Pisa tests.

[ADK]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-25187997

 

In summary:

 

The UK ranked 26th in global tests of 15 year olds.

 

Amongst the UK, the Welsh were significantly more thick than the rest of the UK while the Scottish were a little bit smarter.

 

Asian countries dominated the top of the list although China only enters certain cities.

 

Does this mean our kids are thick, teachers are completely incompetent and our society decadent and lazy? Or is it simply a case of us not taking these tests particularly seriously compared to other countries?

[AoWW]

AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

That's all. Just wanted to vent!

 

[Guest MattP]

Probably a combination of what is mentioned.

 

Standards are declining and we have been dropping down these tables for years now. One glance at a Facebook wall and it appears the youth are getting thicker.

 

In the East it's cool to be clever and educated, here, Europe and the US it isn't. That's probably half the problem.

[purpleronnie]

Probably a combination of what is mentioned.

 

Standards are declining and we have been dropping down these tables for years now. One glance at a Facebook wall and it appears the youth are getting thicker.

 

In the East it's cool to be clever and educated, here, Europe and the US it isn't. That's probably half the problem.

Plus in the past kids would aspire to be doctors or astronauts, now they want to become reality TV stars...you don't need A levels for that.

[Guest MattP]

Plus in the past kids would aspire to be doctors or astronauts, now they want to become reality TV stars...you don't need A levels for that.

 

True.

 

My 12 year old cousin the other week said "get rich or die tryin" - I honestly didn't know what to say to it.

[ADK]

I think part of the problem is a lot of businesses make an awful lot of money out of exploiting peoples lack of education. I don't think our children or teachers are lazy but I do think as a society we are increasingly decadent.

[purpleronnie]

True.

 

My 12 year old cousin the other week said "get rich or die tryin" - I honestly didn't know what to say to it.

 Shouldn't laugh but I guess that's the 'reality' for some.

[Captain...]

Anyone brave enought to try the test themselves?

 

http://www.oecd.org/pisa/test/

 

Ah lies, damn lies and statistics.

 

I'm pretty sure the results for China would be different if they took them as a country and not as Shanghai, Hong Kong, Taiwan and Macau a little misleading, that and the fact that at least 4 of the "countries" above us are different parts of China, and I wouldn't put it past them to stack the candidates, it really isn't as bad as it looks.

 

I'm not saying that we don't have issues with education, but when you see Sweden with one of the highest living standards in the world in 36th, and Shanghai at the top with it's questionable human rights and 11 hour school days, then maybe there is more to life than Maths. 

[Guest MattP]

I think part of the problem is a lot of businesses make an awful lot of money out of exploiting peoples lack of education. I don't think our children or teachers are lazy but I do think as a society we are increasingly decadent.

 

The politician/business owners/rulers want the people as stupid as possible, no doubt about that. The thicker we are the more they can get away with.

 

This is why they are happy to have people sat on the dole while even more desperate people come in to do the work for a lower wage.

 

Those glued to the X Factor on a Saturday night won't be concerned when an MP had been caught lying, cheating and stealing off the taxpayer.

[Guest MattP]

Anyone brave enought to try the test themselves?

 

http://www.oecd.org/pisa/test/

 

Ah lies, damn lies and statistics.

 

I'll have a go later.

 

It's quite painful to read only 92% of the UK got that first question correct though, I mean how can you actually get it wrong unless you are a complete and utter retard? There is no hope for that 8%.

[Guest MattP]

And only just over 70% got Question Two? Jesus. This is worse than even I thought.

[ADK]

I did the maths sample test and it was rather easy. I'm sure I'd have got them all at the age of 15.

[Guest MattP]

6/6 btw.

 

That was very easy. I'm surprised at the percentages struggling with certain questions.

[Finnaldo]

Probably a combination of what is mentioned.

Standards are declining and we have been dropping down these tables for years now. One glance at a Facebook wall and it appears the youth are getting thicker.

In the East it's cool to be clever and educated, here, Europe and the US it isn't. That's probably half the problem.

Disagree.

Although we have our fairshare of bellends and future benefit scroungers, a majority of the 'cool' people in Year 10 and 11 at my school were in the top classes, and I go John Cleveland College. I have no idea why test results are so low but being popular has nothing to do with it, possibly even boosting it.

What do you mean by Facebook by the way? Is that aimed at the vocabulary or the content of the posts?

[Guest MattP]

Disagree.

Although we have our fairshare of bellends and future benefit scroungers, a majority of the 'cool' people in Year 10 and 11 at my school were in the top classes, and I go John Cleveland College. I have no idea why test results are so low but being popular has nothing to do with it, possibly even boosting it.

What do you mean by Facebook by the way? Is that aimed at the vocabulary or the content of the posts?

 

Yes, it's rare I see one that isn't littered with errors.

 

Maybe that's a reflection on the company I keep mind.

[leicsmac]

There's a few reasons for this:

 

- We've actually attained the same scores on these tests for the last few times they've been done, it's just that other countries have been catching up and getting better. Standards haven't gotten better, but they've not gotten worse either. That said, we should be aiming to improve

 

- As has been said, having four specific cities in China rather than China as a whole is a bit misleading

 

- We don't take this test seriously compared to other countries - some of them actually study specifically for it.

