Benefits Street

[Vacamion]

But it is not the people saying that they cannot work, it has generally been people assessed and signed off by doctors as not being fit to work, being on disability for years, then all of a sudden being told that they have to go back to work. There have been cases of suicide after receiving the ATOS verdict.

 

People physically able to work, aren't always mentally strong enough to cope with work, imagine you have ended up seriously depressed due to your job, you get signed off by your doctor, because it was detrimental to your mental well being. A few years later you get ATOS telling you you have to find a job and your benefits are being stopped. That could cause the on set of serious depression, and has in at least oen case I've seen led to someone taking their life.

 

I would also like to know what support and help is offered to these people in getting a job, the impression is that ATOS declare you fit, your benefits get stopped and you have to find a job, surely there should be some sort of back to work program, if people have been off for a while they may not be in a position to find a job, and may require integrating back into the work place slowly. Maybe that is just my wooly liberal thinking.

 

 

Many has been the 5am start or long drive when I think I might be struggling to keep on top of my work. Work requires effort. Work requires commitment.  You have to re-mould your life around it.  It's not always pleasant and it doesn't always feel do-able. That's the way of the world, harsh though it is.

 

If you let one person who says "I don't feel mentally ready to work" not work and have the State support them, you have to let everyone who pleads this be treated the same way.

 

The country can't afford it.

[Captain...]

Many has been the 5am start or long drive when I think I might be struggling to keep on top of my work. Work requires effort. Work requires commitment.  You have to re-mould your life around it.  It's not always pleasant and it doesn't always feel do-able. That's the way of the world, harsh though it is.

 

If you let one person who says "I don't feel mentally ready to work" not work and have the State support them, you have to let everyone who pleads this be treated the same way.

 

The country can't afford it.

 

I'm not saying the opposite, and I can quite readily believe that many people capable of working have been signed off sick, when in reality they needed a change of jobs. My response in more in how to deal with these people that have been out of work for years, you can't just throw them back into full time employment. There should be an integrating period, less pressure and a safety net should they struggle at first, whether they have been off for mental health or physical reasons.

 

Again the impression I get is all that matters is getting them off benefits, not actually helping them find and keep jobs.

[Guest MattP]

But it is not the people saying that they cannot work, it has generally been people assessed and signed off by doctors as not being fit to work, being on disability for years, then all of a sudden being told that they have to go back to work. There have been cases of suicide after receiving the ATOS verdict.

People physically able to work, aren't always mentally strong enough to cope with work, imagine you have ended up seriously depressed due to your job, you get signed off by your doctor, because it was detrimental to your mental well being. A few years later you get ATOS telling you you have to find a job and your benefits are being stopped. That could cause the on set of serious depression, and has in at least oen case I've seen led to someone taking their life.

I would also like to know what support and help is offered to these people in getting a job, the impression is that ATOS declare you fit, your benefits get stopped and you have to find a job, surely there should be some sort of back to work program, if people have been off for a while they may not be in a position to find a job, and may require integrating back into the work place slowly. Maybe that is just my wooly liberal thinking.

I think the last line is spot on.

Work is hard, it will be mentally challenging, you will get depressed through it, that's what happens.

How do we deal with that I don't know? The answer certainly isn't to just let anyone who says they aren't mentally capable of work have a life funded off the state, you'll be bankrupt within months.

Of course ATOS have found loads of people fit to work, I can't begin to imagine how many were coerced onto disability benefits over the last ten years despite being fine.

Real problem these so called mental illnesses seem to be multiplying by thousands every year and it always seems to end up with the victim being given free money, at some point we are going to have to work out how to get these people contributing to society despite their illness.

We can't afford to keep on paying people to do little or nothing.

[Merging Cultures]

I listened to London's Best Conversation for a bit, it is quite well balanced. 

 

They had a guy on who wouldn't take a job because he had to start at 7am. He's been on JSA for a long long time. 

 

His reasoning was that everyone else works 9-5 and he wasn't prepared to work earlier.

 

Absolutely disgusting.

[Guest MattP]

I listened to London's Best Conversation for a bit, it is quite well balanced.

