Uncle Albert Posted 10 March 2014 Posted 10 March 2014 Euro 2004 was our best chance. Both 2002 and 2004 were the best chances. 2004 we lost Rooney to a broken foot, so it would of been difficult to have got past France with just Michael Owen and Darius Vassell.
Sharpe's Fox Posted 10 March 2014 Posted 10 March 2014 Both 2002 and 2004 were the best chances. 2004 we lost Rooney to a broken foot, so it would of been difficult to have got past France with just Michael Owen and Darius Vassell. We would have played Holland in the semis if Sols header was allowed, France had got knocked out by Greece. I see your point, though.
Pride_Of_The_Midlands Posted 10 March 2014 Posted 10 March 2014 Who we gonna get to train our coaches then? Who do you think trained up the Spanish coaches when they went 44 years without winning a trophy? That's right, the Spanish.
Uncle Albert Posted 10 March 2014 Posted 10 March 2014 We would have played Holland in the semis if Sols header was allowed, France had got knocked out by Greece. I see your point, though. Ohhhh yeah! Bloody hell, Greece didn't win it the easy way did they?
Pride_Of_The_Midlands Posted 10 March 2014 Posted 10 March 2014 Well, yes but it's not that simple. 90% of countries don't have one of the richest and most viewed football leagues in the world, they don't have multi billionaires backing their clubs, they don't have over 150 years of footballing history to call upon or some of the best training facilities in the world. When you consider all that England has as a footballing nation, we underachieve massively. We have the history, the money, the population that is crazy about football and the facilities. The fact that we're currently ranked 15th in the world, behind countries like Greece and Chile, is frankly shameful. England has everything in place to have a team that is consistently among the best, and by that I mean genuinely one of the main contenders for trophies along with Brazil and Germany, but it doesn't have the right people in charge to bring it about. It's down to attitude as well, an attitude that goes right back. It's almost as though we think that the name of England will simply improve things by itself, but the FA needs to realise that it needs to work massively on the English style. Germany did it at the start of century, realising that the three World Cups and harking back to Beckenbauer and Muller did bugger all when being dumped out of the Euros by Romania and smashed 5-1 at home by an England side that had Heskey up front. They go to Brazil in the summer as one of the favourites. Spain realised that the fact of their club football being among the very best on the planet meant nothing on the international stage, so invested time and effort into development. Two European Championships and a maiden World Cup later, it's safe to say it's worked for them. We need to learn from foreign coaches and methods and employ them. There is no point having the best training facilities in the world at St. George's Park and then paying long ball merchants like Boothroyd to run it for you. Long ball is dead. It's been dead at the highest level for twenty years or more, and even the majority of teams in our division have binned it as a style. Christ, even Stoke keep it on the deck these days. We can't simply copy the styles of these successful foreign nations, but we can implement some of their style alongside ours. Technical ability needs to be worked on for ball retention, but we also need to press and work hard off the ball. We need to look objectively at what often makes foreign players struggle to adapt when they come to the Premier League and consider how to use that information to our advantage in a game situation; most foreign players will tell you that the pace and intensity is what they most struggle with, so implement that in a game rather than slowly pass it sideways for 90 minutes. Get in teams' faces and learn to retain the ball whilst still moving it around at speed. This is what teams in the top five, the top ten, do well. It's not as if we don't have the resources to work with. This all means that we can use the proliferation of foreign players and coaches in the English game to our advantage rather than our detriment, crying about how they're stopping English players from getting a chance is self-pitying and self-defeating. We can learn from them whilst they're here and think why we're importing foreign players. Greece have never got past the group stage of the World Cup. Chile have not got further than us at the World Cup since they hosted it in 1962. Brazil and Germany have a significant population advantage over us. For all the German hype they have still won nothing since Euro 96.
C-man Posted 10 March 2014 Posted 10 March 2014 Someone start mentioning the Bundesliga.. Eh? One person in the whole thread had mentioned bringing over German coaches to start the redevelopment of Grassroots. Not a wholly unrealistic or stupid suggestion given the FA have sent delegations over to Germany to see how they redesigned their programmes after a disastrous Euro 2000. Now you've mentioned it though.... Agreed. Take away Bayern Munich and youve got a hugely overrated league. In fact Bayern Munich will probably kill the goose that laid the egg with their dominance. Overrated by who exactly? Most people acknowledge that Dortmund getting to the final last year was something of a fluke. Schalke got to the semi a few years back and were demolished. It's not really rated by anyone except UEFA's co-efficient which is based on actual performance of its member clubs. Even then it's only 3rd. The fact is that people enjoy watching the Bundesliga because there's a shit load of good goals, some terrible defending and the atmosphere is always class. Take out Bayern and you have an incredibly competitive league. It's exciting that teams like Augsburg and Mainz have realistic shots at Europe. Doesn't happen in the PL. That is what people like and the fact young German players get a chance to play every week - augmenting their national side - is a bonus.
