Captain... Posted 10 February 2014 Posted 10 February 2014 Tax credits exist because the minimum wage isn't a living wage due to prices increasing at a much higher rate than inflation. Maybe tax credits aren't the best way of subsidising low wages but do you think raising the minimum wage will have the desired impact? Yes those in low paid work will be paid more, but it will be more expensive for employers to take people on. They will have a budget for wages, and increasing the minimum wage will most likely mean employing fewer people at the lower end, or putting up prices. If prices start going up then increasing the minimum wage will have 0 effect as the cost of living goes up. Ideally the shortfall would be made up by a reduction in wages by those at the top of the business, but I just can't see that happening. Nothing I have said disagrees with you, I am not advocating tax credits, I'm just saying that the need is still there as minimum wage is not currently a living wage. You've completely ignored my actual question. Do you think that increasing the minimum wage will solve the problem? Or just serve to increase unemployment or drive up prices as labour costs in increase? This is what annoys me about this place, I have had 2 people reply to the above, and nobody has actually answered my question. Do people really think increasing the minimum wage is a good idea? To me it is a perfectly valid question, and my reasoning makes sense to me, but maybe I have missed something. This is not a dig at the government and not trying to use it to score political points, as it was originally Labour that introduced it. I just really can't see how this will help and is just going to put extra pressure on small and struggling businesses, and drive up prices as costs increase.
Strokes Posted 10 February 2014 Posted 10 February 2014 This is what annoys me about this place, I have had 2 people reply to the above, and nobody has actually answered my question. Do people really think increasing the minimum wage is a good idea? To me it is a perfectly valid question, and my reasoning makes sense to me, but maybe I have missed something. This is not a dig at the government and not trying to use it to score political points, as it was originally Labour that introduced it. I just really can't see how this will help and is just going to put extra pressure on small and struggling businesses, and drive up prices as costs increase.Thats all the minimum wage has ever done, it also forces skilled workers perilously close to unskilled workers in terms of pay parity. That is a terrible thing, for instance the average class 2 truck driver earns £7.65 per hour, it costs over a thousand pounds to get the licence if you pass first time, why bother?
MooseBreath Posted 10 February 2014 Author Posted 10 February 2014 It's not as if they're putting it up to £20 per hour. It has been rising below inflation for years. The proposed increase will just bring it into line. I think a well performing economy should be able to support such increases without too many ill effects. Infact for me, increased wages for hard working people is the whole point of focussing on having a strong economy. The rise is a statement of intent from the tories that economic improvement will be felt in the pockets of ordinary people. Quite when the tories became the socialists and the lefties the pro-big business profits brigade I have no idea
ADK Posted 10 February 2014 Posted 10 February 2014 It's just a popularist move. There is more of an argument for having no minimum wage.
Captain... Posted 10 February 2014 Posted 10 February 2014 It's just a popularist move. There is more of an argument for having no minimum wage. I wouldn't say no minimum wage because then we will get increased exploitation of migrant workers who will work for less.
ADK Posted 10 February 2014 Posted 10 February 2014 I wouldn't say no minimum wage because then we will get increased exploitation of migrant workers who will work for less. Well they won't come here after a while, they'll go to some other European country where they get paid more or they will stay in their own country. Surely if they come here voluntarily they are hardly being exploited.
Captain... Posted 10 February 2014 Posted 10 February 2014 Well they won't come here after a while, they'll go to some other European country where they get paid more or they will stay in their own country. Surely if they come here voluntarily they are hardly being exploited. Maybe I should have said, exploit migrant worker's willingness to work for less than someone in the UK and, to take us back on topic, specifically someone on benefits.
Captain... Posted 10 February 2014 Posted 10 February 2014 Nobody is really being exploited though. No, but the lack of regulations over minimum wage would be exploited. This is also annoys me on here, my point is quite clear, but we are arguing over semantics because I didn't word it perfectly.
