and aiming to concede less than 5 goals. As they'd actually stand a chance of winning the odd game they would all improve their ranking as well. 

[Harry - LCFC]

Some sort of pre-group would be good. As long as every country is involved it's still a World Cup.

[Manwell Pablo]

Some sort of pre-group would be good. As long as every country is involved it's still a World Cup.

 

Indeed, I think we're the only confederation that doesn't have any kind of prelim which is odd given we've got four or five teams sitting in the bottom 30 in the world.

[Corky]

While we are about farcical subjects in International football I'd like to raise this one again.

 

Some nations are not fit to be playing the top sides, its annoying, uncompetitive, rips fans off and is generally looked upon as wrong. Also losing 5,6,7-0 every week does not aid development.

 

It was good when Derby were in the Premier League though.

[Guest MattP]

Yeh and its time that the FA cup was only played by the top 6 clubs

 

I didn't think your comments could get more ridiculous than in the animals rights thread but well done for proving me wrong. The fact you have used the tournament that probably has more seperate pre qualifying rounds than any tournament in the World is brilliant.

[Pride_Of_The_Midlands]

So when San Marino get knocked out straight away what do they do for two years when everyone else is playing the main qualifiers?

[Guest MattP]

I agree in principle with what youre saying, however im not sure how the minnows will ever get better if they dont have a chance to play bigger nations.

 

I think a few of the nations you mention are perhaps a little better than the calibre of nation that should be in that list. I think Belarus are capable of playing some nice football, and have had talented players in the past, most notably Hleb. Theyre also a pot 5 team, in a 5 team group so its a bit unfair to call them out.

 

I think Cyprus and Azerbaijan have shows improvement too. We had a Cypriot team reach the champions league knockout stages a couple of years ago which seemed unthinkable at one time, so their overall standard has improved somewhat as a nation. And Azerbaijan, if nothing else have become tough to beat under Berti Vogts and are more than capable of taking points off teams like Northern Ireland and Israel in their group, and looking generally solid. You dont see them taking huge mullerings.

 

Nations like Kazakhstan, who we would all consider to be cannon fodder, are improving (albeit very slowly) to the point they can give teams like Sweden a competitive game, and almost nick all 3 points from Ireland.

 

I think perhaps Wales was tongue in cheek?

 

But If there were less 6 team groups, we could weed out the genuine rubbish like San Marino and Andorra. Id agree that those nations need to be part of some kind of prequalifying tournament.

 

No tongue in cheek at all, I can only use what is in front of me as fact and I can't swop Macedonia for Wales if they are above them. If people think I'm on a wind up over it maybe they should look at their own 'delusions of grandeur' and actually look at the position they are in rather than how good they actually think they are.

 

If this was in place can you imagine how exciting the Wales v Macedonia match would actually be tonight?

 

Fair point on Belarus etc as it would knock a few sides who have had decent results out but that would be a good thing IMO. It would show few teams are below it and it would also give a massive added incentive to teams near the bottom to still be trying their hearts out against teams trying to qualify in the latter stages when a lot of the time a lack of effort os noticably abent.

 

For any nation who habours ambitions of being at major tournaments finishing bottom of a Group isn't acceptable.

[Guest MattP]

So when San Marino get knocked out straight away what do they do for two years when everyone else is playing the main qualifiers?

 

The teams who drop out are playing a round robin as well. It isn't a knockout with the bottom eight.

 

They have a couple of extra fixtures to fit in but they can start them in the summer while other sides are playing in the major tournaments. Better than friendlies and also pits the clubs against teams closer to their own standard.

[filbertway]

I agree with this, after watching the England v San Marino last night (albeit u21's) the game was played at a walking pace. The smaller teams have no intention of attacking, so it's basically a training session of attack v defence. No one really benefits at all, well aside from the smaller teams getting the other teams shirts at the end of the game.

