England V Italy

[Beliall]

if we dropped him for a few games, he will come on and play better . 

[Ric Flair]

cue rooney going on to win the golden boot and have the tournament of his life, 

 

 

 

 

 

hopefully

 

 

if we dropped him for a few games, he will come on and play better . 

 

That would only happen if we were to play him in his best role as an out and out striker and he was told under no uncertain terms that he isn't to drop deep and make us lose our shape. He isn't a creative midfielder, he's a finisher. THAT IS IT.

[GingerrrFox]

Grandad I get you're a Liverpool fan etc etc but you have to be on a wind up saying you wouldn't have Pirlo over Gerrard? Pirlo re-invented the position that Gerrard is now trying to copy, Pirlo is the ultimate regista. In 20 years time when they ask when did the deep lying playmaker become effective and in fashion? Do you know what they will show them? A compilation video of Pirlo pulling the strings with a big **** off "Viva Italia" sign in the background.

[purpleronnie]

I just hope Gerrards groin strain doesn't slow him down  , it would be like watching him on rewind.

[Grandad.]

Grandad I get you're a Liverpool fan etc etc but you have to be on a wind up saying you wouldn't have Pirlo over Gerrard? Pirlo re-invented the position that Gerrard is now trying to copy, Pirlo is the ultimate regista. In 20 years time when they ask when did the deep lying playmaker become effective and in fashion? Do you know what they will show them? A compilation video of Pirlo pulling the strings with a big **** off "Viva Italia" sign in the background.

 

Re inventing a position doesn't give you some accolade as the best in that position, and for a start he didn't even re-invent the position, Xabi Alonso has played his whole career from the position. 

 

Pirlo is not better than Steven Gerrard and if you ever chose Pirlo over Gerrard then you really should stop watching football and go down Welford Road. 

 

Even AKCJ (my nemesis on here) said he would have Gerrard in his side over Pirlo. 

 

There is being a play maker and controlling the game in Serie A and there is doing it in the Premier League. For being a playmaker in an effective fashion like Pirlo is apparently doing so then his stats of 30 starts, 6 assists and 4 goals look pretty poor compared to Gerrard's 33 starts, 13 assists and 13 goals doesn't it, from the exact same position.. 

 

Get in the bin. 

 

Oh wait, we only remember Pirlo from a game 2 years ago where he tore England apart in a 0-0 draw, silly me.. 

[kingcarr21]

Grandad I get you're a Liverpool fan etc etc but you have to be on a wind up saying you wouldn't have Pirlo over Gerrard? Pirlo re-invented the position that Gerrard is now trying to copy, Pirlo is the ultimate regista. In 20 years time when they ask when did the deep lying playmaker become effective and in fashion? Do you know what they will show them? A compilation video of Pirlo pulling the strings with a big **** off "Viva Italia" sign in the background.

Seriously???

 

In 20 years time nobody is going to answer the question 'When did the deep lying playmaker become effective' with a player from Serie A. Piss poor league. Gerrard over Pirlo all day long.

[C-man]

Seriously???

In 20 years time nobody is going to answer the question 'When did the deep lying playmaker become effective' with a player from Serie A. Piss poor league. Gerrard over Pirlo all day long.

If it hasn't already it will soon become impossible to argue the case of any player outside the Premier League. What a horrificly narrow-minded state of affairs.

[NewburyFox]

Buzzing for this game. I'll be in Paris - anybody know any English pubs there? Obviously it will be on in most places but it would be great to be surrounded by England fans.

As for the team, I'd play:

Hart

Johnson-Cahill-Jag-Baines

Gerrard-Henderson

Sterling-Rooney-Lallana

Sturridge

If Rooney isn't performing then Barkley on, but I think I'd just plump for Rooney to start. I can see Roy starting Milner and Welbeck and I hope to God that he doesn't. These Italians are nothing special and we need to take the game to them, rather than sitting back and letting Pirlo dictate.

[Bert]

If it hasn't already it will soon become impossible to argue the case of any player outside the Premier League. What a horrificly narrow-minded state of affairs.

