Moaz al-Kasasbeh

[MooseBreath]

Wish he knocked himself out against the bars to avoid giving those disgusting cowards the sick satisfaction of watching him suffer.

I hope they get wiped out including the death or life imprisonment of every single British person with any link to them, but it's hard to see how 'we' can really do anything, at least over there, without potentially making things worse.

[Guest Bilo]

I'm normally opposed to the death penalty, but ISIS are vermin.

 

We should feel no more remorse about hanging or shooting ISIS scum than we would about catching a rat in a trap.

[Haydos]

Jordanian minister at least means business. Good for them.

 

"Whoever doubted that Jordan’s response would be firm, tough and strong, we will show them the proof, and they will learn that the anger of Jordanians will shake their ranks. The martyred pilot does not belong to a specific tribe, and he is not a son of a specific governorate, but he is the son of all Jordanians, being united as they have been throughout their history."

[MikeyT]

Those ISIS f*****s need eradicating from this Earth as soon as possible. Pure evil with no thought whatsoever for the sanctity of human life. Sooner they have been wiped off the face of the Earth the better. 

[Soar Fox]

I'm normally opposed to the death penalty, but ISIS are vermin.

We should feel no more remorse about hanging or shooting ISIS scum than we would about catching a rat in a trap.

Hanging or shooting them would be to nice and easy.

I'd rather they were killed the same way they are killing people now. Burning, beheading, tortured to death I'd happily watch someone do that to them.

[leicsmac]

Hanging or shooting them would be to nice and easy.

I'd rather they were killed the same way they are killing people now. Burning, beheading, tortured to death I'd happily watch someone do that to them.

 

I'd rather not sink to the levels of barbarity that they have done, but I'd certainly not shed a tear at seeing them dead.

 

Alternatively, why not go Clockwork Orange and keep them alive for a while and see if they can be cured of their ideological hate? Nothing really to lose.

[Vlad the Fox]

We don't need to sink to their levels of barbarity, were 500 years ahead of them and their backwards ideas and beliefs. I'd lock them up for life providing tv and radio in their cells, and then make them listen to and watch everything they find offensive for the rest of their life's. I'd get Warner Brothers to make Tom and Jerry cartoons mocking their warped view of Islam and have female prison staff ruling over them.

[leicsmac]

We don't need to sink to their levels of barbarity, were 500 years ahead of them and their backwards ideas and beliefs. I'd lock them up for life providing tv and radio in their cells, and then make them listen to and watch everything they find offensive for the rest of their life's. I'd get Warner Brothers to make Tom and Jerry cartoons mocking their warped view of Islam and have female prison staff ruling over them.

 

I rather enjoy this idea. Ironic punishment.

[Filbert Walker]

what a lot of effort they put into that 15 mins before hand.

I'm not sure if my head believes whay it's just witnessed. how he has the bottle to just stand there and not give them the pleasure of him begging I don't know.

I know they won't show mercy. but my natural reaction would still be to plead.

not sure I will be travelling that way round the world anytime soon.

us and the yanks and any other right minded nations should show that to our forces and send them out to wipe the ****ers out.

horrible horrible bastards.

just want to go home and cuddle my kids now. what a world they may have to grow up in sadly.

 

 

Your last line just about says it all....our kids / grand kids will live in a world that will not be very nice at all.... sadly the worst is yet to come.... (dirty bomb etc..)

[leicsmac]

Your last line just about says it all....our kids / grand kids will live in a world that will not be very nice at all.... sadly the worst is yet to come.... (dirty bomb etc..)

 

The world has never been nice. I think that right now it's nicer than at any point in recorded history before it.

 

Too many people look at the past through rose tinted spectacles and don't remember the horror and death that came with it all. The 20th Century alone had two wars that encompassed the entire world and cost the lives of hundreds of millions while wrecking the lives of countless more, and most of the latter half was spent under the constant threat of nuclear holocaust. Those days - fingers crossed - have passed.

[bovril]

The world has never been nice. I think that right now it's nicer than at any point in recorded history before it.

 

Too many people look at the past through rose tinted spectacles and don't remember the horror and death that came with it all. The 20th Century alone had two wars that encompassed the entire world and cost the lives of hundreds of millions while wrecking the lives of countless more, and most of the latter half was spent under the constant threat of nuclear holocaust. Those days - fingers crossed - have passed.

 

Certainly. Putting modern weaponry in the mix is something that bothers me. As Filbert says above it's quite likely that this group will try and hit a major city with some kind of dirty bomb.

[leicsmac]

Certainly. Putting modern weaponry in the mix is something that bothers me. As Filbert says above it's quite likely that this group will try and hit a major city with some kind of dirty bomb.

