Webbo Posted 6 February 2014 Posted 6 February 2014 No, sorry, I've obviously not expressed myself very clearly: I was trying to say that the fact that he wouldn't say this against Muslims would not in itself indicate a reluctance to be critical of Islam. In answer to your question: No, I don't agree in the slightest that all Christians are Tories; I would doubt if even most are. However, I do believe most Tories are Christian, which is what I suspect Ken was trying to say. Ken was saying that all christians are hypocrites. Does that counts as religious discrimination? Would you defend him if he'd said that against muslims?
Guest MattP Posted 6 February 2014 Posted 6 February 2014 However, I do believe most Tories are Christian, which is what I suspect Ken was trying to say. Surely given the demographics of the country so would most Labour Supporters as well? Ken comments were bigoted and had he said that about another religion he could even have had his collar felt for it.
Buce Posted 6 February 2014 Posted 6 February 2014 Buce, you are falling into the trap of thinking most people actually know what they are voting for. No, in actual fact I think we've finally found something we can agree on.
Buce Posted 6 February 2014 Posted 6 February 2014 Surely given the demographics of the country so would most Labour Supporters as well? Ken comments were bigoted and had he said that about another religion he could even have had his collar felt for it. I guess it depends how you define Christian. If you mean someone who is nominally C of E, you would probably be right. If you mean a regular church goer, I'd say not.
Webbo Posted 6 February 2014 Posted 6 February 2014 Ken was saying that all christians are hypocrites. Does that counts as religious discrimination? Would you defend him if he'd said that against muslims? Doesn't look like I'm going to get a reply.
Vlad the Fox Posted 6 February 2014 Posted 6 February 2014 Quite possibly she is getting help now, I don't know much about her, but I'm not going to assume she's a muff diver because she has short hair and looks like she could kick my ass, I reckon she would be a good shag too, I think I might actually fancy her a bit, and you know that if you got a blow job she would definitely swallow. You could double date with Mack and Claire Balding.
Captain... Posted 6 February 2014 Posted 6 February 2014 You could double date with Mack and Claire Balding. Claire Balding, not fvcking likely, I'm not gay.
Guest MattP Posted 6 February 2014 Posted 6 February 2014 I guess it depends how you define Christian. If you mean someone who is nominally C of E, you would probably be right. If you mean a regular church goer, I'd say not. How we define Christian appears to be to suit the point we'd like to make then. I'm say churchgoers I know were more likely to be Liberal minded than Tory. But I wouldn't know what the results would be across the UK.
Vlad the Fox Posted 6 February 2014 Posted 6 February 2014 Claire Balding, not fvcking likely, I'm not gay.
Buce Posted 6 February 2014 Posted 6 February 2014 Ken was saying that all christians are hypocrites. Does that counts as religious discrimination? Would you defend him if he'd said that against muslims?He didn't actually say that, in fairness: he said, "all church goers are right wingers". Equally inaccurate, I agree, but hardly a slur on all Christians.From what I have seen of his posts, I've seen nothing to suggest he would shy away from being equally critical of Islam if he felt it was warranted. I was merely pointing out that in this particular case it would be erroneous to say that Muslims are right wing voters, so it couldn't be taken as religious bias. For the record, I wasn't defending him for what he said about church goers; not only was it inaccurate but also offensive - being accused of being a right winger is akin to being accused of being a paedophile.
Webbo Posted 6 February 2014 Posted 6 February 2014 He didn't actually say that, in fairness: he said, "all church goers are right wingers". Equally inaccurate, I agree, but hardly a slur on all Christians. From what I have seen of his posts, I've seen nothing to suggest he would shy away from being equally critical of Islam if he felt it was warranted. I was merely pointing out that in this particular case it would be erroneous to say that Muslims are right wing voters, so it couldn't be taken as religious bias. Churchgoers tend to be christian. Would you say that generally muslims, or mosque goers if you prefer, are not right wing?
Buce Posted 6 February 2014 Posted 6 February 2014 Churchgoers tend to be christian. Would you say that generally muslims, or mosque goers if you prefer, are not right wing? In the context of British politics, no, they are not right wing.I have insufficient knowledge of the wider muslim world to speculate. All church goers are christian is not the same as all christians are church goers.