You could also counter this with the fact the some people massively over-rate other players because they don't want to be seen as a sheep/wanting to be different because it's apparently cool, and rimming the premier league.

Anyway, onto Rooney. You can't win with him, he starts people moan we don't win it's already going to be his fault. I don't understand why even when a player is picked a lot of our fans still won't get behind him? Again for me that's another instance of people trying to be different for the sake of being so.

He doesn't start and we don't win, people will moan that it was because Rooney didn't start.

I would start him on Saturday (it's inevitable anyway) but if he's playing poor, drag him and then consider not starting him the game after. Regardless of what others think, if Italy see Rooney not starting it's a massive psychological boost to them before the games even started.

[fox123]

Buzzing for this game. I'll be in Paris - anybody know any English pubs there? Obviously it will be on in most places but it would be great to be surrounded by England fans.

As for the team, I'd play:

Hart

Johnson-Cahill-Jag-Baines

Gerrard-Henderson

Sterling-Rooney-Lallana

Sturridge

If Rooney isn't performing then Barkley on, but I think I'd just plump for Rooney to start. I can see Roy starting Milner and Welbeck and I hope to God that he doesn't. These Italians are nothing special and we need to take the game to them, rather than sitting back and letting Pirlo dictate.

I went to the French Derby a couple of years ago and went to The Bombardier which was a decent pub.

 

Can imagine there being quite a lot of English fans in there.

 

http://www.bombardierpub.fr/about-us

[Manwell Pablo]

Serie A might not be what it used to be but I think it's safe to say it's not "piss poor"

 

Probably still the 4th best in Europe over all. 

[C-man]

You could also counter this with the fact the some people massively over-rate other players because they don't want to be seen as a sheep/wanting to be different because it's apparently cool, and rimming the premier league.

 

I'm not sure that happens? I can't think of any examples?

 

Before TV got hold of football, some foreign players may have been overrated because of the mystique surrounding them. Watching them was a once in every four years experience and so if players performed at a World Cup they were loved and revered. That can't happen now because of the accessibility to every major league in the world. If someone says they rate a player, the chances are they rate them because a) the player is of high quality or b) they don't understand football and they are basing their opinion on a five minute YouTube highlight reel.

 

I very much doubt people say 'Oh Pirlo, what a great player' to look cool or because they are anti-PL.

[GingerrrFox]

I'd rather have a retired Paul Scholes than Steven Gerrard playing the position he does for England. That's how overrated Gerrard is now. When he was the box to box all action midfielder he was easily one of the best in Europe, if not the world. Now he's changed his game, he's average at world level.

[Stadt]

Gerrard in his prime as a box-to-box player was one of the most complete midfield players ever. But I think Pirlo is the more effective player in the role.

[foxfanazer]

I have to agree. Tries too many Hollywood passes which ultimately results in a breakdown of our play. Unbelievable player in his prime though no doubt

[Bert]

*Awaits Grandad*

[Feed The Yak!!]

For the final time, you do realise that game in 2012 finished 0-0 don't you? 

 

Personally I wouldn't brag and say a team 'absolutely ran' a game in a 0-0 draw, doesn't make you look that good.. In my eyes anyway. 

 

England had a chance early on where Buffon made a fantastic save from Glen Johnson, so if it wasn't for him they would of been 1-0 down very early on, Hart never kept England in the game, Italy's wayward shooting was terrible. 

 

 

I did mean 'if they don't start'.

 

----

 

Pirlo wouldn't get in for England, there is strolling round and picking holes in Serie A and there is doing so in the Premier League, Serie A is cat piss. 

 

30 games, 4 goals and 6 assists? Really, that is some world class midfielder who is controlling games in a team that strolled Seria A? **** off. He is an absolute myth, and if England are worried about him then that is worrying. 

 

He wouldn't get in ahead of Steven Gerrard, I'm sorry but he wouldn't and yes, that is the only position he could take in the England side. 

Yeah that's what I thought, you've looked at stats because you don't watch him. If you honestly think that Gerrard is a more beneficial player to a team than Pirlo then there's really no point in continuing this. Hopefully they don't man mark the living shit out of him on Saturday and he can prove how ridiculous your suggestion is.

