England V Italy

[Grandad.]

So every league bar England Spain in Germany is poor is what your realistically saying there? A little disrespectful to world football don't you think?

I don't disagree with you people talk about Gerrard being better in his prime but Pirlo is 35 now and clearly getting older is going to play a bigger factor for him. I'd have Gerrard at the moment. But comparing Goal scoring and direct assists when discussing deep lying midfielders isn't really going to prove much especially when one took a lot of penalties and the other didn't.

It's not disrespectful, it's just my feelings towards that League, it's not a good League, so telling me someone is controlling a game for a team in that League compared to a player who did it for a team challenging in the top two leagues in Europe is a bit hard to read..

Stats regarding goals are a lot to go by, especially how many a midfielder creates. 7 more goals created is a lot, especially for a player controlling a game and dictating the game.

Gerrard did that in a much more intense league where games or won or lost in midfield.

I don't see how people can argue the case between a player who's played every role of midfield for club and country at the highest level compared to Pirlo? I really can't. It's worrying.

Like I said, it's the 'in' thing now to suck Pirlo off.

[Grandad.]

Regardless of whether you are right or wrong about Gerrard being better than Pirlo (past, present or future) simply looking at goals and assists is way too naive a method of determining who is a better player, particularly when one player has taken and scored a lot of penalties.

 

Otherwise you could argue that Modric and Xavi are worse than Jordan Henderson and I'm sure you would tell whoever suggested that to 'get in the bin'.

I'm not using them as my main argument, it's just a factor in the argument.

The Henderson one is purely just a joke, if you read into that then more fool you.

Gerrard is a better player than Pirlo ever was or will be, simple as that.

[marko]

Blimey, Grandad, you've got a lot of sand in your vagina over this Gerrard-Pirlo comparison.

[LCFC31]

Deep lying playmakers don't get many assists though because they start attacks rather than playing the last killer pass to finish one off.

[Grandad.]

No more needs to be said about this now, people clearly won't agree. 

 

Just don't tell me Steven Gerrard is overrated. 

[Feed The Yak!!]

No more needs to be said about this now, people clearly won't agree. 

 

Just don't tell me Steven Gerrard is overrated. 

He's overrated.

[LCFC31]

No more needs to be said about this now, people clearly won't agree. 

 

Just don't tell me Steven Gerrard is overrated. 

People won't agree for a reason.

[Grandad.]

He's overrated.

 

Witty response that, suppose when you're telling everyone how good Pirlo is based on his ability to grow a beard then that says it all. 

[Grandad.]

Where were all these Pirlo fans in 2006 when Italy won the World Cup, or when AC won the Champions League in 2007? He wasn't this adored man then. 

 

It's become a big thing in recent years, mainly since his tearing apart of England 2 years ago in a 0-0 draw how good he is and how much better he is than everyone else. 

[Feed The Yak!!]

Witty response that, suppose when you're telling everyone how good Pirlo is based on his ability to grow a beard then that says it all. 

Yeah that's the reason. How old are you?

[Feed The Yak!!]

Where were all these Pirlo fans in 2006 when Italy won the World Cup, or when AC won the Champions League in 2007? He wasn't this adored man then. 

 

It's become a big thing in recent years, mainly since his tearing apart of England 2 years ago in a 0-0 draw how good he is and how much better he is than everyone else. 

Funny you should say that, I've got a Milan shirt with his name on it from the 05/06 season. He's always been this good but people only realise when he does it on the international stage.

[Grandad.]

Yeah that's the reason. How old are you?

 

Old enough to know that Pirlo has been around for years and only in the past few idiots like you have jumped on some bandwagon thinking he is the best thing to come out of Italy. 

 

He isn't as good as he made out to be.

[Feed The Yak!!]

Old enough to know that Pirlo has been around for years and only in the past few idiots like you have jumped on some bandwagon thinking he is the best thing to come out of Italy. 

 

He isn't as good as he made out to be.

Like I've said, I've been following his career for quite a while.

[Grandad.]

Funny you should say that, I've got a Milan shirt with his name on it from the 05/06 season. He's always been this good but people only realise when he does it on the international stage.

 

Well done! Suppose you didn't get the 04/05 one from the Champions League final where he was over run by Gerrard, Alonso and Hamman have you? Yeah remember that final? Pirlo did absolutely nothing except put a free kick in (miss kicked may I add) which Maldini scored from.. Tried his stupid dinked penalty and missed. 

 

I've got a Beckham 1998 shirt, it's amazing what you can get off Ebay, what a ridiculous point to make. 

[Feed The Yak!!]

Well done! Suppose you didn't get the 04/05 one from the Champions League final where he was over run by Gerrard, Alonso and Hamman have you? Yeah remember that final? Pirlo did absolutely nothing except put a free kick in (miss kicked may I add) which Maldini scored from.. Tried his stupid dinked penalty and missed. 

 

I've got a Beckham 1998 shirt, it's amazing what you can get off Ebay, what a ridiculous point to make. 

