Midfield minus Esteban

[Manwell Pablo]

Read the thread. Opinion is changing. Just because you don't want to accept you could be wrong, at least some are considering what might be best for the team.

And stop seeking rep points. Its a sign of insecurity.

 

I think you need to seek a humor detector.

 

Not for me and for many others still out performed every midfielder at the club this season.

[ZeljkoKalac1]

I actually started this thread......because I noticed is that Drinkwater took command of the midfield when Esteban was dragged at West Ham.

 

Today he did the same, at times he was the Drinkwater of old, but this time against better players. I'm not for one moment saying Esteban isn't a good player, that would be ludicrous! but I noticed, like today Drinky tried to take command because he was the top man in the middle.....It's a strange situation......maybe this International superstar is making the other player players feel inferior? Just a observation.

[Manwell Pablo]

No coincidence at all IMO. The team looks better when Drinkwater partners James.

 

So your admitting we should play 4-4-2 now. That's a start.

[Col city fan]

So your admitting we should play 4-4-2 now. That's a start.

Don't be daft. We've tried that too haven't we. I think you are right actually. No formation makes us look much better than another. You can't polish a turd. But I've said what I'd have done. Got a strong DM, played him in front of the back four, stuck to it, played it week in week out. Learnt the formation, kept tight, tried to shut out the opposition, play on the counter, hit with pace. What Nige has done is chopped and changed, not got the personnel in to really play a certain way, and clutched at straws. Shame. It could have been so much better than this. And signing Cambiasso has made no meaningful difference. I'm amazed anyone can claim it has. What's that now? 2 points from 39?

Christ...

[Col city fan]

I actually started this thread......because I noticed is that Drinkwater took command of the midfield when Esteban was dragged at West Ham.

Today he did the same, at times he was the Drinkwater of old, but this time against better players. I'm not for one moment saying Esteban isn't a good player, that would be ludicrous! but I noticed, like today Drinky tried to take command because he was the top man in the middle.....It's a strange situation......maybe this International superstar is making the other player players feel inferior? Just a observation.

Then I think you are very perceptive and have possibly hit the nail on the head. Cambiasso shouts a lot and demands the ball. Maybe Drinkwater likes being the main man in the midfield? I know who I'd build a team around. And it ain't an ageing 34 yr old.

[Manwell Pablo]

Don't be daft. We've tried that too haven't we. I think you are right actually. No formation makes us look much better than another. You can't polish a turd. But I've said what I'd have done. Got a strong DM, played him in front of the back four, stuck to it, played it week in week out. Learnt the formation, kept tight, tried to shut out the opposition, play on the counter, hit with pace. What Nige has done is chopped and changed, not got the personnel in to really play a certain way, and clutched at straws. Shame. It could have been so much better than this. And signing Cambiasso has made no meaningful difference. I'm amazed anyone can claim it has. What's that now? 2 points from 39?

Christ...

 

I'll agree chopping and changing is getting us nowhere, but you can't really slate the midfielder who has walked away being the best player in a blue shirt on numerous occasions for it,  the problems lie elsewhere.

 

I happen to think our midfield should be the strongest part of the team Drinkwater today showed what he can and should have been doing from the get go James is good enough and King has done a job whenever called upon. We just let in stupid goals and today was no different. 

[Katy]

We were a million times better today without old Cambers, sad but true.

[Col city fan]

I'll agree chopping and changing is getting us nowhere, but you can't really slate the midfielder who has walked away being the best player in a blue shirt on numerous occasions for it, the problems lie elsewhere.

I happen to think our midfield should be the strongest part of the team Drinkwater today showed what he can and should have been doing from the get go James is good enough and King has done a job whenever called upon. We just let in stupid goals and today was no different.

You miss the bigger picture I think? Maybe you don't and I'm doing you a disservice? I don't really know?

For all that Cambiasso, as an individual footballer, may be our most talented midfielder (and I'm afraid, that's not saying much this season to be fair), what I've always questioned is two things: what his ROLE in our team would be (what is that role Pablo? What is Esteban doing that you can say is meaningful really?) and secondly, whether his presence may actually be detrimental to our TEAM play. That's what I've always questioned. And I still believe this to be the case. It has almost been a case of setting up a team to fit Cambiasso into it, rather than signing a player to fit a system and style of play. I think this is true. Take West Ham. They've signed exactly what they've needed to play a certain way. Song to sit, allowing Nolan and Downing to get forward, Carroll to play off Valencia. It's been system first, player to sign later...the right way round. We've done it the wrong way round.

IMO.

[dayday]

People have short memories,Drinkwater was garbage in the Newcastle,Burnley,Palace and Swansea matches and that's just games I can remember.

To many players have been indifferent,Cambiasso,Ulloa and Mahrez have been the best of a bad bunch!

[theessexfox]

Wouldn't say he's our best CM by a distance, they all have different qualities but at the end of the day they're all at a fairly similar level and we could play any combination to similar results.