 

ISIS seem (right now) to be content with trying to acheive power and a quasi-state status in their own region, rather than organising terrorist attacks in other countries. While of course they enjoyed the nutters in Pairs and Sydney doing their worst in their name, I'm pretty sure it wasn't part of the overall plan - they were spontaneous events from natives of those countries.

 

To actually claim or manufacture a dirty bomb, and bring it into a major Western country without being detected and set it off is a different kettle of fish entirely. While they're engaging in their brand of psychopathic ideology in the Middle East, such a project is probably something they don't have the manpower or resources for right now.

 

Of course, if they get properly entrenched and stable...then things might be different.

[Bellend Sebastian]

I thought this was an interesting piece. It was written before we heard about that poor sod getting torched, but the thrust still holds true, I think.  The bloke that wrote it is an Israeli military historian, apparently.  I'm not saying I agree completely with what he says, but I think he's right in that you have to choose your responses to provocation very carefully.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jan/31/terrorism-spectacle-how-states-respond-yuval-noah-harari-sapiens

[ADK]

I still think Russia is one of the biggest threats.

[Fox92]

The World will never be a peaceful place and if something does end the World it'll probably be the human race.

[Guest MattP]

Jordanian minister at least means business. Good for them.

 

"Whoever doubted that Jordan’s response would be firm, tough and strong, we will show them the proof, and they will learn that the anger of Jordanians will shake their ranks. The martyred pilot does not belong to a specific tribe, and he is not a son of a specific governorate, but he is the son of all Jordanians, being united as they have been throughout their history."

 

It was great to hear, the complete opposite to Obama, Cameron, Hollande etc

 

We don't need to sink to their levels of barbarity, were 500 years ahead of them and their backwards ideas and beliefs. I'd lock them up for life providing tv and radio in their cells, and then make them listen to and watch everything they find offensive for the rest of their life's. I'd get Warner Brothers to make Tom and Jerry cartoons mocking their warped view of Islam and have female prison staff ruling over them.

 

I usually agree with your posts but this really is a terrible idea for so many reasons.

 

By doing this you make ISIS a stronger force, as soon as you start taking prisoners you give them a target for negotiation, you increase the likelihood of these attacks, you increase the chances of people being kidnapped for them to use as bait. You give the leaders in that organisation more power and an even bigger reason to carry out the hideous things they do.

 

ISIS actually made a right balls up here, Jordon was prepared to release the two prisoners they were waiting to execute in exchange for the pilot. It's only because ISIS jumped the gun (the video is now thought to be filmed around New Year) and couldn't provide  proof he was still alive that they couldn't complete the transaction.

 

This sort of brutality can only be met and dealt with by brutality, as much as we want to believe it can Western liberal values cannot beat ISIS, there was a lot of sympathy for the Nazis in Britain during the war years and we had barely a defector, the reason for that was they knew execution awaited if they did, you made your choice and that was it, had the punishment for it been watching TV cartoons of Warner Bros mocking Hitler I doubt we would have had a similar outcome. Nazi war criminals were hung, that was the only language they understood, it's also the only language ISIS understand, they would be pissing themselves if they knew we were talking about giving them TV and Radio as 'punishment'.

 

We're probably going to have troops on the ground here, when we have a few of our soldiers/aid workers/red cross captured and ISIS then start sending us videos of them waiting to be burned alive (or whatever worse they will soon think of I'm sure) unless we release the people we have locked up you have a serious decision to make then, I doubt the British public have much appetite to watch these things happen to Jordianians let alone their own people.

 

The biggest reason though is one of the biggest growing problems we have, prison is now widely considered the biggest breeding ground for young muslims (the prison Muslim pop is staggeringly just short of 20%) turning towards extremism and being radicalised, to fill prisons with these sort of people just strikes me as nothing short of madness.

 

One of Lee Rigby's killer's (Adebalajo) is already widely reported to have indoctrinated people inside (as was he), a man we could have killed and instead he's alive for the next 50 years inside to get to as many vulnerable young Muslims as possible, we can't even put him in solitary confinement to stop him due to his human rights. It's a laughable situation we have got ourselves into and until it changes we should expect more radical young Muslims turning towards this, more groups like ISIS springing up and more chaos in the World.

 

I keep hearing about how the only way to defeat these people is 'education' - when you look back in history no group like this has ever been beaten by 'education', they have all been beaten by good people having to resort to taking absolutely no mercy.

 

The world has never been nice. I think that right now it's nicer than at any point in recorded history before it.

 

Victorian era before the war was very stable and peaceful.

[Rocket-Ron]

 

 

 

Victorian era before the war was very stable and peaceful.

Crimea, Indian rebellion, Suez.

The list goes on

[leicsmac]

It was great to hear, the complete opposite to Obama, Cameron, Hollande etc

 

 

I usually agree with your posts but this really is a terrible idea for so many reasons.

