The Smiths

[The Bear]

3 hours ago, purpleronnie said:

Funny you say that because its pretty much a given these days that most smiths fans prefer HOH to the debut, based on the production of the two Lp's.

I quite like the slightly raw and echoey production of the debut. Certainly on stuff Reel Around The Fountain, You've Got Everything Now, and The Hand That Rocks The Cradle. 

 

It's just some of the session tracks on HOH I have issues with. 

[Bellend Sebastian]

6 hours ago, The Bear said:

In terms of variety and production value then Louder Than Bombs is by far the best for newcomers. 

 

Hatful Of Hollow's issue for me is you get live session versions which aren't a patch on the original versions. A few exceptions are the vastly superior This Charming Man and stuff that isn't on other albums like Handsome Devil. 

I MUCH prefer the session versions of What Difference Does it Make? and Back To the Old House on HOH.

 

They should release all the session stuff on something. I've got the versions of William it was Really Nothing and Nowhere Fast on an old CD single of Last Night... but the version of Half a Person I don't think has ever been on anything other than the radio. It's on YouTube, where of course it sounds shite

 

 

[The Bear]

8 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

I MUCH prefer the session versions of What Difference Does it Make? and Back To the Old House on HOH.

Yeah not for me. In particular You've Got Everything Now is dreadful, undertempo and muddy sounding. 

[Bellend Sebastian]

10 minutes ago, The Bear said:

Yeah not for me. In particular You've Got Everything Now is dreadful, undertempo and muddy sounding. 

I'm a bit underwhelmed by either version if I'm honest. I mean, it's still a good track in the grand scheme of things but not amongst their best for me

[Bellend Sebastian]

I've just been playing Cemet(e)ry Gates on the old guitar and it's a wonderful example of what made The Smiths so ace.

 

It's a piece of piss to play if someone shows you how and you can tell that he probably wrote the basic thing in about ten minutes, but it just isn't like anybody else. I cannot come up with songs to save my life so I'm doubly impressed when someone seems to just be able to let this stuff flow out of them.

 

I think how the vocal follows the music is quite unusual as well. Old Moz cops a lot of flak these days, but he is good at what he does 

[Dr Marco]

 

[MaidstoneFox]

On 06/11/2024 at 19:57, Bellend Sebastian said:

I've just been playing Cemet(e)ry Gates on the old guitar and it's a wonderful example of what made The Smiths so ace.

 

It's a piece of piss to play if someone shows you how and you can tell that he probably wrote the basic thing in about ten minutes, but it just isn't like anybody else. I cannot come up with songs to save my life so I'm doubly impressed when someone seems to just be able to let this stuff flow out of them.

 

I think how the vocal follows the music is quite unusual as well. Old Moz cops a lot of flak these days, but he is good at what he does 

Certainly stands the test of time and from their greatest album in my opinion. Though for me, Morrissey's vocals grate a bit more than they used to, though in part due perhaps to the contemporary impact of an emphasis on vocals, whereas The Smiths came out of a post-punk world, emphasizing that anyone could form a band, regardless of musical ability.

 

The Queen is Dead will be 40 years old next year and I remember buying the vinyl LP from Tower records in Piccadilly Circus and just thinking the whole package - music and vinyl sleeve - was just this remarkable, precious work of art. Played it to death, bought the t-shirt.

[SK3Blue]

Morrissey has put just about everything he has rights to with The Smiths up for sale, I was going to offer half a bag of dry roasted for Golden Lights then I remembered it was a cover. 

[The Bear]

43 minutes ago, SK3Blue said:

Morrissey has put just about everything he has rights to with The Smiths up for sale, I was going to offer half a bag of dry roasted for Golden Lights then I remembered it was a cover. 

It's also shite!

 

I'd pay £50 for Oscillate Wildly. It's an underappreciated masterpiece. 

Edited 3 September 2025 by The Bear

[MaidstoneFox]

4 hours ago, The Bear said:

It's also shite!

 

I'd pay £50 for Oscillate Wildly. It's an underappreciated masterpiece. 

Does he have rights to that as it's an instrumental and Marr wrote it?

[The Bear]

6 hours ago, MaidstoneFox said:

Does he have rights to that as it's an instrumental and Marr wrote it?

I can't remember but I think all Smiths original material was listed as Morrissey/Marr on the writing credits. 

[Mike Oxlong]

I met Morrissey backstage at their Leicester Uni gig in 1984. 

 

He still talks about it. 

[Dr Marco]

He really is a bell...d

 

no respect for Andy Rourke

[SK3Blue]

On 04/09/2025 at 18:39, Dr Marco said:

He really is a bell...d

 

no respect for Andy Rourke

Agree, it was disgraceful to mention Andy. 
 

