Union FS Posted 29 January 2014 Posted 29 January 2014 As most of you are probably now aware, the decision to make 800 tickets available on the gate at St. Andrew's last night came as a complete surprise and the way in which it was handled was disappointing to say the least. With that in mind, Union FS have written the below letter to the West Midlands Police force and have requested information held under the Freedom of Information Act 2000. If anyone spoke with the Police and/or Birmingham City stewards last night, please do get in touch. We do not believe that this treatment was fair, justified or required in any way and would like to ensure that this does not happen again between now and the end of what could be one of the most successful season's in over a decade. Thank you, Union FS http://filbospirit.wordpress.com/2014/01/29/an-open-letter-to-the-west-midlands-police-force/ It is with a great deal of sadness and regret that we write the following in respect of Tuesday's Football League match between Birmingham City and Leicester City.As we all know, the evening was a hugely successful one on the pitch for Leicester as Nigel Pearson's men recorded their eighth consecutive league victory and in doing so, set a new club record.The previous record run of seven successive wins had stood for over twenty years, and is a record that more Leicester fans should have seen broken at St. Andrew’s. Unfortunately however, that number was effectively capped at 2,589 – at the apparent instruction of the West Midlands Police. It would not be an exaggeration to say that the whole ticket sales process for the game was, quite frankly, a shambles. Initially a paltry 1,205 were allocated to fans of Leicester City despite the good form shown by their team that would suggest a bigger number be required. As the team's league wins totted up, so did the allocation – first to 2,071 and finally to 2,544. General sale started just three working days prior to match day. Whether this process had any police input is up for debate but we cannot comment.Despite the improved allocation, demand still clearly outstripped supply. Strange, considering the home team's financial plight and the vast swathes of empty seats at St. Andrew’s that needed filling. Even stranger that Derby County have been provided with an initial 2,800 tickets for their game at St. Andrew’s on Saturday despite having a significantly smaller average away following than Leicester. Enquiries were made to both LCFC and BCFC as to whether tickets would be on sale on the gate. Both clubs responded in the negative. One or two fans alleged that Birmingham's ticket office had informed them that they had been instructed by the Police not to sell any on the gate as 'it was the closest Birmingham had to a derby game all season' – an apparent justification of the extortionate and sometimes unnecessary policing costs imposed on football clubs.So our initial questions to the WMP, under a freedom of information request, are as follows: Did you inform Birmingham City and/or Leicester City to pass on information to their fans that no tickets would go on sale to away fans on the night of the game? If so, why and on what grounds?So that was, by all accounts, supposed to be that. Except it wasn't. At around 7pm on the night of the game, news broke that 800 tickets were in fact available on the doors. It would be naive to think that this was anything other than a deliberate tactic to deter more fans from making the journey. Law abiding Leicester City fans of all ages had been effectively robbed of a chance to see history made by their team. It is again alleged by a Leicester City fan that a Birmingham official had told him the decision to not advertise the tickets available on the gate was made to 'avoid undesirables turning up'.So our next question to the WMP, under a freedom of information request ,is why? Why did you make this decision and on what grounds? What evidence or intelligence did you have to suggest that Leicester fans would cause a disturbance?This is not the first time Leicester have had allocations limited on police or SAG advice. In February 2012, Norwich City were forced to make a similar decision on the basis that Leicester fans were deemed 'high-risk' ahead of an FA Cup tie at Carrow Road. On this occassion, City fans were again prevented from seeing their side grab a surprise win.We also believe that the tactics of keeping potential 'undesirables' outside of the ground where control is surely more difficult, rather than inside of the ground is questionable at best. The mere fact that the official away attendance is 45 higher than the final allocation suggests that at least this many were prepared to chance it and may have sought refuge in the home areas of the Stadium if no tickets were available with the visitors. How is this preferable from a policing standpoint?Unfortunately this appears to be a completely unjustified decision to prevent Leicester fans from seeing a first in their 130 year history and denying Birmingham City the right to much needed revenue. We should be grateful if you would respond to our requests by e-mailing us at [email protected]. Union FS
AndWhat? Posted 29 January 2014 Posted 29 January 2014 Looking forward to seeing their response. If I knew they were selling tickets on the day I would have gone and because of their bullshit decision I missed our record breaking night.