Rincewind Posted 10 February 2014 Posted 10 February 2014 See the following story by Tariq Tahir published in The Metro: Millions will miss out on benefiting from the economic recovery unless they are paid a living wage, an independent commission has warned. http://metro.co.uk/2014/02/10/blight-of-low-pay-leaves-5million-in-poverty-trap-4297343/
Strokes Posted 10 February 2014 Posted 10 February 2014 No, but the lack of regulations over minimum wage would be exploited. This is also annoys me on here, my point is quite clear, but we are arguing over semantics because I didn't word it perfectly. You're a bit sensitive today, maybe you should go for a lie down.
Jon the Hat Posted 10 February 2014 Posted 10 February 2014 See the following story by Tariq Tahir published in The Metro: Millions will miss out on benefiting from the economic recovery unless they are paid a living wage, an independent commission has warned. http://metro.co.uk/2014/02/10/blight-of-low-pay-leaves-5million-in-poverty-trap-4297343/ Wages will go up. Minimum wage will certainly go up.
Captain... Posted 10 February 2014 Posted 10 February 2014 Wages will go up. Minimum wage will certainly go up. And how are struggling businesses going to make up the difference for the increased outlay on labour?
Merging Cultures Posted 10 February 2014 Posted 10 February 2014 I think we need an economics 101 thread...
MooseBreath Posted 10 February 2014 Author Posted 10 February 2014 I think we need an economics 101 thread... Start with a basic common sense and logic thread before you start going crazy.
Merging Cultures Posted 10 February 2014 Posted 10 February 2014 Start with a basic common sense and logic thread before you start going crazy. I think economics explains a lot of common sense stuff... Starting with.. Something you'd like is expensive, you want less of it (except football tickets, drugs etc) Something you'd like is cheap, you want more of it Then we can get into the Phillips curve.
Jon the Hat Posted 10 February 2014 Posted 10 February 2014 And how are struggling businesses going to make up the difference for the increased outlay on labour? They will put their prices up of course. Their competitors will mostly do the same. Those able to absorb the cost will do best of course.
leicsmac Posted 10 February 2014 Posted 10 February 2014 Economics today is far more a faith than an exact science, I reckon.
Merging Cultures Posted 10 February 2014 Posted 10 February 2014 Economics today is far more a faith than an exact science, I reckon. Economics is very dynamic. As more data comes out theories can be verified or disproved and new theories will be created. But the study of econometrics with scientific probabilities does help to explain causality.
leicsmac Posted 10 February 2014 Posted 10 February 2014 Economics is very dynamic. As more data comes out theories can be verified or disproved and new theories will be created. But the study of econometrics with scientific probabilities does help to explain causality. Thanks for that. Will this information eventually result in a more stable economic environment, or is it going to keep bouncing around?
Captain... Posted 10 February 2014 Posted 10 February 2014 They will put their prices up of course. Their competitors will mostly do the same. Those able to absorb the cost will do best of course. So won't this then increase the cost of living and mostly negate the benefit of increasing the minimum wage?
Merging Cultures Posted 10 February 2014 Posted 10 February 2014 Thanks for that. Will this information eventually result in a more stable economic environment, or is it going to keep bouncing around? Hopefully someone will understand what is going on and apply some common sense to the situation
Rincewind Posted 10 February 2014 Posted 10 February 2014 Just found this. Why would Biffa lie? http://www.biffa.co.uk/about-biffa/media-centre/current-news/rough-sleepers-putting-lives-at-risk.html
MooseBreath Posted 10 February 2014 Author Posted 10 February 2014 Just found this. Why would Biffa lie? http://www.biffa.co.uk/about-biffa/media-centre/current-news/rough-sleepers-putting-lives-at-risk.html 16% of people found sleeping in bins only discovered when they are tipped out lol sorry but that's a funny image
DennisNedry Posted 10 February 2014 Posted 10 February 2014 16% of people found sleeping in bins only discovered when they are tipped out lol sorry but that's a funny image People having to sleep in bins couldn't really be less funny to be honest.
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