Next Leader of the Opposition

[Guest MattP]

Labour could still win on left wing politics. People are fundamentally good so will fundamentally lean to the left. All it will take is for a strong leader to convince some of the middle that a more liberal, progressive society is for the better and that it's not all about profit. Let's not forget that the tories only won by buying old people votes. It'd not as if the country has fundamentally shifted to the right. At our best we're still a vibrant, multicultural, European nation. The right wing knuckledraggers are still but a noisy minority.

 

I remember talking about how deluded some on the left were about a year ago on here, I need a new word for it now, incredible stuff. In case you didn't notice half the voters went for the Tories or UKIP and that's before you could the votes from DUP, BNP, Lib Dems, Independents etc

 

By all means though go ahead, let's see the next attempt from Labour to try win from a left wing platform, Alistair Campbell was right, some of you lot will simply never learn no matter how many times you lose.

 

They also got the old vote due to letting them spend their own money, not bribing them, though I suppose if you think every penny is actually owned by the state you wouldn't understand this and you wouldn't understand why people do vote Tory.

[Strokes]

Best £3 ever this.

I'm going to have to get on this.

[Frank to be]

I remember talking about how deluded some on the left were about a year ago on here, I need a new word for it now, incredible stuff. In case you didn't notice half the voters went for the Tories or UKIP and that's before you could the votes from DUP, BNP, Lib Dems, Independents etc

By all means though go ahead, let's see the next attempt from Labour to try win from a left wing platform, Alistair Campbell was right, some of you lot will simply never learn no matter how many times you lose.

They also got the old vote due to letting them spend their own money, not bribing them, though I suppose if you think every penny is actually owned by the state you wouldn't understand this and you wouldn't understand why people do vote Tory.

You said it yourself that the tories had to shift to the middle ground to get more votes. They did that, and even presided over the creation of many new jobs (of dubious quality of course) and oversaw marginal increases in real take home pay, yet the bulk of working age people still didn't vote for them. They probably lost working age votes. They won because old people just didn't like Ed Miliband, a proper leader with a proper left wing outlook would have done better for Labour.

[Guest MattP]

You said it yourself that the tories had to shift to the middle ground to get more votes. They did that, and even presided over the creation of many new jobs (of dubious quality of course) and oversaw marginal increases in real take home pay, yet the bulk of working age people still didn't vote for them. They probably lost working age votes. They won because old people just didn't like Ed Miliband, a proper leader with a proper left wing outlook would have done better for Labour.

 

They did have to shift to the middle ground, every party does these days if they want power, the fact you view Tory voters as "knuckledraggers" though probably means your view of the political spectrum is vastly different to the majority of people. I don't see Labour voters as communists.

 

According to the stats posted by ADK up the page shows that whilst the Tories lost a few votes aside from pensioners in no age group over the age of 35 did Labour still have more people voting for them than the Tories, that's not working people turning their backs on the Tories, it's also the age you start taking life quite seriously, an age where most people actually start getting into politics, you should be worrying that the only age group that's voting for you in good numbers is the one you eventually lose a lot of to the Tories, ones who haven't yet lived through Labour so they still might give you a chance and don't see the baggage you have.

 

That's of course if we are taking these as gospel as well, the pollsters haven't exactly been spot on have they? Certainly don't seem to get an accurate vote of just who and how many people are voting Tory either.

 

Two years ago all you lot were telling us that Ed was set for number 10, he was a proper left wing leader then, it's a shame you can't recognise how incompetent they are before elections instead of after, I'm sure we'll be hearing the same nonsense again in 3-4 years time and then of course when he or Burnham have lost tey again the British public will be ready to vote for a left wing leader as soon as you find a competent one. I'm only 32 and I feel like I've seen this on numerous occasions.

[Rincewind]

I'm a pensioner I was one of the 65% that never voted Tory. Labour voters lost faith with the party since Blair. Maybe moving slightly left will win back voters. I'm more of an old liberal type  so if they change towards that it will be  fine by me. A bloke who plays poker with me is a real leftie and a big Clash fan. He said he was a Labour party member until the 1st Iraq war then left. They may have lost a few members when they fecked up over Scotland. If it was not for the refrehemdon  they may have done better so the timing of it worked out well for Cameron and co. Not thatI am suggesting it was set up of course. :

But as I have said I am not really a supporter of any party.

BTW  the petition asking the DWP to publish figure  relating to deaths within 3 months of having benefits stopped has now reached 125k sigs.

 

The  DWP has been refusing and using delaying tactics to avoid publishing latest figures despite a FOI request andorders from high court judges stating they saw no legitamate reason why  the figures should not be made public if the dept had nothing to hide IDS has appealed more than once, the costs running into the thousands being paid for by the taxpayer. The last appeal had to be handed in by May 29th. It was  handed in with about 2 hours to spare.

 

I don't know about anyone else but the way the DWP and their boss have handled  these things seem a  little nudge nudge, wink wink,iffy and dodg if you know what I mean.. Surely the best way to prove the counter argument wrong  is to publish the stats and make them public knowledge? Or am I missing something by using logic?

[Guest MattP]

I'm a pensioner I was one of the 65% that never voted Tory. Labour voters lost faith with the party since Blair. Maybe moving slightly left will win back voters. I'm more of an old liberal type  so if they change towards that it will be  fine by me. A bloke who plays poker with me is a real leftie and a big Clash fan. He said he was a Labour party member until the 1st Iraq war then left. They may have lost a few members when they fecked up over Scotland. If it was not for the refrehemdon  they may have done better so the timing of it worked out well for Cameron and co. Not thatI am suggesting it was set up of course. :

But as I have said I am not really a supporter of any party.