Pride_Of_The_Midlands Posted 10 March 2014 Posted 10 March 2014 The Bayernliga definitely became overrated this past year. All you ever heard was Bundesliga this and Bundesliga that. It was nothing to with teams like Augsburg and Mainz. It was all based on Bayern and Dortmund reaching the Champions League final. Btw Swansea and Wigan both played in Europe this season.
C-man Posted 10 March 2014 Posted 10 March 2014 The Bayernliga definitely became overrated this past year. All you ever heard was Bundesliga this and Bundesliga that. It was nothing to with teams like Augsburg and Mainz. It was all based on Bayern and Dortmund reaching the Champions League final. Btw Swansea and Wigan both played in Europe this season. There was me thinking it's nice to hear about other European leagues a couple of times a week rather than be force fed PL shite 100% of the time. Seriously it's a real shame if you get that upset about having to read something that isn't English football related. Did they!? Must've missed where they finished 5th and 6th in the league
Fox92 Posted 10 March 2014 Posted 10 March 2014 The Bayernliga definitely became overrated this past year. All you ever heard was Bundesliga this and Bundesliga that. It was nothing to with teams like Augsburg and Mainz. It was all based on Bayern and Dortmund reaching the Champions League final. Btw Swansea and Wigan both played in Europe this season. But surely that highlights the fact? I mean, Dortmund topped a group with Madrid, Ajax and Manchester City in it. Wasn't an easy task. That was before beating Madrid 4-1 at home in the semi's. After getting out of their group, Munich beat Arsenal, Juventus and smashed Barcelona. They didn't even concede in the quater's or semi's.
C-man Posted 10 March 2014 Posted 10 March 2014 But surely that highlights the fact? I mean, Dortmund topped a group with Madrid, Ajax and Manchester City in it. Wasn't an easy task. That was before beating Madrid 4-1 at home in the semi's. After getting out of their group, Munich beat Arsenal, Juventus and smashed Barcelona. They didn't even concede in the quater's or semi's. How dare the media talk about two teams in the Champions League final. What kind of pisspot cup is this?!
Guest MattP Posted 10 March 2014 Posted 10 March 2014 It wasn't Sven's fault that Beckham shit a tackle and Seaman got lobbed from 30 yards out, we should have beaten Brazil that day and we would have gone on to play Turkey in a World Cup Semi-Final. It waa his fault that we had Nicky Butt and Trevor Sinclair on the pitch with Scholes relegated to the left wing. It was also his fault that despite needing a goal agaisnt ten man Brazil we somehow ended up with Heskey and Vassell up front in the last twenty minutes whilst Fowler and Owen were sat on their backsides. We'd have won that competition with a half decent manager.
Corky Posted 10 March 2014 Posted 10 March 2014 Greece have never got past the group stage of the World Cup. Chile have not got further than us at the World Cup since they hosted it in 1962. Brazil and Germany have a significant population advantage over us. For all the German hype they have still won nothing since Euro 96. For all the history, resources, money and clubs we have, to have won one tournament and reached two semi-finals is very mediocre. We've failed to qualify for the finals on more occasions.
MC Prussian Posted 10 March 2014 Posted 10 March 2014 Greece have never got past the group stage of the World Cup. Chile have not got further than us at the World Cup since they hosted it in 1962. Brazil and Germany have a significant population advantage over us. For all the German hype they have still won nothing since Euro 96. Greece have still won more silverware than England in the past 40 odd years. Chile have put together a good string of results in the past few years, nine wins out of sixteen games in the recent WC qualifying stages (10 out of 18 in the WC 2010 edition) and a couple of decent finishes in the Copa América. Brazil may have a bigger population, Germany's not that far off with 80 compared to England's 55 to 56 million people. I wouldn't call that "significant". According to a 2007 FIFA census, there were about six million active footballers in Germany - England can't be that far off. The "hype" surrounding the German national team stems from the fact that they have a rather young coach who puts a huge emphasis on attacking, attractive, youthful football. The German coaching model is something England should/could learn from, strive for and implement it to its best abilities.
MC Prussian Posted 10 March 2014 Posted 10 March 2014 The Bayernliga definitely became overrated this past year. All you ever heard was Bundesliga this and Bundesliga that. It was nothing to with teams like Augsburg and Mainz. It was all based on Bayern and Dortmund reaching the Champions League final. Btw Swansea and Wigan both played in Europe this season. Where? Bayern may be running away with the title this year, but they're just very focused and leave almost nothing to chance. The rest of the league is sitting pretty tightly together. When you look at the whole "value-for-money" aspect, the Bundesliga wins hands down.
Manwell Pablo Posted 10 March 2014 Posted 10 March 2014 Greece have never got past the group stage of the World Cup. Chile have not got further than us at the World Cup since they hosted it in 1962. Brazil and Germany have a significant population advantage over us. For all the German hype they have still won nothing since Euro 96. Which is exactly why them being ranked higher than us is rather embarrassing no?