[dayday]

Wouldn't say he's our best CM by a distance, they all have different qualities but at the end of the day they're all at a fairly similar level and we could play any combination to similar results.

This

[Manwell Pablo]

You miss the bigger picture I think? Maybe you don't and I'm doing you a disservice? I don't really know?

For all that Cambiasso, as an individual footballer, may be our most talented midfielder (and I'm afraid, that's not saying much this season to be fair), what I've always questioned is two things: what his ROLE in our team would be (what is that role Pablo? What is Esteban doing that you can say is meaningful really?) and secondly, whether his presence may actually be detrimental to our TEAM play. That's what I've always questioned. And I still believe this to be the case.

 

He's been used in numerous different roles and has walked off the pitch as our best player playing in both a three and a two box to box or holding, as I say I don't think our midfield options are the problem and while it was more prominent today than other weeks we've often walked away having deserved more out of the game than we've got. As I said before the game I wouldn't of played him today he's shouldn't be playing him twice in three days at his age and we have depth in midfield and it's important that the other three step up and fight for their place, which thankfully they've done today. Was it because he was absent? I wouldn't be overly convinced about that myself after one game.

 

The bigger picture for me I'm afraid lies away from who plays in our midfield and more with our lack of strengthening at the other two ends of the park and as I've said today is yet another prime example of chances not taken and silly goals going in at the other end. It's frustrating. This is why our director of football was given his marching orders.

[ZeljkoKalac1]

Then I think you are very perceptive and have possibly hit the nail on the head. Cambiasso shouts a lot and demands the ball. Maybe Drinkwater likes being the main man in the midfield? I know who I'd build a team around. And it ain't an ageing 34 yr old.

Totally agree - some people are a little short sighted......I think I've been proven correct by today's performance. However I maybe feel I used the wrong word by saying Esteban make other players fell "inferior", it's more like I think they are afraid of questioning him, and when he isn't there they take a grip of the situation and get on with it.

 

Esteban was a great player and is still a good player , and the others should use him as this and realise they aren't too bad themselves!

[dayday]

He's been used in numerous different roles and has walked off the pitch as our best player playing in both a three and a two box to box or holding, as I say I don't think our midfield options are the problem and while it was more prominent today than other weeks we've often walked away having deserved more out of the game than we've got. As I said before the game I wouldn't of played him today he's shouldn't be playing him twice in three days at his age and we have depth in midfield and it's important that the other three step up and fight for their place, which thankfully they've done today. Was it because he was absent? I wouldn't be overly convinced about that myself after one game.

The bigger picture for me I'm afraid lies away from who plays in our midfield and more with our lack of strengthening at the other two ends of the park and as I've said today is yet another prime example of chances not taken and silly goals going in at the other end. It's frustrating. This is why our director of football was given his marching orders.

Are you sure,bar today's game,the last 20 mins at West Ham and the Liverpool match,we have created next to nothing in all the matches since Man utd

[Manwell Pablo]

Are you sure,bar today's game,the last 20 mins at West Ham and the Liverpool match,we have created next to nothing in all the matches since Man utd

 

We created next to nothing playing 4-5-1 or playing the diamond yes but that's a miss management issue not the players. 

 

Playing 4-4-2 we've scored 2 at QPR 1 at Liverpool and 1 against Villa and missed chances, and let in stupid goals.

[cjslcfc]

Right, I'm going to admit I was wrong. This is not me completely discrediting Cambiasso as an option in our team. He's certainly still a good, talented player but for the first time today I think we looked better without him.

 

Now, I'm not going to blame Nige for barely playing Drinkwater because some of his performances earlier in the season were atrocious and he looked like he had been caught like a rabbit in headlights in the Premier League. However, today he was absolutely brilliant. It was like I'd stepped back in time a year because he absolutely dominated the midfield. He was everywhere making tackles, dictating play and driving us forward, showing that energy and passion we've come to associate with him. Despite being in a 2 with King/James against 3 Spurs CMs it was not visibly apparent that we were outnumbered. Both King and James looked better because of it. It was a shame King had to come off because I thought he was brilliant for most of the first half as well.

 

Anyway, the main point is that our midfield had a lot more energy today and I don't think it's any coincidence that it was because Esteban didn't play. I do think Cambiasso has a big role to play and his experience and quality in possession will be important in certain games. However, where we are at the moment we need more energy and directness throughout the side to pose the sort of threats we did today. Drinkwater gives us that. I'd love them to be able to play together but I think DD needs to be the main man to flourish. If I had a choice between the Drinkwater of today and the Cambiasso I've seen for us then I'd pick DD pretty much every time. Ideally they could form a great partnership but I don't think it will work. A better foil for DD is James/King. 

[Dickov22]

Right, I'm going to admit I was wrong. This is not me completely discrediting Cambiasso as an option in our team. He's certainly still a good, talented player but for the first time today I think we looked better without him.