 

- Our society does not value scientists, engineers, artists, writers etc. They're treated as at best uninteresting, at worst a waste of time. Instead we venerate popular cultural icons - sportsmen, actors, musicians, reality TV stars etc, and we always have. We've always been a 'arty' country rather than a technical one, where knowledge of the arts gets you high in society with the money and actual practical STEM knowledge get you working in a shed in the garden with no support.

 

- The Far East normally excel at this kind of test, but they are trained to pass tests by rote at the expense of nearly all creative and innovative thought, as well as their own happiness (check where the least happy students in the world are). This one-size-fits-all approach gets you results through sheer memorisation, but they can't do practically any kind of critical thinking and the stress has its drawbacks, as well as many students either going nuts or taking their own lives from stress/disappointment at bad results.

 

- Constant interference from politicians of all parties with little knowledge in the topic doesn't really help either.

[marko]

6/6

 

Quite frightening when you look at the percentages that get to each level.

[Guest MattP]

This can't actually be real?

 

Surely 45% of our nation's 15 years olds aren't failing to answer that 1.783 is lower than 1.79?

[ADK]

It all depends how it's done.

 

They might have asked harder questions for each level but chose those examples because you don't need a calculator

 

Those were all simple logic questions that didn't need knowledge of more complicated mathematics. I'm not sure I'd be able to remember the cosine rule or the general formula for a quadratic equation though those are on the GCSE.

 

On the face of it 3% for the last question seems too low.

[Finnaldo]

Yes, it's rare I see one that isn't littered with errors.

Maybe that's a reflection on the company I keep mind.

I know what you mean, I hate it when people shorten words, makes them look illiterate. Although again I think it's down to people just being lazy, most of the culprits aren't as illiterate as they make themselves look.

If there's one thing they could improve though, it's common sense. People my age are so gullible and defensive it's unbelievable. Saying that there's those who are so misinformed on religion and culture it makes them look like neanderthals.

[The Doctor]

I know what you mean, I hate it when people shorten words, makes them look illiterate. Although again I think it's down to people just being lazy, most of the culprits aren't as illiterate as they make themselves look.

If there's one thing they could improve though, it's common sense. People my age are so gullible and defensive it's unbelievable. Saying that there's those who are so misinformed on religion and culture it makes them look like neanderthals.

 

You know you could just say religious people in place of that 

 

 

(How long before El Empty bites at that?)

[pSinatra]

There was something on BBC Breakfast News relating to this.  They were interviewing kids in South Korea who said that they found the test very easy.  They also said that there are more & more children going to school & then going for extra tuition until 10 o'clock at night.  Parents are so committed to their children being able to compete in the workplace that the child's all-round welfare is being compromised.  South Korea also has the highest rate of suicide in the developed world.

 

Under those conditions, I don't think the UK is ever going to match countries like South Korea & I wouldn't ever want us to.

[Saxondale]

It's a societal problem I'm afraid.

 

Everything revolves around ensuring kids are constantly entertained, fed and comfortable and discipline is seen as old-skool. Children have a massive sense of self-worth, an overwhelming sense of entitlement and, as a consequence, no respect for authority.

 

In the classroom, a teacher has to deal with around thirty of the disgusting little brats. How the fvck are they expected to teach a bunch of eight-year-olds about fractions or punctuation when half the rest of the class are sexting on their iPhones, shouting and fighting with other kids. When the teacher asks them to stop, they laugh in their faces.

 

They punch and kick teachers when they're having a strop; they swear; they refuse to do work if they're bored or they find it too difficult.

 

Take make it all worse, the teacher sets them homework and the next day gets a note from their parent saying 'Tyler won't be doing this homework because I don't think it's suitable'. That's right - some dreg of a human with six kids from seven different fathers, who couldn't find the UK on a map, is telling somebody with a teaching degree and years experience how to teach their foul, stupid little child.

 

That, my friends, is the problem in a nutshell. 

[leicsmac]

There was something on BBC Breakfast News relating to this.  They were interviewing kids in South Korea who said that they found the test very easy.  They also said that there are more & more children going to school & then going for extra tuition until 10 o'clock at night.  Parents are so committed to their children being able to compete in the workplace that the child's all-round welfare is being compromised.  South Korea also has the highest rate of suicide in the developed world.

 

Under those conditions, I don't think the UK is ever going to match countries like South Korea & I wouldn't ever want us to.

 

Yup. I finish work at 10pm over here because that's when the lessons end. Some hagwons (cram schools) stay open even later. These kids are at school from 8.30am to 10pm pretty much every day, and pretty much every kid from the age of 8-18 goes to at least one hagwon after they've been to their state schools during the day. As I said before, it's all about rote memorisation to pass tests here - it works but at the expense of any kind of creative thought and (as you said) a pretty big youth suicide rate.

 

Ask a Korean student to write down some facts or solve a math problem, they're brilliant. Ask them to use their own thoughts to write down an essay in a format that's not been laid out for them...not so good.

[ozleicester]

An education system designed to improve averages and increase the number of ok students, leads to a loss at the top end.

 

Not everyone should be aiming for university and those with exceptional talents should be helped to ensure they and the country can make the best use of their abilities.