Penalties don't count.

[Fez of Mahrez]

Knockeart isn't expected to get that amount of goals. Nugent has had 15 goals minimum for the past few years - this season, a season where we have been FLYING and he has taken double digit penalties, he has 20 goals... It does not take a genius to work out that this season his goal scoring record has not been good enough.

Not been good enough for what?

[Guest ttfn]

You ignore his point, namely that the role nuge has played this season would see 10 goals and 11 assists as a success. He's not been playing the goal scorer role, he's been playing the midfield-forward linkup role

I'm very much pro-Nugent. I think he's had a very good season and has scored some really important goals.

But I think people are looking a bit too much into the "withdrawn role" here as an excuse for what has been (in terms of quantity) a fairly poor return for a forward who has started most games for the best team in the league, and the team which creates the most chances.

 

I doubt that the likes of Bergkamp, Cantona or Zola would rarely have been happy with 10 goals from a 38 game season in their peak years, let alone 46, and they are perhaps the finest exponents of the art of that withdrawn striker role in the modern era.

 

And in any event in plenty of games Nugent has been right up front with Vardy.

 

I think it's perfectly legitimate to criticise Nugent's goalscoring output this season, or at least not to be drooling over the prospect of him hitting 20 goals. That does not and should not cloud the fact that he has been a very important player for us this season and has repeatedly made the difference in the biggest games for us (goal against Burnley at home, assist at QPR away, phenomenal display against Derby at home, winner at Leeds away, goal against Burnley away, 2 goals at Ipswich where we rarely win).

[Agent Fox]

I'm very much pro-Nugent. I think he's had a very good season and has scored some really important goals.

But I think people are looking a bit too much into the "withdrawn role" here as an excuse for what has been (in terms of quantity) a fairly poor return for a forward who has started most games for the best team in the league, and the team which creates the most chances.

 

I doubt that the likes of Bergkamp, Cantona or Zola would rarely have been happy with 10 goals from a 38 game season in their peak years, let alone 46, and they are perhaps the finest exponents of the art of that withdrawn striker role in the modern era.

 

And in any event in plenty of games Nugent has been right up front with Vardy.

 

I think it's perfectly legitimate to criticise Nugent's goalscoring output this season, or at least not to be drooling over the prospect of him hitting 20 goals. That does not and should not cloud the fact that he has been a very important player for us this season and has repeatedly made the difference in the biggest games for us (goal against Burnley at home, assist at QPR away, phenomenal display against Derby at home, winner at Leeds away, goal against Burnley away, 2 goals at Ipswich where we rarely win).

 

Probably worded better than my post, but my thoughts also.

[Agent Fox]

Not been good enough for what?

 

Good enough for the backing he has received from certain fans and being almost undroppable.

[Charl91]

I'm very much pro-Nugent. I think he's had a very good season and has scored some really important goals.

But I think people are looking a bit too much into the "withdrawn role" here as an excuse for what has been (in terms of quantity) a fairly poor return for a forward who has started most games for the best team in the league, and the team which creates the most chances.

 

I doubt that the likes of Bergkamp, Cantona or Zola would rarely have been happy with 10 goals from a 38 game season in their peak years, let alone 46, and they are perhaps the finest exponents of the art of that withdrawn striker role in the modern era.

 

And in any event in plenty of games Nugent has been right up front with Vardy.

 

I think it's perfectly legitimate to criticise Nugent's goalscoring output this season, or at least not to be drooling over the prospect of him hitting 20 goals. That does not and should not cloud the fact that he has been a very important player for us this season and has repeatedly made the difference in the biggest games for us (goal against Burnley at home, assist at QPR away, phenomenal display against Derby at home, winner at Leeds away, goal against Burnley away, 2 goals at Ipswich where we rarely win).

 

That's exactly what I've been trying to say. He's been an important player, and a scorer of crucial goals, but not a consistent goal scorer.

[Fez of Mahrez]

Good enough for the backing he has received from certain fans and being almost undroppable.

But his goalscoring record has been good enough. What else did you want us to do this season? Win every game?

[Agent Fox]

But his goalscoring record has been good enough. What else did you want us to do this season? Win every game?

 

Did you not?

 

His record is not good enough for the position we find ourselves in. Take away the penalties, his record is woeful - That is a legitimate statement and one not to be questioned as penalties are a bonus, you might get one twice a game or once every 4 months. Should he have not scored these penalties, (none of which he earnt..) then would you and other still be defending him?

[theessexfox]

Did you not?

 

His record is not good enough for the position we find ourselves in. Take away the penalties, his record is woeful - That is a legitimate statement and one not to be questioned as penalties are a bonus, you might get one twice a game or once every 4 months. Should he have not scored these penalties, (none of which he earnt..) then would you and other still be defending him?

Yes, he's still scored key goals, got key assists and been vital in linking up our play. He's had off games but think back to Stoke away - I recall people saying what a difference it made to our play when he came on? His value to the team isn't just about goals, of which he's score 19 this season (fact).

[Fez of Mahrez]

Did you not?

 

His record is not good enough for the position we find ourselves in. Take away the penalties, his record is woeful - That is a legitimate statement and one not to be questioned as penalties are a bonus, you might get one twice a game or once every 4 months. Should he have not scored these penalties, (none of which he earnt..) then would you and other still be defending him?

If we were champions-elect having won 28 of our 43 games, I wouldn't really see the need to be slagging off one of our key players.

There's far more to a forward's role than just goals. As Pearson says, we defend as a team and attack as a team. The understanding between Nugent and Vardy has been vital to our success this season. Look at Vardy's goal against Derby for example. Nugent winning the ball and playing a perfect through ball. Or Vardy's first goal at Barnsley or his goal at QPR. Without Nugent's work for those goals, they don't happen. So do we take those goals away with the penalties and drop both of them?