They had a guy on who wouldn't take a job because he had to start at 7am. He's been on JSA for a long long time.

His reasoning was that everyone else works 9-5 and he wasn't prepared to work earlier.

Absolutely disgusting.

But he might have mental issues.

He might be scared of the dark, he might not have an alarm clock, he might not know the difference between am and pm.

It's our fault really though, the entitlement culture has been allowed to fester for so long, it's going to be an almighty struggle to turn it around.

[Merging Cultures]

But he might have mental issues.

He might be scared of the dark, he might not have an alarm clock, he might not know the difference between am and pm.

It's our fault really though, the entitlement culture has been allowed to fester for so long, it's going to be an almighty struggle to turn it around.

 

Just had to check I had am/pm right

 

Listening to LBC right now actually (thanks to the internet). They have a woman on who can't work because she has some conditions, but I don't think they have specified.

 

There is going to be a demonstration against ATOS... OMG!

[Guest MattP]

Just had to check I had am/pm right

Listening to LBC right now actually (thanks to the internet). They have a woman on who can't work because she has some conditions, but I don't think they have specified.

There is going to be a demonstration against ATOS... OMG!

A demonstration agaisnt people who are trying to get them back to work.

That's one way to get them out doing something.

[Captain...]

I think the last line is spot on.

Work is hard, it will be mentally challenging, you will get depressed through it, that's what happens.

How do we deal with that I don't know? The answer certainly isn't to just let anyone who says they aren't mentally capable of work have a life funded off the state, you'll be bankrupt within months.

Of course ATOS have found loads of people fit to work, I can't begin to imagine how many were coerced onto disability benefits over the last ten years despite being fine.

Real problem these so called mental illnesses seem to be multiplying by thousands every year and it always seems to end up with the victim being given free money, at some point we are going to have to work out how to get these people contributing to society despite their illness.

We can't afford to keep on paying people to do little or nothing.

 

You mean me being a wooly liberal, or we should get people back to work slowly?

 

It is this all or nothing philosophy that bothers me, there is so much grey area, especially when it comes to mental illness, having seen what depression can do to people first hand, it is not something to be taken lightly, but then the alternative of not working at all can't be good for someone's mental health and will trap them into a cycle of dependency. I think companies need to be more aware of the pressures they put on their staff and be more accomodating when they are under stress. Reducing hours and balancing the workload is surely better than having someone go off on sick or quit through stress.

[Merging Cultures]

Just listening to Bob Crow.

 

I didn't realise the Tube workers were on strike because their break rooms and train cabs are messy... eh?! Tell your members to clean up after themselves! THis is the world we live in now. People go on strike because they are not cleaning up after themselves.

 

http://www.lbc.co.uk/listen-julias-blazing-row-with-bob-crow-69605

 

EDIT: I just noticed that this argument was from 2013.

[Guest MattP]

Bit of both

I agree with all that there, problem is now we are in am economic union with a load of other countries and have freedom of movement.

You've given companies a license to pay low wages and treat their staff however they want with that, got someone bored and struggling? Boot him out, you can bring in a Romanian on minimum wage.

Had a very interesting chat with a friend of mine who runs a factory last week, he said his place has gone from being 100% English to 95% Polish in ten years.

To get staff in the 90's he was paying nearly £7 an hour, damn good wage. He now pays minimum which is even less as they'll do it for that.

Now there's a Tory who loves his EU. He's got three villas now instead of the one he had.

You are going to struggle to get people back working when they earn less for the same job they did 15 years back.

[Guest MattP]

Just listening to Bob Crow.

I didn't realise the Tube workers were on strike because their break rooms and train cabs are messy... eh?! Tell your members to clean up after themselves! THis is the world we live in now. People go on strike because they are not cleaning up after themselves.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/listen-julias-blazing-row-with-bob-crow-69605

EDIT: I just noticed that this argument was from 2013.

Bob Crow, this generations greatest champagne socialist.