Uncle Albert Posted 10 March 2014 Posted 10 March 2014 Eh? One person in the whole thread had mentioned bringing over German coaches to start the redevelopment of Grassroots. Not a wholly unrealistic or stupid suggestion given the FA have sent delegations over to Germany to see how they redesigned their programmes after a disastrous Euro 2000. Now you've mentioned it though.... Overrated by who exactly? Most people acknowledge that Dortmund getting to the final last year was something of a fluke. Schalke got to the semi a few years back and were demolished. It's not really rated by anyone except UEFA's co-efficient which is based on actual performance of its member clubs. Even then it's only 3rd. The fact is that people enjoy watching the Bundesliga because there's a shit load of good goals, some terrible defending and the atmosphere is always class. Take out Bayern and you have an incredibly competitive league. It's exciting that teams like Augsburg and Mainz have realistic shots at Europe. Doesn't happen in the PL. That is what people like and the fact young German players get a chance to play every week - augmenting their national side - is a bonus. It was a joke referring to another thread along this level, calm down Mr. Germany.
C-man Posted 10 March 2014 Posted 10 March 2014 It was a joke referring to another thread along this level, calm down Mr. Germany. Must have missed that one amongst the thousands of other Bundesliga threads.
Pride_Of_The_Midlands Posted 10 March 2014 Posted 10 March 2014 But surely that highlights the fact? I mean, Dortmund topped a group with Madrid, Ajax and Manchester City in it. Wasn't an easy task. That was before beating Madrid 4-1 at home in the semi's. After getting out of their group, Munich beat Arsenal, Juventus and smashed Barcelona. They didn't even concede in the quater's or semi's. Not really, it's only 2 teams out of 18. Schalke and Bayer Leverkusen both got smashed at home in current round of the Champions League. Also German teams haven't been doing that well in the Europa League.
Uncle Albert Posted 10 March 2014 Posted 10 March 2014 Must have missed that one amongst the thousands of other Bundesliga threads. Well it wasn't in a thread based on the Bundesliga. Every single time someone mentions English football improving then there are people who jump up and tell us all English football should copy the German model. It's boring now.
Pride_Of_The_Midlands Posted 10 March 2014 Posted 10 March 2014 For all the history, resources, money and clubs we have, to have won one tournament and reached two semi-finals is very mediocre. We've failed to qualify for the finals on more occasions. Probably we should have done a bit better but our record would look much better if we were good at penalty shoot outs. We've failed to qualify for 3 World Cups which is actually better than Spain (4) and France (5)
Pride_Of_The_Midlands Posted 10 March 2014 Posted 10 March 2014 Greece have still won more silverware than England in the past 40 odd years. Chile have put together a good string of results in the past few years, nine wins out of sixteen games in the recent WC qualifying stages (10 out of 18 in the WC 2010 edition) and a couple of decent finishes in the Copa América. Brazil may have a bigger population, Germany's not that far off with 80 compared to England's 55 to 56 million people. I wouldn't call that "significant". According to a 2007 FIFA census, there were about six million active footballers in Germany - England can't be that far off. The "hype" surrounding the German national team stems from the fact that they have a rather young coach who puts a huge emphasis on attacking, attractive, youthful football. The German coaching model is something England should/could learn from, strive for and implement it to its best abilities. Yes but they've never won the World Cup have they. Germany have 54 year old manager who has won nothing despite being in charge for over 100 games. Which is exactly why them being ranked higher than us is rather embarrassing no? Not really. When we were ranked 3rd in the world no-one took the FIFA rankings seriously.
C-man Posted 10 March 2014 Posted 10 March 2014 Well it wasn't in a thread based on the Bundesliga. Every single time someone mentions English football improving then there are people who jump up and tell us all English football should copy the German model. It's boring now. I don't think we should copy them - it would be stupid to. As people have already said, Int'l football is a few steps behind club football and to copy something that was done and was successful 14 years ago is fairly pointless. Not to mention impossible as we have a completely different style of league where money is everything. I have no idea how to improve us in the short-term, but forcing the PL to invest more than £12m a year (0.48% of £2.5bn TV deal) in grass roots and coaching would be a good start.
Manwell Pablo Posted 10 March 2014 Posted 10 March 2014 Yes but they've never won the World Cup have they. Germany have 54 year old manager who has won nothing despite being in charge for over 100 games. Not really. When we were ranked 3rd in the world no-one took the FIFA rankings seriously. The Ranking system has been improved dramatically since we were, for some unbeknown reason, incorrectly regarded as the 3rd best team in the world.
Corky Posted 10 March 2014 Posted 10 March 2014 Probably we should have done a bit better but our record would look much better if we were good at penalty shoot outs. We've failed to qualify for 3 World Cups which is actually better than Spain (4) and France (5) You can add in the 3 failures to reach the European Championships in 1976, 1984 and 2008. Six failures to qualify overall, as opposed to three semi-finals. Our record should be better anyway.
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