[wight88]

How many were factual penalties?

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

All of them.

[lcfc81]

Although I completely disagree, and think penalties are just as important as any other type of goal scoring. (I am also very pro-nugent and think his effect on the team in terms of complete performance is very important). It would be interesting to see the championship top scorers list with penalties taken off. (Out of interest more than anything). Is such a list available?

[Silverdaz]

I'm very much pro-Nugent. I think he's had a very good season and has scored some really important goals.

But I think people are looking a bit too much into the "withdrawn role" here as an excuse for what has been (in terms of quantity) a fairly poor return for a forward who has started most games for the best team in the league, and the team which creates the most chances.

 

I doubt that the likes of Bergkamp, Cantona or Zola would rarely have been happy with 10 goals from a 38 game season in their peak years, let alone 46, and they are perhaps the finest exponents of the art of that withdrawn striker role in the modern era.

 

And in any event in plenty of games Nugent has been right up front with Vardy.

 

I think it's perfectly legitimate to criticise Nugent's goalscoring output this season, or at least not to be drooling over the prospect of him hitting 20 goals. That does not and should not cloud the fact that he has been a very important player for us this season and has repeatedly made the difference in the biggest games for us (goal against Burnley at home, assist at QPR away, phenomenal display against Derby at home, winner at Leeds away, goal against Burnley away, 2 goals at Ipswich where we rarely win).

But he hasnt been playing right up front with Vardy he has been deeper

[Big_Nige]

Vardy and Nugent created a partnership this season. That partnership was key to our sucess. Nugent has SCORED 21 goals. That's the only relevant and worthwhile stat in my opinion and I would class 21 goals as a sucessful return. One of the best things about Nuge is he turns up for all the big games, look at his record against the other teams in the top 4. Bagged 5 and set up 3 from the 10 goals we scored against Burnley, QPR and Derby. a direct hand in 8 of the 10 goals. Not bad in my book.

[Fox Ulike]

I'm very much pro-Nugent. I think he's had a very good season and has scored some really important goals.

But I think people are looking a bit too much into the "withdrawn role" here as an excuse for what has been (in terms of quantity) a fairly poor return for a forward who has started most games for the best team in the league, and the team which creates the most chances.

I doubt that the likes of Bergkamp, Cantona or Zola would rarely have been happy with 10 goals from a 38 game season in their peak years, let alone 46, and they are perhaps the finest exponents of the art of that withdrawn striker role in the modern era.

And in any event in plenty of games Nugent has been right up front with Vardy.

I think it's perfectly legitimate to criticise Nugent's goalscoring output this season, or at least not to be drooling over the prospect of him hitting 20 goals. That does not and should not cloud the fact that he has been a very important player for us this season and has repeatedly made the difference in the biggest games for us (goal against Burnley at home, assist at QPR away, phenomenal display against Derby at home, winner at Leeds away, goal against Burnley away, 2 goals at Ipswich where we rarely win).

In 1997, cantona, at his peak, scored 11 league goals in Man Uniteds Premiership winning season.

Case closed.

Oh, and Bergkamp scored 12....

Zola?

...

9.

[Xen]

I spent an embarrassing amount of time on this, the full table without ANY penalties. There may be the odd mistake as I had to enter the data by hand. I'll update at the end of the season if people are interested.

 

 

Edit: forgot to sort by goal difference. Which would put Millwall below Blackpool and into the relegation zone.

[Simmo86]

When did we last get a penalty??

[Harry - LCFC]

Obviously they count for the team but at an individual level they have masked a poor Goalscoring return for Nuge.

 

Exactly.

 

No disrespect to Matt because he's clearly put a bit of time into that but it's all irrelevant to the discussion. I've not met anyone who tries to argue that a goal from the spot is less important for the club, that would be ridiculous.

[Fox Ulike]

I spent an embarrassing amount of time on this, the full table without ANY penalties. There may be the odd mistake as I had to enter the data by hand. I'll update at the end of the season if people are interested.

 

 

Edit: forgot to sort by goal difference. Which would put Millwall below Blackpool and into the relegation zone.

 

Wow! So you have gone through every single Championship fixture and minused the effect of penalty goals and produced a complete league table?

 

I love stuff like this. Nice one.

[C-man]

Loads of foreign leagues count the top scorer as who has the most combined goals and assists. Clearly placing as much value on the person that provides the last pass - be it a 50 yard fizzer or a 5 yard square for a tap-in - as the one that finds the back of the net. Nugent has 31 goals and assists this year in the league, second only to Ross McCormack, who I think has taken a few penalties too?  

 

Anyone making a meal out of Nugent's poor scoring record needs their head looking at. He's been an absolutely vital part of us winning the league whether he's scored enough non-penalties or not.

[Xen]

Wow! So you have gone through every single Championship fixture and minused the effect of penalty goals and produced a complete league table?

 

I love stuff like this. Nice one.

 

Yep! Wasn't too difficult, just time consuming (the alternative was doing revision, so I welcomed the distraction ). Used the BBC results for most teams to make a table with the change in number of W/L/D, then the GD was fairly straightforward. First few took a while, but then it got quicker as I started filling more matches in as I was doing it for both teams at once, so by the time I got to Wigan there were very few matches left.

 

BBC mixes in cup matches with league matches, though, so I may have accidentally included one or two of those while inputting the results, hence the possibility of errors.

[Guest ttfn]

In 1997, cantona, at his peak, scored 11 league goals in Man Uniteds Premiership winning season.

Case closed.

Oh, and Bergkamp scored 12....

Zola?

...

9.

None of the players mentioned played over 31 games that season. Not to mention that Cantona retired at the end of that season.