He's actually on a beach in Brazil today while he's ordered his staff to strike

[MooseBreath]

Just had to check I had am/pm right

Listening to LBC right now actually (thanks to the internet). They have a woman on who can't work because she has some conditions, but I don't think they have specified.

There is going to be a demonstration against ATOS... OMG!

How the hell are they going to demonstrate when they're all disabl..... Oh.

[Buce]

How the hell are they going to demonstrate when they're all disabl..... Oh.

You are beneath contempt.

[Strokes]

Just had to check I had am/pm right

Listening to LBC right now actually (thanks to the internet). They have a woman on who can't work because she has some conditions, but I don't think they have specified.

There is going to be a demonstration against ATOS... OMG!

I'm fit enough to demonstrate, march with a placard in potentially stormy conditions with crowds of people. All to prove I can't work hmmmmm.

Pity they can't put as much effot into finding a job.

[Rincewind]

You are making it sound far simpler than it is.  Your logic goes:

 

1) Someone says they cannot work

2) ATOS shoudl assess them and agree they are not fit to work on the say so of the individual who is incentivised not to work.

3) Benefits continue to be paid.

 

This assumes that people are not lying or exaggerating their lack of capability.  That is a huge assumption to make.

Of course they should not take the persons word for it that they are not fit. That is why when you have been on the sick for a few years you visit the doctor at regular intervals. It wouldtake a matter of minutes for the Dr to tick a couple of boxes on a form. If ATOS are not satisfied they could call for a second opinion. At very least there should be an independent Dr present at interviews who can give impartial advice to the assessor even if they are volunteer.

In the long run it would be more cost effective. ATM because they are employed by the government they are obliged to meet targets. It is not. Fair to those that have been declared fit and. Later on win appeals after going months on hardship payment having had ESA stopped.

There is also a demo in Leicester on Saturday I think. There have been meetings at the crumbling cookie the last few Sundays. There are a lot of angry people out there but their voices are not reported.

[Guest MattP]

lol

Let me know where that demo is I'm in town before footy.

[Rincewind]

They have wheelchairs moose. Plus there are able bodied people with compassion enough to support them, maybe wives' husbands' children or parents.

[Guest MattP]

Any chance they can get that socialist magician to try and cure a few?

[Vlad the Fox]

Completely agree, that is not my point, my point is people wonder how she can afford ipads and fags and booze on JSA, which is fvck all, I'm just speculating as to whether she has an 'income' from child maintenance, and whether that could account for her lifestyle. I have no idea how much that could be, and I assume it is means based on the father. It could explain how she can afford not work and have luxuries.

I think she was claiming disability allowance for her depression. I'm sure she mentioned it was being cut in one episode.

[Captain...]

I think she was claiming disability allowance for her depression. I'm sure she mentioned it was being cut in one episode.

 

Do you get extra for being off work for mental health issues? I understand those that have a physical disability need extra money to help them with carers, and modified transport and living and such like. How does it work with mental health?

[ADK]

Do you get extra for being off work for mental health issues? I understand those that have a physical disability need extra money to help them with carers, and modified transport and living and such like. How does it work with mental health?

 

Extra compared to what?

 

You get disability benefits if you can't work due to illness regardless of it being "physical or "mental".

 

You are probably thinking of DLA which is not means tested and is based on needs.

[Dr The Singh]

But he might have mental issues.

He might be scared of the dark, he might not have an alarm clock, he might not know the difference between am and pm.

It's our fault really though, the entitlement culture has been allowed to fester for so long, it's going to be an almighty struggle to turn it around.

This explains alot, the guys who boned her must also been mentally disturbed 

[Webbo]

This explains alot, the guys who boned her must also been mentally disturbed 

If he wasn't before he certainly would have been afterwards.

[Dr The Singh]

If he wasn't before he certainly would have been afterwards.

MattP's been there, his posts suggest he is getting alittle disturbed.  Ken/Rincewind, who has also been sniffing, has had a new lease of life...............go figure????????

[Rincewind]

Do you get extra for being off work for mental health issues? I understand those that have a physical disability need extra money to help them with carers, and modified transport and living and such like. How does it work with mental health?

I can find out.