Webbo Posted 6 February 2014 Posted 6 February 2014 In the context of British politics, no, they are not right wing. I have insufficient knowledge of the wider muslim world to speculate. Well just going on what we see on the TV would you say that muslims are in favour of gay and women's rights?
Buce Posted 6 February 2014 Posted 6 February 2014 Well just going on what we see on the TV would you say that muslims are in favour of gay and women's rights? I would never dream of basing my opinion of anything by going on what I see on tv.
Guest MattP Posted 6 February 2014 Posted 6 February 2014 I would never dream of basing my opinion of anything by going on what I see on tv. Ok then in your general experience of working with Muslims, being around them etc would you say they are in favour of gays and womens rights? Btw, what you see on TV of the Islamic World isn't a myth, I've been there.
Webbo Posted 6 February 2014 Posted 6 February 2014 I would never dream of basing my opinion of anything by going on what I see on tv. Good cop out.
Buce Posted 6 February 2014 Posted 6 February 2014 Ok then in your general experience of working with Muslims, being around them etc would you say they are in favour of gays and womens rights? Btw, what you see on TV of the Islamic World isn't a myth, I've been there. Based on my albeit limited experience, I would say that Muslims are overwhelmingly against gay rights. Womens' rights? The British muslims that I know are surprisingly liberal in that regard, though how representative of British muslims that is, I don't know. I have also travelled fairly extensively in muslim countries, and saw little evidence of any belief in womens' rights, though I didn't get to ask any women. Is this of any relevance? I'm all in favour of discussion but I'm trying to earn a living.
Guest MattP Posted 6 February 2014 Posted 6 February 2014 Based on my albeit limited experience, I would say that Muslims are overwhelmingly against gay rights. Womens' rights? The British muslims that I know are surprisingly liberal in that regard, though how representative of British muslims that is, I don't know. I have also travelled fairly extensively in muslim countries, and saw little evidence of any belief in womens' rights, though I didn't get to ask any women. Is this of any relevance? I'm all in favour of discussion but I'm trying to earn a living. Think we can both agree on all of that.
Rincewind Posted 6 February 2014 Posted 6 February 2014 http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/mentally-ill-woman-sheila-holt-rochdale-6553258 Atos at its best For those without medical qualifications and yes I had to look it up. Are Atos staff qualified to diagnose. I'm not and i guess 99% of the posters on here are not. bipolar affective disorder Off to do some more research now/
Guest MattP Posted 6 February 2014 Posted 6 February 2014 http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/mentally-ill-woman-sheila-holt-rochdale-6553258 Atos at its best Are we back believing the mainstream media now then? Sheila Holt, 47, was sectioned under the Mental Health Act in December after struggling to cope with the government’s controversial new back-to-work scheme. Her family claim she became terrified and suffered a breakdown after her benefits were withdrawn. Mr Danczuk said Sheila, who is bipolar, hasn't worked in almost 30 years. What a mess, people are dropping into comas at the thought of having to work, 30 years off for Bipolar? I'm getting that assessment done tomorrow.
Buce Posted 6 February 2014 Posted 6 February 2014 Doesn't look like I'm going to get a reply. You posted a question at 3.41, and you're whining because I haven't replied within 12 mins? Sorry, I have a life outside of FT.
Webbo Posted 6 February 2014 Posted 6 February 2014 You posted a question at 3.41, and you're whining because I haven't replied within 12 mins? Sorry, I have a life outside of FT. Good for you.
The People's Hero Posted 6 February 2014 Posted 6 February 2014 Ken, which argument are you sticking to now? Can you feed your family a balanced diet for ten pounds a week? Or can shirkers only afford to eat or heat? I've lost track. It can't be both!
The People's Hero Posted 6 February 2014 Posted 6 February 2014 Sorry, I have a life outside of FT. You're really not going to fit in here. Besides, I believe it's spelt bóöcê
Rincewind Posted 6 February 2014 Posted 6 February 2014 Ken, which argument are you sticking to now? Can you feed your family a balanced diet for ten pounds a week? Or can low paid workers only afford to eat or heat? I've lost track. It can't be both! fixed
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