johnny the fox Posted 29 January 2014 Posted 29 January 2014 Police in general are fookin assholes these days.. usually very young and lacking common sense.
steveherbe Posted 29 January 2014 Posted 29 January 2014 Top work lads, glad you're prepared to question the authorities
Bert Posted 29 January 2014 Posted 29 January 2014 Great letter. I expect they'll deny that they advised us to say tickets wouldn't be available and that it was agreed between the clubs.
Saxondale Posted 29 January 2014 Posted 29 January 2014 Nice one. Unfortunately I'm not sure such information would be available under FOI. Hope they do respond. On a seperate issue, I witnessed some of our own police doing 45-50 in a 30 zone earlier without blues and twos on. Ironically, it was in one of their 'safety' camera hotspots.
The Year Of The Fox Posted 30 January 2014 Posted 30 January 2014 Looking forward to seeing their response. If I knew they were selling tickets on the day I would have gone and because of their bullshit decision I missed our record breaking night. Ditto
MooseBreath Posted 30 January 2014 Posted 30 January 2014 Seems fairly obvious they made tickets available late on when they realised there were only about ten brum fans going and the prospect of trouble was very slight. Not a lot to argue about there really. They could withheld the tickets and we'd have been none the wiser. They'll say that the risk level reduced late on (which is perfectly reasonable tbf) and so they did try to allow more fans in.
Burbage Fox Posted 30 January 2014 Posted 30 January 2014 Hi great letter and here is my story My dad who lives near Stourbridge now wanted to go but despite me being a priority 2 I could not get him a ticket so decided not go. I then told him to go and get 3 tickets based on his postcode for the Birmingham main stand, really did not want to miss the record being broken. Before he did that for some strange reason I checked with the LCFC ticket office that there would be nothing on the gate and they said no but then I thought I would check with Birmingham ticket office. I explained my predicament then they told me that 50 tickets would be available on the gate this was about 1 in the afternoon and I did ask for confirmation and they confirmed that about 50 would be there on a first come first served basis, I managed to get hold of a few mates who I knew did not have tickets to tell them.... never mentioned 800. Not wanting to miss it we got there just after 6 and found they had 800. I tried to get hold of Radio Leicester so they could put it out there but did not have any luck. Unfortunately I am of an age that I don't have Twitter or Facebook so could not get a general message out. very sorry for all the fans who did not make it... but if you really want to go take my advice and try and then try again..
Dan Posted 30 January 2014 Posted 30 January 2014 Very well said and good that you've got in touch about it. It's about time people started contesting these ridiculous and unnecessary decisions rather than accepting being treated as something you aren't. I'm pretty sure Forest said the same thing happened with them.
Dan Posted 30 January 2014 Posted 30 January 2014 Seems fairly obvious they made tickets available late on when they realised there were only about ten brum fans going and the prospect of trouble was very slight. Not a lot to argue about there really. They could withheld the tickets and we'd have been none the wiser. They'll say that the risk level reduced late on (which is perfectly reasonable tbf) and so they did try to allow more fans in. No, they inconvenienced everyone and their move benefited absolutely no-one other than themselves, and I think even that is debatable. I stil don't understand how cutting an allocation apparently stops trouble.
1964FOX Posted 30 January 2014 Posted 30 January 2014 Unfortunately the police can't win in these circumstances. They have a duty to ensure public safety and act on intelligence received. Remember there was quite a lot of trouble at the last game at their place so they may have been expecting a turn out. I hate ticket restriction as much as anyone but we should be blaming the fans from both teams who attend intent on causing trouble.
