Vlad the Fox Posted 5 February 2015 Posted 5 February 2015 The problem is that the world is a much smaller place now than even a few decades ago. These people believe in ideals and beliefs that are medievil in contrast to civilised society. The danger comes with technology available to them, if they secure and establish a state in which they can indoctrinate people in their beliefs and they have a nation, they then have a base to expand from and possibly, in the future, a base from which to launch a much wider and much more terrible war. Therefore stopping this now would be a lot easier than waiting. We could have had bin laden a few months after the twin towers yet the order was never given to go in after him, as a result it took years and further atrocities. We should have started a much more vigorous rebuilding programme in the areas of conflict. Electricity, water, ensured there was industry to supply jobs which would then allow these communities to take the mantle and progress themselves and therefore hopefully prevent the situation were the disillusioned slip into these organisations because it offers them something else. It would cost money but were is it better spent?
leicsmac Posted 5 February 2015 Posted 5 February 2015 Numerically maybe- WW2 as an example. That though was based on Nazi ideology for a 'master race' not religion. With ISIS and any other terrorist organisation, how can you scare them with the threat (and action) of an all out offense when they see being killed as martyrdom? You can't beat terrorists in this way. Kill one, another ten emerge. The idea of an enemy who is perfectly willing to die because they believe in some kind of perfect afterlife is hardly new either, though. Wars - many, many wars have been fought in the past between two sides who fully believed they were going to a better place when they died. It didn't change the way they were fought, and they way they were killed. The problem is that the world is a much smaller place now than even a few decades ago. These people believe in ideals and beliefs that are medievil in contrast to civilised society. The danger comes with technology available to them, if they secure and establish a state in which they can indoctrinate people in their beliefs and they have a nation, they then have a base to expand from and possibly, in the future, a base from which to launch a much wider and much more terrible war. Therefore stopping this now would be a lot easier than waiting. We could have had bin laden a few months after the twin towers yet the order was never given to go in after him, as a result it took years and further atrocities. We should have started a much more vigorous rebuilding programme in the areas of conflict. Electricity, water, ensured there was industry to supply jobs which would then allow these communities to take the mantle and progress themselves and therefore hopefully prevent the situation were the disillusioned slip into these organisations because it offers them something else. It would cost money but were is it better spent? Agree that people using technology in order to fuel a return to barbarity is a threat and one that should be purged before it has the chance to grow bigger, as you say.
Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot Posted 5 February 2015 Posted 5 February 2015 MattP, the 20% Muslim prison stat is completely skewed, an awful lot of people declare themselves Muslim when entering/in prison because as a Muslim you have dietary requirements and other benefits that legally have to be met.
broughtonblue Posted 5 February 2015 Posted 5 February 2015 It was great to hear, the complete opposite to Obama, Cameron, Hollande etc I usually agree with your posts but this really is a terrible idea for so many reasons. By doing this you make ISIS a stronger force, as soon as you start taking prisoners you give them a target for negotiation, you increase the likelihood of these attacks, you increase the chances of people being kidnapped for them to use as bait. You give the leaders in that organisation more power and an even bigger reason to carry out the hideous things they do. ISIS actually made a right balls up here, Jordon was prepared to release the two prisoners they were waiting to execute in exchange for the pilot. It's only because ISIS jumped the gun (the video is now thought to be filmed around New Year) and couldn't provide proof he was still alive that they couldn't complete the transaction. This sort of brutality can only be met and dealt with by brutality, as much as we want to believe it can Western liberal values cannot beat ISIS, there was a lot of sympathy for the Nazis in Britain during the war years and we had barely a defector, the reason for that was they knew execution awaited if they did, you made your choice and that was it, had the punishment for it been watching TV cartoons of Warner Bros mocking Hitler I doubt we would have had a similar outcome. Nazi war criminals were hung, that was the only language they understood, it's also the only language ISIS understand, they would be pissing themselves if they knew we were talking about giving them TV and Radio as 'punishment'. We're probably going to have troops on the ground here, when we have a few of our soldiers/aid workers/red cross captured and ISIS then start sending us videos of them waiting to be burned alive (or whatever worse they will soon think of I'm sure) unless we release the people we have locked up you have a serious decision to make then, I doubt the British public have much appetite to watch these things happen to Jordianians let alone their own people. The biggest reason though is one of the biggest growing problems we have, prison is now widely considered the biggest breeding ground for young muslims (the prison Muslim pop is staggeringly just short of 20%) turning towards extremism and being radicalised, to fill prisons with these sort of people just strikes me as nothing short of madness. One of Lee Rigby's killer's (Adebalajo) is already widely reported to have indoctrinated people inside (as was he), a man we could have killed and instead he's alive for the next 50 years inside to get to as many vulnerable young Muslims as possible, we can't even put him in solitary confinement to stop him due to his human rights. It's a laughable situation we have got ourselves into and until it changes we should expect more radical young Muslims turning towards this, more groups like ISIS springing up and more chaos in the World. I keep hearing about how the only way to defeat these people is 'education' - when you look back in history no group like this has ever been beaten by 'education', they have all been beaten by good people having to resort to taking absolutely no mercy. Victorian era before the war was very stable and peaceful. Good post
Mike Oxlong Posted 5 February 2015 Posted 5 February 2015 MattP, the 20% Muslim prison stat is completely skewed, an awful lot of people declare themselves Muslim when entering/in prison because as a Muslim you have dietary requirements and other benefits that legally have to be met. You'll have to give the bacon sarnies a miss though.