[Grandad.]

*Awaits Grandad*

These clowns aren't worth arguing with, Gerrard is overrated?! lol

People are saying Gerrard is shit compared to Pirlo yet can't argue with the facts I posted this morning.. 30 starts, 6 assists and 4 goals for a playmaker?!

Any freak who would rather a retired Paul Scholes over Steven Gerrard needs to not only have a look at their footballing opinion but have a trip to the doctors, sectioning is the next step!

Manwell mate, telling me Serie A is the 4th best league in Europe is not going to help me think different of it. Poor League.

[Grandad.]

Pirlo over Gerrard?! lol

Imagine being that ****ing stupid.. It's clearly the 'in' thing to suck a player off who can grow a cool beard and make 6 assists in 30 games and be a 'playmaker'..

[foxfanazer]

These clowns aren't worth arguing with, Gerrard is overrated?! lol

People are saying Gerrard is shit compared to Pirlo yet can't argue with the facts I posted this morning.. 30 starts, 6 assists and 4 goals for a playmaker?!

Any freak who would rather a retired Paul Scholes over Steven Gerrard needs to not only have a look at their footballing opinion but have a trip to the doctors, sectioning is the next step!

Manwell mate, telling me Serie A is the 4th best league in Europe is not going to help me think different of it. Poor League.

I didn't say he was overrated just that he is far less effective now IMO. Would still easily be in my starting 11 on saturday

[Grandad.]

Jordan Henderson made more goals than Pirlo this season!!

lol

Let that sink in, that shit (apparently) footballer Jordan Henderson assisted more goals than Andrea Pirlo.

[ScouseFox]

i just don't get why we're so scared of them. i'm seeing people say we should play rooney or welbeck to hassle pirlo and try and keep him out the game. do you think they're sat in the italian dressing room telling balotelli to forget about scoring and just make sure gerrard can't nail a pass every now an then?! 

 

we need to ignore them, play our own free flowing game with our best team and we'll win comfortably. fúck this playing to stop them, playing our game will stop them well enough because we'll win. 

[foxfanazer]

i just don't get why we're so scared of them. i'm seeing people say we should play rooney or welbeck to hassle pirlo and try and keep him out the game. do you think they're sat in the italian dressing room telling balotelli to forget about scoring and just make sure gerrard can't nail a pass every now an then?!

we need to ignore them, play our own free flowing game with our best team and we'll win comfortably. fúck this playing to stop them, playing our game will stop them well enough because we'll win.

Agreed

[C-man]

Jordan Henderson made more goals than Pirlo this season!!

lol

Let that sink in, that shit (apparently) footballer Jordan Henderson assisted more goals than Andrea Pirlo.

 

Regardless of whether you are right or wrong about Gerrard being better than Pirlo (past, present or future) simply looking at goals and assists is way too naive a method of determining who is a better player, particularly when one player has taken and scored a lot of penalties.

 

Otherwise you could argue that Modric and Xavi are worse than Jordan Henderson and I'm sure you would tell whoever suggested that to 'get in the bin'.

[Manwell Pablo]

These clowns aren't worth arguing with, Gerrard is overrated?! lol

People are saying Gerrard is shit compared to Pirlo yet can't argue with the facts I posted this morning.. 30 starts, 6 assists and 4 goals for a playmaker?!

Any freak who would rather a retired Paul Scholes over Steven Gerrard needs to not only have a look at their footballing opinion but have a trip to the doctors, sectioning is the next step!

Manwell mate, telling me Serie A is the 4th best league in Europe is not going to help me think different of it. Poor League.

 

So every league bar England Spain in Germany is poor is what your realistically saying there? A little disrespectful to world football don't you think?

 

I don't disagree with you people talk about Gerrard being better in his prime but Pirlo is 35 now and clearly getting older is going to play a bigger factor for him. I'd have Gerrard at the moment. But comparing Goal scoring and direct assists when discussing  deep lying midfielders isn't really going to prove much especially when one took a lot of penalties and the other didn't.