[shen]

Would the top from B-qualifying groups then play bottom from A-qualifying group to establish where either team will play qualifiers the next time around?

[Guest MattP]

Would the top from B-qualifying groups then play bottom from A-qualifying group to establish where either team will play qualifiers the next time around?

 

I've not devised a whole perfect way of doing it yet

 

I'd be bringing one or two up and sending one or two down each major tournament, would probably have to decide the teams 'relegated' in the same way we decide 'best second place' now. A league table of all the bottom sides and the two worst go.

[shen]

I've not devised a whole perfect way of doing it yet

 

I'd be bringing one or two up and sending one or two down each major tournament, would probably have to decide the teams 'relegated' in the same way we decide 'best second place' now. A league table of all the bottom sides and the two worst go.

 

Could result in very harsh relegations what with the nature of the draw seedings etc. And it would also pose the problem that teams from pre-quali group/bottom of previous A-group would not get a chance to qualify until next time the WC comes around. But from a sporting point of view, I don't see the bottom 5-6 teams playing in a pre-quali being harmful. Watching a team like Malta win away at Armenia and nearly snatching points from Bulgaria and Denmark, all teams vying for a second-place, does give some indication that minnows are competing more these days.

[Guest MattP]

Could result in very harsh relegations what with the nature of the draw seedings etc. And it would also pose the problem that teams from pre-quali group/bottom of previous A-group would not get a chance to qualify until next time the WC comes around. But from a sporting point of view, I don't see the bottom 5-6 teams playing in a pre-quali being harmful. Watching a team like Malta win away at Armenia and nearly snatching points from Bulgaria and Denmark, all teams vying for a second-place, does give some indication that minnows are competing more these days.

 

It could be, or it could be the fact a lot of European football nations standard is declining for various reasons. Malta may have improved but I doubt they would have got close to taking a point off the Danish side that had the Laudrups etc in the early 90's.

 

It would result in the odd harsh relegation but again I don't see that as a bad thing, if they are bottom of any group whatever the standard with today's seeding process they aren't going to a major tournament anytime soon.

 

I think we do all agree though it's pointless watching San Marino and the Faroe Islands trying to compete.

[shen]

It could be, or it could be the fact a lot of European football nations standard is declining for various reasons. Malta may have improved but I doubt they would have got close to taking a point off the Danish side that had the Laudrups etc in the early 90's.

 

You could be right, but the end result is that their levels approach each other, which should mean the games are more competitive now.

If you do start with pre-quali groups, then why not also qualify elite teams per default? Italy haven't lost a qualifier since 1999 (here's hoping the trend will be bucked tonight!) so why bother making them go through qualifiers? Let them automatically qualify and leave the rest to fight for the last few available spots.

 

For the record, some teams are absolutely gash like San Marino and Andorra. At least the Faroes are prone to the odd good result/close game against decent sides.

[Guest MattP]

You could be right, but the end result is that their levels approach each other, which should mean the games are more competitive now.

If you do start with pre-quali groups, then why not also qualify elite teams per default? Italy haven't lost a qualifier since 1999 (here's hoping the trend will be bucked tonight!) so why bother making them go through qualifiers? Let them automatically qualify and leave the rest to fight for the last few available spots.

 

For the record, some teams are absolutely gash like San Marino and Andorra. At least the Faroes are prone to the odd good result/close game against decent sides.

 

I don't think teams would want to have free qualification, playing no competitive games wouldn't do a lot of sides much good. Plus when do you decide that now they aren't that good they have to start going through the process again.

 

It's a tough one, really is.

[Finnegan]

I think if you have the world's most expensive (thus objectively best) player in your team you should qualify automatically. The tournament needs Bale.

[Maybes]

Are brown envelopes to be exchanged?

[Guest MattP]

I think if you have the world's most expensive (thus objectively best) player in your team you should qualify automatically. The tournament needs Bale.

 

He's Spanish isn't he?

 

[Finnegan]

lol !!