Buce Posted 5 February 2015 Posted 5 February 2015 You'll have to give the bacon sarnies a miss though. There's no ham in Mohammed. No, wait...
reynard Posted 6 February 2015 Posted 6 February 2015 O Victorian era before the war was very stable and peaceful. But it was also full of bigotry, poverty, inequality, crime poor life expectancy incurable diseases. Also let's not forget the Crimean War, the Zulu War, the Boer War the American Civil war, the second Afghan war. Infact the list is pretty endless. People should reassure their kids in this country that they have a real chance to make something of their lives. It doesn't matter what their ethnicity is or theri gender or sexuality. They have a good chance of leading a long and fulfilling life with more quality years than has ever been the case. Sometimes the world can seem awful but it was ever so. At least now more of the world is more tolerant and understanding and this coupled with modern technoloiges and medical advances have made much of the Western world and many other parts of the world as well a pretty good place to live at a pretty good time.
Dr The Singh Posted 6 February 2015 Posted 6 February 2015 The Katie Price's will be the first of many fence sitters that will come into this war. It's not going to be pretty
reynard Posted 6 February 2015 Posted 6 February 2015 In terms of casualties these wars are totally small fry to anything now. (Crimea apart) It's not rose tints, it's recognising the size of war in comparison to what it is now. To put it into perspective, the total casualty for the Syrian civil war just abouts exceeds all those put together, let alone thinking about Afghanistan, Iraq, Russia, Checyn, Africa, Palestine, Colombia, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Somalia, Phillipines, Tibet, Yemen, Mexico and all the other countries dealing with insurgancies. The World is far more fcuked up now than it was 105 years ago. The American Civil war saw casualties of 750000 soldiers and untold numbers of civilians. 26-27000 women and children died in the British concentration camps in the Boer War The Taiping rebellion in China in the 1850s saw 20 million killed The world has always been fcucked up but now we get to hear about it. On balance though I would say much of the world is a better place to live now than it was in the 1850s.
Mike Oxlong Posted 6 February 2015 Posted 6 February 2015 The Katie Price's will be the first of many fence sitters that will come into this war. It's not going to be pretty Eurgh! Wouldn't want to go near any fence that Katie had sat on. The bacteria count would be frightening.
Bagworthblue Posted 6 February 2015 Posted 6 February 2015 But it was also full of bigotry, poverty, inequality, crime poor life expectancy incurable diseases. Also let's not forget the Crimean War, the Zulu War, the Boer War the American Civil war, the second Afghan war. Infact the list is pretty endless. People should reassure their kids in this country that they have a real chance to make something of their lives. It doesn't matter what their ethnicity is or theri gender or sexuality. They have a good chance of leading a long and fulfilling life with more quality years than has ever been the case. Sometimes the world can seem awful but it was ever so. At least now more of the world is more tolerant and understanding and this coupled with modern technoloiges and medical advances have made much of the Western world and many other parts of the world as well a pretty good place to live at a pretty good time. Agree - in effect the internet has brought the atrocities of the world right into our living rooms! Before the internet, it was still there, just not as widely known and what was known seemed further away
Rodders Posted 6 February 2015 Posted 6 February 2015 Frightens me that humanity is actually capable of that. If the world ever ends it'll be our own doing. This isn't humanity. This is pure evil. Think orcs in lord of the ring and you approach something not too far off.