 

Now, I'm not going to blame Nige for barely playing Drinkwater because some of his performances earlier in the season were atrocious and he looked like he had been caught like a rabbit in headlights in the Premier League. However, today he was absolutely brilliant. It was like I'd stepped back in time a year because he absolutely dominated the midfield. He was everywhere making tackles, dictating play and driving us forward, showing that energy and passion we've come to associate with him. Despite being in a 2 with King/James against 3 Spurs CMs it was not visibly apparent that we were outnumbered. Both King and James looked better because of it. It was a shame King had to come off because I thought he was brilliant for most of the first half as well.

 

Anyway, the main point is that our midfield had a lot more energy today and I don't think it's any coincidence that it was because Esteban didn't play. I do think Cambiasso has a big role to play and his experience and quality in possession will be important in certain games. However, where we are at the moment we need more energy and directness throughout the side to pose the sort of threats we did today. Drinkwater gives us that. I'd love them to be able to play together but I think DD needs to be the main man to flourish. If I had a choice between the Drinkwater of today and the Cambiasso I've seen for us then I'd pick DD pretty much every time. Ideally they could form a great partnership but I don't think it will work. A better foil for DD is James/King. 

Great post

[dayday]

We created next to nothing playing 4-5-1 or playing the diamond yes but that's a miss management issue not the players.

Playing 4-4-2 we've scored 2 at QPR 1 at Liverpool and 1 against Villa and missed chances, and let in stupid goals.

I was all for 4-5-1 because I thought it might suit us better,the reason I was so against 4-4-2 was because of Konchesky and De Leat being liabilities and the centre backs not getting much protection with only 2 centre mids.

Since De Leat has been dropped 4-4-2 has suited us better and will be even better with a decent left back.

In the transfer window we definitely need a strong defensive midfielder,so away from home we get that protection,it's horses for course for me,attacking team at home,more defensive away

[EGBFitness]

Cambiasso is quality, but it's safe to say 90 mins in the premier league isn't for him.

Before his arrival in the summer I raised my concerns signing someone who has been released at his age and for being Fitness in the Italian league- one of the slowest European league. It's safe to say my comments upset a few people.

His touch, reading of the game and passing is quality, it's clear to see why he has played at the top of the game but he can't cope at this level now for 90 mins.

He has been out muscled on numerous occasions and his tracking back is barely visible, soon as a player has skipped past him it still looks as if he is standing still.

I believe if we are going to play Cambiasso then he needs to be a 20 minute man, the full 90 mins is too much at this level! Or we play 4-5-1 to compensate his lack of movement to last the 90 mins, but is playing 4-5-1 or best formation and should we change how we set up for 1 player?

4-5-1 in my opinion we set up too deep, good if we are trying to hold a result or too strong of an opposition but I feel our best formation is 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 however you want to look at it.

Wether the Cambiasso/ Drinkwater-James partnerships doesn't work for whatever reasons too but it is good to see Drinky and James playing well, moving forward and looking more threatening again like last season.

[ScouseFox]

some short memories on here mind. 2 games ago we played the champions of england and cambiasso completely ran the show. he wasn't just our best midfielder he was easily the best midfielder on the pitch (toure, lampard, nasri etc). one game out the team and he's out forever because of one good game for drinkwater. and i'm the extremist  

[cc_star]

some short memories on here mind. 2 games ago we played the champions of england and cambiasso completely ran the show. he wasn't just our best midfielder he was easily the best midfielder on the pitch (toure, lampard, nasri etc). one game out the team and he's out forever because of one good game for drinkwater. and i'm the extremist

King was exceptional that day as was Drinkwater, Cambiasso had a good game too... But I don't see he's worthy of all the ass kissing he gets on here

King can read the game every bit as good, and suits the team's style better.

2nd half... Drinkwater & James with Nugent linking up worked far, far better than any midfield display featuring the over-hyped Argentinian.

We need the energy and momentum the midfield showed after the first 20mins today, it's what we had at the beginning of the season and it's what we'll need to have a hope of picking up points, Cambiasso's little flicks add very little compared to the energy on display today, if we'd had a forward who could finish we'd have ran out 5-2 winners

[Guest ttfn]

Would have thought that it was pretty obvious that the main difference today was having a link between midfield and attack.

Pleased that James and Drinkwater are finally stepping up though, it's about time.

[ScouseFox]

Would have thought that it was pretty obvious that the main difference today was having a link between midfield and attack.

Pleased that James and Drinkwater are finally stepping up though, it's about time.

 

can i do a col and say i always said dropping nuge was the reason we were going to get relegated  

 

:xmastongue:

[Dan LCFC]

can i do a col and say i always said dropping nuge was the reason we were going to get relegated

 

:xmastongue:

 

Only if you mention it every five minutes

[ScouseFox]

ok 3 wins this season all with cambiasso in the team yep next