leicsmac

The second paragraph is the true gear grinding issue here, I think.

Fair to say, but then I also think it's a fair argument that the whole cycle of action and reaction, revenge and counter vengeance, is stupid.

That would then suggest that the incursion is indeed limited for the time being. (Not sure how much this timely update has to do with the previous post, however.)

I dunno, I rather like the idea of the play by play as it might help show how foolhardy the whole thing is. And if the Israelis (and the Iranians) want to whine about being rumbled on doing stupid things before they do them...well, they always have the option to, you know, not do those stupid things. Pardon the rather simplistic language here but it is frustrating to see how much the major players in this matter act like children and how many innocent lives are lost because of that puerile sentiment.

In terms of (access to) knowledge, the world is smarter across the board now than it's ever been. The problem IMO is that it still lacks a critical something in matters like the above which becomes problematic when it's a matter of political policy subject to the knowledge (or lack thereof) of everyone.

Don't forget the words "precise" and/or "precision" in there too.

Jon:

Stands to reason, yeah, though I think Israel has been pretty circumspect about engaging Iran directly in the past, a few examples like Stuxnet aside.

Can you unpack this one a bit? Given Israel already have the capacity for mutually assured destruction in the region, I'm not sure how much that would affect the direct strategic situation. Generally, of course, it would massively destabilise things, but that's beyond this particular situation.

If that's being used as a justification for what has happened and what will happen, it's as flimsy as it is laughable. What they are doing is their disproportionate version of restoring the balance of terror. Which in this Might Makes Right world is apparently fine, but the "good guy" PR campaign being floated alongside it insults the intelligence of any observer beyond the casual and those totally fine with such Might Makes Right.

Well, yeah. Such cycles of vengeance tend to only end when one side is either dead or totally subjugated at a massive cost in blood, or when both sides actually realise that they're all actually human beings and break the cycle.

That all sounds pretty accurate in summation. But it's also obvious it's going to result in a lot more blood being spilled and the Israeli leadership feigning lack of any responsibility for it despite being the ones having actually pulled the triggers.

Israel looking to go into Lebanon then. I know that the Old Testament goes on about an eye for an eye, but exactly how many eyes are enough?

... if I had to guess, it would be for the same reason big sporting events are often now held in or run by the Middle East. The bottom line.

Yeah, transparency is naturally a good thing. The second paragraph represents a failure of society, rather than the scientific method itself, I think. I agree it can be a problem and needs addressing because in the end, those laws of physics, thermodynamics etc will have the last word.

The Americans are in no position to laugh at the majority of UK food efforts, but there aren't many others that can't IMO.

That disdain is entirely justified. However, as the unfortunate fact is that time on certain problems is short and those two happen to be the only game in town, then looking past the people to the party policy platforms makes the choice obvious, I think.

He and his supporter base have been telling everyone else exactly who they are for years now - I'm not sure why there are some who do not believe them.

Quite right. Sooner it's done, the sooner oil and gas reliance for energy generation becomes a thing of the past and the less damage will be inflicted for the next few generations to deal with.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg9qd22k7po.amp Interesting chat with Professor Cox.

Money has its own gravity, I've found. In terms of more money and material items.

Fair enough. Speaking personally, I know a lot of people who think they'll be Bill from The Last of Us but in actuality they'll be "guy #678" who gets merked in the opening 10 minute montage of shit going down. Really rather not have it come to that at all.

Yeah, that conspiracies happen and it sometimes takes a while for it all to come out is not in question. I'm just sceptical of such conspiracies when they involve elements and consequences beyond the control of the conspirers. If that were the case, we'd be seeing a great deal more pushback from the climate science corps, given the size of the corps and therefore the size of the conspiracy involved. Of course, funding for scientific research can get politicised which is why such funding should not be subject to personal or political opinion and should be ring-fenced no matter who holds the purse strings. The laws of thermodynamics and their consequences are not political. Yeah. "When presented with the direct choice between evil and oblivion, opt for the former, because evil, no matter how strong, can be vanquished - oblivion cannot."