Crinklyfox Posted 7 February 2015 Posted 7 February 2015 Sooner or later the world will have to deal with IS. Islam is a broad church but their version of it is not, and when their philosophy is to convert everyone to their version or enslave or kill them they become a cancer in the world that has to be cut out. So long as they have a seemingly endless supply of foreign fighters joining their ranks and potentially carrying out acts of terror on their behalf they will be difficult to overcome, so education of their target group, the young and impressionable, must be part of the campaign to defeat them. Centuries ago in the region young men were drugged, taken away from their families, then plied with wine and women, drugged again and taken back. They were told that they had been to heaven and the only way to return was to die in the service of their captors. They became the original 'assassins'. IS are using modern tactics to similarly influence young people to fight and die in their cause, with the belief of paradise as the outcome. If that belief can be quashed then the stream of fighters going to IS should diminish.
johnny the fox Posted 7 February 2015 Posted 7 February 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnk8SKD9zcA
Mark_w Posted 7 February 2015 Posted 7 February 2015 This isn't humanity. This is pure evil. Think orcs in lord of the ring and you approach something not too far off. It's humanity.
Guest Bilo Posted 8 February 2015 Posted 8 February 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_ZGp6SG7NY My personal favourite is the stupid ape cooking the explosive!
MikeyT Posted 11 February 2015 Posted 11 February 2015 Wasn't really sure which other thread to put this in. ISIS related so thought here. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/09/03/report-credible-information-isis-aqap-planning-11-anniversary-attack-abroad/ The latest recipients of an Islamic State threat are responding in kind, with Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov vowing that "these bastards" will be "destroyed." Kadyrov, a close ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin, went on an Instagram rant after Islamic State posted a video threatening Putin over his support for Syria's Bashar al-Assad and vowing to liberate Chechnya. The Muslim strongman, who has fought Islamic militants in his backyard for years, seemed to take special umbrage at a threat aimed at his patron in Moscow. "I state with full responsibility that the one who had the idea to express a threat to Russia and say the name of the president of the country Vladimir Putin, will be destroyed, where he did it," Kadyrov seethed. "I emphasize that they finish their days under the hot sun in Syria and Iraq, and in the first instant of death meet their eternal flames of Hell. Allahu Akbar!" The video that incensed Kadyrov showed Islamic State fighters cavorting around Russian fighter planes sent to Assad by the Kremlin but seized when Islamic State overran Syria's Tabqa airport. In the video, which was posted and translated by Middle East Media Research Institute, a fighter refers to Kadyrov as a Putin puppet. Kadyrov responded onInstagram by saying "these bastards have no relation to Islam," and vowing if they try to threaten Russia or Chechnya "you will be destroyed." "I want to remind everyone who is planning something against our country, that Russia has worthy sons, ready to fulfill any order, wring the neck of any enemy in his own lair, wherever he may be," Kadyrov wrote. "And we find ourselves with happiness ridding the world of these scum." The threat against Russia and Chechnya came as an Israel-based intelligence news service claimed that the Saudi, British and Australian governments have "credible information" that Islamic State and Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula have plans to launch a coordinated attack around the time of the Sept. 11 anniversary. DEBKAfile reported that unnamed "counterterrorism sources" say the groups are preparing to hit in the Middle East and somewhere in western Europe. According to the site, the militants are holding off on planning an attack on the U.S. for now. ISIS operates in Iraq and Syria, while AQAP is based in Yemen. The report comes after a second American journalist was executed by the Islamic State. So far, U.S. officials have said they are not aware of any plots against the U.S. at this stage, though they have the potential to target the U.S. and Europe using western passport holders. Matt Olsen, outgoing director of the National Counterterrorism Center, said Wednesday there is no indication of any Islamic State cells in the U.S., "full stop." But he said the group poses a "multi-faceted threat to the United States."
Lionator Posted 11 February 2015 Posted 11 February 2015 Appears that Jordan are getting the ball rolling in terms of wiping these scum out.
Fox92 Posted 11 February 2015 Posted 11 February 2015 Good. Everyone should come together and eliminate them.
MikeyT Posted 11 February 2015 Posted 11 February 2015 They have to be eliminated and eradicated from this Earth. Human life is nothing to them. My mind can't begin to comprehend the things they have done to people, none more so than Moazal al-Kasasbeh.
leicsmac Posted 11 February 2015 Posted 11 February 2015 I think they've finally pissed off enough people that they're going to have a shit sandwich too big for them to handle. Not before time either.
Miquel The Work Geordie Posted 11 February 2015 Posted 11 February 2015 Kadryov is a ****ing nutter, in all. Can't imagine him not rising to threats.
johnny the fox Posted 11 February 2015 Posted 11 February 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40Od45DjCA4
J.Lisemore Posted 12 February 2015 Posted 12 February 2015 They'll get what's coming to them one day, and they probably know it. They want to take on the world? Silly people.
Guest MattP Posted 12 February 2015 Posted 12 February 2015 Well the promised response has been errr....shit. ISIS even claiming more territory over the last few days. Britain is apparently only involved in less than 3% of action against ISIS according to Rory Stewart. Anything think we should be stepping up for a bigger role?
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