 

By doing this you make ISIS a stronger force, as soon as you start taking prisoners you give them a target for negotiation, you increase the likelihood of these attacks, you increase the chances of people being kidnapped for them to use as bait. You give the leaders in that organisation more power and an even bigger reason to carry out the hideous things they do.

 

ISIS actually made a right balls up here, Jordon was prepared to release the two prisoners they were waiting to execute in exchange for the pilot. It's only because ISIS jumped the gun (the video is now thought to be filmed around New Year) and couldn't provide  proof he was still alive that they couldn't complete the transaction.

 

This sort of brutality can only be met and dealt with by brutality, as much as we want to believe it can Western liberal values cannot beat ISIS, there was a lot of sympathy for the Nazis in Britain during the war years and we had barely a defector, the reason for that was they knew execution awaited if they did, you made your choice and that was it, had the punishment for it been watching TV cartoons of Warner Bros mocking Hitler I doubt we would have had a similar outcome. Nazi war criminals were hung, that was the only language they understood, it's also the only language ISIS understand, they would be pissing themselves if they knew we were talking about giving them TV and Radio as 'punishment'.

 

We're probably going to have troops on the ground here, when we have a few of our soldiers/aid workers/red cross captured and ISIS then start sending us videos of them waiting to be burned alive (or whatever worse they will soon think of I'm sure) unless we release the people we have locked up you have a serious decision to make then, I doubt the British public have much appetite to watch these things happen to Jordianians let alone their own people.

 

The biggest reason though is one of the biggest growing problems we have, prison is now widely considered the biggest breeding ground for young muslims (the prison Muslim pop is staggeringly just short of 20%) turning towards extremism and being radicalised, to fill prisons with these sort of people just strikes me as nothing short of madness.

 

One of Lee Rigby's killer's (Adebalajo) is already widely reported to have indoctrinated people inside (as was he), a man we could have killed and instead he's alive for the next 50 years inside to get to as many vulnerable young Muslims as possible, we can't even put him in solitary confinement to stop him due to his human rights. It's a laughable situation we have got ourselves into and until it changes we should expect more radical young Muslims turning towards this, more groups like ISIS springing up and more chaos in the World.

 

I keep hearing about how the only way to defeat these people is 'education' - when you look back in history no group like this has ever been beaten by 'education', they have all been beaten by good people having to resort to taking absolutely no mercy.

 

 

Victorian era before the war was very stable and peaceful.

 

Anglo-Sudan War. Boer War (two, in fact). Anglo-Zulu War. Boxer Rebellion. Crimean War.

 

And that's the tip of the iceberg and some of the ones we were involved in. Goodness only knows how many other smaller wars and put-down rebellions there were besides, as well as other nations falling out.

 

I'm sorry Matt, but that is the rose-tinted thinking I was talking about.

[Guest MattP]

Crimea, Indian rebellion, Suez.

The list goes on

 

Anglo-Sudan War. Boer War (two, in fact). Anglo-Zulu War. Boxer Rebellion. Crimean War.

 

And that's the tip of the iceberg and some of the ones we were involved in. Goodness only knows how many other smaller wars and put-down rebellions there were besides, as well as other nations falling out.

 

I'm sorry Matt, but that is the rose-tinted thinking I was talking about.

 

In terms of casualties these wars are totally small fry to anything now. (Crimea apart)

 

It's not rose tints, it's recognising the size of war in comparison to what it is now. To put it into perspective, the total casualty for the Syrian civil war just abouts exceeds all those put together, let alone thinking about Afghanistan, Iraq, Russia, Checyn, Africa, Palestine, Colombia, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Somalia, Phillipines, Tibet, Yemen, Mexico and all the other countries dealing with insurgancies.

 

The World is far more fcuked up now than it was 105 years ago.

[leicsmac]

In terms of casualties these wars are totally small fry to anything now. (Crimea apart)

 

It's not rose tints, it's recognising the size of war in comparison to what it is now. To put it into perspective, the total casualty for the Syrian civil war just abouts exceeds all those put together, let alone thinking about Afghanistan, Iraq, Russia, Checyn, Africa, Palestine, Colombia, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Somalia, Phillipines, Tibet, Yemen, Mexico and all the other countries dealing with insurgancies.

 

The World is far more fcuked up now than it was 105 years ago.

 

I'm pretty sure the number of deaths as a percentage of world population being killed in wars and insurgencies was higher then than it is now. The only thing that has changed is the population has boomed as a result of the advancement of medical science (another reason why the world is better today) and we've developed faster and more widespread ways to kill each other.

 

Do you really think that ideological extremism wasn't about and being used a century ago, or it was happening on a much lower scale? The sheer number of wars fought in the late 19th Century is an argument against that - no matter how few people died in them by comparison to today. Religion and the intolerance that came from the governance controlled by was an even more massive factor then - it still is now, but the world is a damn sight more secular now than it was a hundred years ago.