MooseBreath Posted 30 January 2014 Posted 30 January 2014 No, they inconvenienced everyone and their move benefited absolutely no-one other than themselves, and I think even that is debatable. I stil don't understand how cutting an allocation apparently stops trouble. They will say it benefitted the few who were able to pay on the gate, and inconvenienced nobody as it was an additional allocation. They will say more away fans means mote trouble and probably have stats to back it up. Not saying I agree with what they did but it's easily justifiable from their point of view
Dan Posted 30 January 2014 Posted 30 January 2014 Unfortunately the police can't win in these circumstances. They have a duty to ensure public safety and act on intelligence received. Remember there was quite a lot of trouble at the last game at their place so they may have been expecting a turn out. I hate ticket restriction as much as anyone but we should be blaming the fans from both teams who attend intent on causing trouble. I completely missed that, what happened? They will say it benefitted the few who were able to pay on the gate, and inconvenienced nobody as it was an additional allocation. They will say more away fans means mote trouble and probably have stats to back it up. Not saying I agree with what they did but it's easily justifiable from their point of view That to me isn't justification, that's just using a technicaility and I ain't buying it. Although if what 1964FOX says is true then that may be justification although then again, I'm still not convinced.
foxer Posted 30 January 2014 Posted 30 January 2014 Well done that needed doing and is a cracking letter. Please do keep us updated with their replies as I'd be very interested to see what kind of excuse they come up with. I was lucky enough to get tickets but really feel for those that didn't. It was a great night and more of us should have been allowed to experience it.
1964FOX Posted 30 January 2014 Posted 30 January 2014 I completely missed that, what happened? That to me isn't justification, that's just using a technicaility and I ain't buying it. Although if what 1964FOX says is true then that may be justification although then again, I'm still not convinced. I will tell you when I next see you.
yorkie1999 Posted 30 January 2014 Posted 30 January 2014 I would have thought, especially from what i've heard about reduced staffing levels within wmp, that they would be encouraging clubs to allow more away fans to attend matches. No away fans equals no police required equals more police redundancies.
AndWhat? Posted 30 January 2014 Posted 30 January 2014 Unfortunately the police can't win in these circumstances. They have a duty to ensure public safety and act on intelligence received. Remember there was quite a lot of trouble at the last game at their place so they may have been expecting a turn out. I hate ticket restriction as much as anyone but we should be blaming the fans from both teams who attend intent on causing trouble. That doesn't make it alright to punish the majority for the actions of a minority though.
Banks Posted 30 January 2014 Posted 30 January 2014 The majority of police are wankers. You get a few decent ones but most of them are utter pricks.
Simi Posted 30 January 2014 Posted 30 January 2014 Can't see how this information would be availabile under the FoI act but I could be wrong. A steward confirmed to me that 800 were available, he was standing next to the 'Cash' turnstile.
1964FOX Posted 30 January 2014 Posted 30 January 2014 The majority of police are wankers. You get a few decent ones but most of them are utter pricks. I would disagree, the majority are fine with a few awkward ones, no different to any other section of people.
TheLeftSide Posted 30 January 2014 Posted 30 January 2014 If Birmingham had given us the full away end the police charge to them would have been a lot higher and would have potentially outweighed the income from the extra ticket sales so no benefit to their club. On top of this being such a close distance you would expect some walk up (not aware of the sell-out/chance it in the home end) and if the away end was full you’d inevitably end up with quite a few of our fans in the home end and potentially trouble. So not advertising more tickets would be available on the day would not incur them any additional police costs and selling on the day under the radar would prevent any trouble and ultimately be the cheapest solution for BCFC. I don’t agree with it but unfortunately under the current rules it appears nobody has done anything wrong.
Kitchandro Posted 30 January 2014 Posted 30 January 2014 Seems fairly obvious they made tickets available late on when they realised there were only about ten brum fans going and the prospect of trouble was very slight. Not a lot to argue about there really. They could withheld the tickets and we'd have been none the wiser. They'll say that the risk level reduced late on (which is perfectly reasonable tbf) and so they did try to allow more fans in. Are you seriously suggesting that Birmingham were unable to predict approximately how many home fans were going to turn up?
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