 

I think a few more than 35% of pensioners who voted did so for the Tories Ken given they got 37% across the board.

 

I think Labour did actually win back a lot of their old left wingers voters in the last election, I know a couple myself who came back for Ed after leaving under Blair, which possibly shows just how many middle ground voters they lost, Miliband was spouting all sorts of policy to grab back those old voters, mansion taxes, bankers taxes, etc plus a lot of them do come back as soon as the Tories get to power. I remember Alf saying he was voting Labour because at the end of the day that's his tribe and it's almost a sense of duty to do that when the blues are in.

 

As has been covered before Scotland was irrelevent in terms of seats, Labour could have won every single seat in Scotland and the Tories would still have had a majority given how much of England and Wales Labour have lost.

 

If people do geninely believe going even further back to the left will make them electable again then I won't try and convince you otherwsie, most of us who have moved past 1975 realise it won't though, you might be about to do exactly what the Conservatives did in the late 90's and 00's.

[Guest MattP]

Dan Hodges v Owen Jones in the Labour leadership debate, Jones is actually going to seriously support Corbyn.

 

[Rincewind]

Yes a living wage and building  more  houses is a  bad idea.

[Guest MattP]

I would have no problem with the introduction of the living wage Ken, people would have to realise they won't be able to pay £2 for a scarf from Primark of be getting a pint for £1.99 in Weatherspoons if we are going to pay people £8.50 an hour to pull pints though. Do you think they would tolerate that?

 

I wouldn't be engaging in any house building programs just yet, I don't see how we can plan for that or what we would need when we don't even control our own borders.

[Frank to be]

only a tory homeowner would deny the need to build more houses. The country is on the precipe of a national disaster due to the housing crisis.

[Guest MattP]

only a tory homeowner would deny the need to build more houses. The country is on the precipe of a national disaster due to the housing crisis.

 

I'm not a homeowner.

 

As for your other 'point' - we have 700,000 empty homes in the UK. - http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/feb/23/europe-11m-empty-properties-enough-house-homeless-continent-twice

 

We need to build more affordable housing, but we also need to be able to control and know the numbers of people who will be entering the country in order to make sure we have a fair estimate of how many we actually need to build. As I've said before, we don't have money trees, we have to find 90 billion worth of cuts in the next five years remember.

[Jon the Hat]

Yvette Cooper Married Ed Balls.  If ever you needed evidence of someone's judgement...

[Webbo]

Oh god I hope Labour don't turn more to the left. Us tories will stand no chance in 2020.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Voll Blau]

Good piece by Frankie Boyle...

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/16/labour-leadership-candidates-boring-rightwing-frankie-boyle

 

I like Burnham but this sentence made me chuckle: "Andy Burnham sounds like he wishes that there were speedbumps in Mario Kart."

[Guest MattP]

Liz Kendall really is growing on me, she just stopped short on Sky News this morning of saying Thatcher was a political hero but I could tell she wanted too (opted for a more reserved she should be an inspiration to all women in politics). She's also dumped Greg Davies which earns her even more points.

 

I'm still voting for Jeremy Corbyn, but I wouldn't hold any fear of a Labour government under her leadership in the same way as people didn't with Blair at the helm.

[Guest MattP]

Good piece by Frankie Boyle...

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/16/labour-leadership-candidates-boring-rightwing-frankie-boyle

 

I like Burnham but this sentence made me chuckle: "Andy Burnham sounds like he wishes that there were speedbumps in Mario Kart."

 

"Of course, none of the frontrunners are proper socialists; they don’t even hate each other".

[Voll Blau]

"Of course, none of the frontrunners are proper socialists; they don’t even hate each other".

 

Boyle really is a top quality columnist these days. Really rate the guy.

[Guest MattP]

Boyle really is a top quality columnist these days. Really rate the guy.

 

I enjoyed reading that and found it funny, it was a bit silly and based on huge hyperbole though, does he actually do serious political columns as well?

[Guest MattP]

I'm playing petanque tonight but I'll be recording the hustings on BBC2 to watch later on, like the fact they have straight back to the graveyard of Nuneaton to do it as well.

[Voll Blau]

I enjoyed reading that and found it funny, it was a bit silly and based on huge hyperbole though, does he actually do serious political columns as well?

 

No, they're all the same sort of tone. But he manages to put some decent points across behind all the one-liners. His writing's come a long way since he just tried to be as offensive as possible about everyone though.

[Guest]

Corbyn would do the labour party some good over the short term.

 

Differentiate the parties.

[Guest MattP]

Corbyn would do the labour party some good over the short term.

 

Differentiate the parties.

 

If you consider turning every marginal seat in the country into a safe Tory one then you are right.

[Guest]

If you consider turning every marginal seat in the country into a safe Tory one then you are right.

 

He could always be replaced just before the election and then the public will love the new "guy".

[Guest]

If you consider turning every marginal seat in the country into a safe Tory one then you are right.

 

Most people who don't vote tory will continue to not vote tory. They hate the tories and will therefore choose any other alternative. 

[Guest MattP]

He could always be replaced just before the election and then the public will love the new "guy".

 

What a fantastic election strategy.

 

Most people who don't vote tory will continue to not vote tory. They hate the tories and will therefore choose any other alternative. 

 

That's the key, "most" - There is a core of about 500,000-1,000,000 people who are floaters, these are the people who decide elections, these are the people Blair got voting Labour who might otherwise have voted Tory, barely a single one of those would switch from Blue to Red under him.

 

Corbyn would make Labour safe seats into huge Labour holds but they would be massacred anywhere outside the heartlands. It looks like he'll be too left wing to be elected by the Labour party members, yet some people think despite that he can win the whole nation Baffling.