 

Truth be told, I think the only reason there hasn't been a true world war since 1945 is purely because the powers that be know it would result in the destruction of civilisation through nuclear holocaust. Also I'm pretty sure it's stuck in human nature for people to want to dominate and kill other people...but I think that problem is much less prounounced in everyday life for a greater number of people now than it was then. 

[Guest MattP]

I'm pretty sure the number of deaths as a percentage of world population being killed in wars and insurgencies was higher then than it is now. The only thing that has changed is the population has boomed as a result of the advancement of medical science (another reason why the world is better today) and we've developed faster and more widespread ways to kill each other.

 

Do you really think that ideological extremism wasn't about and being used a century ago, or it was happening on a much lower scale? The sheer number of wars fought in the late 19th Century is an argument against that - no matter how few people died in them by comparison to today. Religion and the intolerance that came from the governance controlled by was an even more massive factor then - it still is now, but the world is a damn sight more secular now than it was a hundred years ago.

 

Truth be told, I think the only reason there hasn't been a true world war since 1945 is purely because the powers that be know it would result in the destruction of civilisation through nuclear holocaust. Also I'm pretty sure it's stuck in human nature for people to want to dominate and kill other people...but I think that problem is much less prounounced in everyday life for a greater number of people now than it was then. 

 

I don't think there is any way to work that out that wouldn't take us days but I don't think there would be too much a difference. It would be impossible as many die as a result of war from other things such as famine etc in this century that partly comes from the expansion of global population.

 

I don't know why you've mentioned anything from the second paragraph there towards me? On the last page I said ideological extremism had been around for at least 1,400 years and it's a lot longer than that in reality. (Using your expanding population argument though the World would be more religious these days in terms of number)

[leicsmac]

I don't think there is any way to work that out that wouldn't take us days but I don't think there would be too much a difference. It would be impossible as many die as a result of war from other things such as famine etc in this century that partly comes from the expansion of global population.

 

I don't know why you've mentioned anything from the second paragraph there towards me? On the last page I said ideological extremism had been around for at least 1,400 years and it's a lot longer than that in reality. (Using your expanding population argument though the World would be more religious these days in terms of number)

 

Sorry, I thought that when you said the late Victorian era was stable and peaceful you meaning was that the kind of ideological extremism that led to wars wasn't as much a factor then as it is now. Apologies if I misunderstood. 

 

If that is indeed your point, I think that's where we would disagree.

[Guest MattP]

Sorry, I thought that when you said the late Victorian era was stable and peaceful you meaning was that the kind of ideological extremism that led to wars wasn't as much a factor then as it is now. Apologies if I misunderstood. 

 

If that is indeed your point, I think that's where we would disagree.

 

Not at all, there has probably been ideoligical extremism about since man began to speak. Although we seem far less reluctant to confront it these days and it certainly in my opinion posseses as much danger as it ever has in this day and age.

[leicsmac]

Not at all, there has probably been ideoligical extremism about since man began to speak. Although we seem far less reluctant to confront it these days and it certainly in my opinion posseses as much danger as it ever has in this day and age.

 

I think you meant far more reluctant to confront it, right?

 

I think that the reluctance is based on a bigger want to exhaust all other options before committing to killing a lot of people these days, because wars are expensive both in monetary as well as human cost (except to certain groups of people, of course). As you said, the increased scale means increased cost. It's a somewhat cynical way of looking at it (you'd like to believe that humans just don't want to kill each other as much as they once did but I doubt that's the case) but I think it's pretty accurate. 

 

Ideological nutjobbery is still very much a threat, but it's not a monolithic one as it has been in the past. As I have said before, ISIS are nasty but if there was a multilateral operation from a number of nations they'd last a couple of months, tops. There have been far, far greater threats to the world in the past.

[The Year Of The Fox]

I think you meant far more reluctant to confront it, right?

 

I think that the reluctance is based on a bigger want to exhaust all other options before committing to killing a lot of people these days, because wars are expensive both in monetary as well as human cost (except to certain groups of people, of course). As you said, the increased scale means increased cost. It's a somewhat cynical way of looking at it (you'd like to believe that humans just don't want to kill each other as much as they once did but I doubt that's the case) but I think it's pretty accurate. 

 

Ideological nutjobbery is still very much a threat, but it's not a monolithic one as it has been in the past. As I have said before, ISIS are nasty but if there was a multilateral operation from a number of nations they'd last a couple of months, tops. There have been far, far greater threats to the world in the past.

Numerically maybe- WW2 as an example. That though was based on Nazi ideology for a 'master race' not religion.

With ISIS and any other terrorist organisation, how can you scare them with the threat (and action) of an all out offense when they see being killed as martyrdom? You can't beat terrorists in this way. Kill one, another ten emerge.