I obviously bought it while it was out   

How is it ridiculous? You tried to make out that I've jumped on a bandwagon, which simply isn't true.

[Guest Sharpe's Fox]

I guess we will find out who is better on Saturday/Sunday, since both will be playing in the same game, the same position and in the same conditions.

[AdamN]

People are saying Gerrard is shit compared to Pirlo yet can't argue with the facts I posted this morning.. 30 starts, 6 assists and 4 goals for a playmaker?!

 

Not gonna take sides here, because I honestly don't know who's better, but Pirlo averaged more passes, key passes, accurate crosses, through balls and long balls and had a higher pass completion rate than Gerrard last season. It's not the most outlandish idea to suggest that he may be better than Gerrard, nor would it be to suggest that Gerrard is better. They're both excellent players, so it's certainly not as black and white as "he only got 4 goals, playmaker my arse!"

[l444ry]

Gerrard or Pirlo?  Not even an argument in my opinion. They are obviously both outstanding players. Bet you this much though, England will be paying more attention to Pirlo tactically than Italy will be of Gerrard. That says it all for me!

[Samilktray]

Sick of hearing about Pirlo. Hopefully 1 of our players goes through him in the opening 10 and he goes off.

[Guest ttfn]

Where were all these Pirlo fans in 2006 when Italy won the World Cup, or when AC won the Champions League in 2007? He wasn't this adored man then. 

 

It's become a big thing in recent years, mainly since his tearing apart of England 2 years ago in a 0-0 draw how good he is and how much better he is than everyone else. 

 

As much as I think your assertion that Pirlo wouldn't get in our side is pretty blinkered, I have to agree with this.

There has been an endless love-in with Pirlo since that Euro 2012 game in this country and I'm not sure it is particularly deserved.

 

Basically I think there is a tendency to overrate Pirlo and underrate Gerrard in equal measure, but we're talking about Gerrard or Pirlo in a position that Pirlo has been playing for 10 years and Gerrard for 10 minutes. It is not being disparaging towards Gerrard to say that Pirlo would get in the side ahead of him.

[Craig]

Does it even matter?

[Fez of Mahrez]

Pirlo KO in the 8th.

[Dan]

I just hope for Mark's sake that he never meets Mina Rzouki.

 

 

To be fair I think anyone could make him look stupid. What a cretin.

[fox123]

I earlier in the week went for a patriotic win, since thinking about it, I've changed my mind.

 

Let's look at the facts here: it's going to be rather hot in Manaus, too hot for sprinting around like mad men, but OK for strolling around passing the ball about slowly. A defeat in the first game spells bad news, so are the naturally cautious Italians going to take risks any more than the pragmatic Hodgson will? I don't think so. I think what we're likely to see is a slow paced game with both sides quite content to get a point on the board. A repeat of the last game, 0-0, but with England at least learning to keep Pirlo quiet would be a good result all round. 

[Dan]

Collymore upset a few on talksport last night with him raising the debate as to where Wayne Rooney fits in to this team on merit alone, which blatantly he doesn't. However, people who take the moral high ground about players should only be picked on form and form alone is very naive. Any quality player who suffers a slump would never get over it if they weren't picked, how could they?

 

I don't necessarily question Rooney's form, I question his talent. His game has changed and that's not form or a confidence problem, it's something bigger. Rooney has only ever been a world class player when he could beat a man and run at teams. He's a poor passer of the ball by large and his finishing is at it's most lethal when he's gone past players and space has opened up or when he's playing as a poacher, a penalty box striker which I think is where his future should be for club and country.

 

I simply don't rate him as a number 10 player anymore, he's not skilfull enough.

 

Will Hodgson play him there this summer? I doubt it otherwise he'd have tried him there in the friendlies, so we've got to accomodate him behind Sturridge and hope for the best. Thankfully we've some serious talent in Sterling, Lallana, The Ox and Barkley that all is not lost. Perhaps space can be made for Wayne to make an impact but the moment he starts dropping in to space that our deep lying central midfield are supposed to be means we're in for a battle of a game that will lack fluency and movement. Rooney is a hinderence in this part of the pitch, it's beggers belief how Hodgson let's him get away with it. 

 

Play him off the shoulder of Sturridge with the instructions to get in to the channels and we'll be far more effective, or bench the lad.

 

I am convinced Sterling will start on Saturday, everything points towards it for me. Well logically it does but there's still that nagging doubt I have over Roy where he'll be too cautious. We lack ideas regularly when we shouldn't and therefore the most gifted player in terms of pace and trickery, fearlessness and form must start.

 

The rest of the team kind of picks itself right now, with the likes of Barkley, Wilshere and Lambert there to make an impression when given the chance and as the tournament progresses then they may force themselves in from the start of games.

 

I'm absolutely delighted that The Ox is back in training, he'd be one of the first on the teamsheet for me, he's got everything. I wouldn't rule him out making a cameo on Saturday, I think he's the one that could be our star this summer. There's several candidates and Sterling and Barkley have had stonking seasons but Ox is a big game player and has proven already for England that he raises his game even further, I am desperate for him to be back in the mix.