I’ve met both Marr and Morrissey, and even in that brief 3 minute chat with Morrissey, you can just tell he’s got one in him, comes over as a nice enough guy but then the true colours start to show. 
 

Johnny is a lovely guy, he must sit and read Morrissey’s posts and think ‘Nurse, he’s got out of bed again and grabbed his phone’

[purpleronnie]

5 hours ago, SK3Blue said:

Agree, it was disgraceful to mention Andy. 
 

I’ve met both Marr and Morrissey, and even in that brief 3 minute chat with Morrissey, you can just tell he’s got one in him, comes over as a nice enough guy but then the true colours start to show. 
 

Johnny is a lovely guy, he must sit and read Morrissey’s posts and think ‘Nurse, he’s got out of bed again and grabbed his phone’

What did he say?

[SK3Blue]

37 minutes ago, purpleronnie said:

What did he say?

Nothing of note it was just the self importance that came over with him. 

 

I spoke to Johnny about Football and a couple of bands, whereas Morrissey, you couldn’t have that same conversation.
 

He’s aloof, delusions of grandeur but a hint of shyness at times, you could just tell if you managed a longer conversation and got onto the subject of The Smiths for example it wouldn’t take long for something spiteful to come out. He’s just a guy that thinks he’s hard done by with everything. 

[purpleronnie]

40 minutes ago, SK3Blue said:

Nothing of note it was just the self importance that came over with him. 

 

I spoke to Johnny about Football and a couple of bands, whereas Morrissey, you couldn’t have that same conversation.
 

He’s aloof, delusions of grandeur but a hint of shyness at times, you could just tell if you managed a longer conversation and got onto the subject of The Smiths for example it wouldn’t take long for something spiteful to come out. He’s just a guy that thinks he’s hard done by with everything. 

Sorry I didn't mean the conversation you had, I was referring to you saying ', it was disgraceful to mention Andy'

[SK3Blue]

25 minutes ago, purpleronnie said:

Sorry I didn't mean the conversation you had, I was referring to you saying ', it was disgraceful to mention Andy'

Not sure why he had to mention Andy, not like he can defend himself. 

[Blueman1967]

47 minutes ago, SK3Blue said:

Not sure why he had to mention Andy, not like he can defend himself. 

A bit silly all this, they were a great band, and he want a reunion, it was Marr that said no.

[The Bear]

37 minutes ago, Blueman1967 said:

A bit silly all this, they were a great band, and he want a reunion, it was Marr that said no.

Well there was of course the high court case where Joyce (and Rourke initially) tried to claim equal credit and royalties for the entire back catalogue. The split was previously 40:40:10:10 percentage wise. Joyce won and got £1m back payments and 25% of all future earnings. Rourke settled at the beginning of the case for the paltry sum of £83k and 10% (the percentage which he already got any way). 

 

They should have got 25% initially IMO as they each wrote their parts for the songs. Rourke's contribution in particular (musically) was just as much as Morrissey's IMO. His bass lines were almost like counter vocal melodies at times. It's a shame he ended up the one getting less than everyone else due to his early settlement. 

 

The More You Ignore Me was a Morrissey song which had lyrics about that case  in particular and his feelings towards Joyce. 

 

"I bear more grudges, than lonely high court judges". 

[SK3Blue]

1 hour ago, The Bear said:

Well there was of course the high court case where Joyce (and Rourke initially) tried to claim equal credit and royalties for the entire back catalogue. The split was previously 40:40:10:10 percentage wise. Joyce won and got £1m back payments and 25% of all future earnings. Rourke settled at the beginning of the case for the paltry sum of £83k and 10% (the percentage which he already got any way). 

 

They should have got 25% initially IMO as they each wrote their parts for the songs. Rourke's contribution in particular (musically) was just as much as Morrissey's IMO. His bass lines were almost like counter vocal melodies at times. It's a shame he ended up the one getting less than everyone else due to his early settlement. 

 

The More You Ignore Me was a Morrissey song which had lyrics about that case  in particular and his feelings towards Joyce. 

 

"I bear more grudges, than lonely high court judges". 

Sorrow will come in the end, was also a track about the court case, an ‘extra track’ on the original Maladjusted album release. 
 

 

[Fox92]

It's a shame when you see genuine friendships, not just bands, end up like this. 

 

Johnny Marr must look at the news and roll his eyes nowadays. 

 

Morrissey is proper weird. Yet again talks as if the rest are out to get him. Disassociating from those who "wish him "ill-will and destruction". I think he self destructed more than anything else.

[SK3Blue]

Have seen this before but don’t recall seeing Miserable Lie and Morrissey going off stage in the original footage. 
 

 

[Blueman1967]

The Smiths at the Rockpalast 1984 is a good show to watch

 

 

 

[MaidstoneFox]

Mike Joyce has a book out on 6th November: "The Drums".