The Politics Thread

[Thracian]

I think we'll see another woman pm before we see a non-white pm. Sadly.

 

 

Don't you like white PMs? 

[Alf Bentley]

The Labour Party is currently a slow-motion car crash. DK how that gets resolved any time soon unless Corbyn either shows some effective leadership or is toppled. Neither looks imminent. Maybe the Tories will suffer a similar implosion over Europe, though, particularly if we vote to stay in the EU (can't imagine the Eurosceptics accepting that)?

 

Briefly moving away from the bewildering state of national politics....

An extraordinary statement that I heard on TV the other night (can't remember source, but a credible one): Saudi Arabia is on track to be bankrupt within 5 years.

 

Apparently, due to low oil prices and their dependency on oil income, their budget deficit is massively more problematic than ours. They've already introduced austerity budgets, but it is nowhere near enough, it seems - not least as they've increased defence spending by about 25%.

 

Throw into the mix the current thaw in relations between Iran (Saudi's main regional power rival) and the West. It seems that Iran is now looking to significantly increase its oil output, for which it has the capacity - and potentially the opportunity, now that trade sanctions against Iran are being dismantled. This seems to be partly a strategic power move by Iran, designed precisely to bankrupt the Saudis by keeping oil prices low. Iran has a much more diverse economy than Saudi, so can afford to do this.

 

Iran is mainly Shia Islam. Saudi is mainly Sunni Islam. Things could definitely get a whole lot wilder in the Middle East over coming years. Anyone fancy a war between Iran and Saudi? 

 

Interesting FT article here, giving a summary of the historical background: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/413ea2ea-b3df-11e5-8358-9a82b43f6b2f.html#axzz3wXwOlDqG

[Guest]

Yeah of course it does, people makes up their minds on a leader quite quickly, even when Labour were doing well in polls people still thought Miliband was shit as as usual when we got to polling day people didn't vote for someone they didn't like as a leader.

 

Corbyn is already finished in reality, it's just how much damage he does between now and when he leaves as to how much of a force the Labour party can ever be again.

 

 

 

 

Sorry I wasn't very clear. I don't expect Corbyn to be the leader in the run-up to the election so I really don't see why it would matter.

[Guest]

Why sadly?

 

Sadly was referring to the length of time I believe it will be.

 

So "Sadly" because we could do with more non-whites and women représentatives and leaders. Sadly because the UK is still a sexist, racist society by nature. Much, much better than they were when I was a lad but still sexist and racist.

[Guest]

Don't you like white PMs? 

 

That dépends on the PM. I dislike the inequality in PMs.

[Guest]

The Labour Party is currently a slow-motion car crash. DK how that gets resolved any time soon unless Corbyn either shows some effective leadership or is toppled. Neither looks imminent. Maybe the Tories will suffer a similar implosion over Europe, though, particularly if we vote to stay in the EU (can't imagine the Eurosceptics accepting that)?

 

Briefly moving away from the bewildering state of national politics....

An extraordinary statement that I heard on TV the other night (can't remember source, but a credible one): Saudi Arabia is on track to be bankrupt within 5 years.

 

Apparently, due to low oil prices and their dependency on oil income, their budget deficit is massively more problematic than ours. They've already introduced austerity budgets, but it is nowhere near enough, it seems - not least as they've increased defence spending by about 25%.

 

Throw into the mix the current thaw in relations between Iran (Saudi's main regional power rival) and the West. It seems that Iran is now looking to significantly increase its oil output, for which it has the capacity - and potentially the opportunity, now that trade sanctions against Iran are being dismantled. This seems to be partly a strategic power move by Iran, designed precisely to bankrupt the Saudis by keeping oil prices low. Iran has a much more diverse economy than Saudi, so can afford to do this.

 

Iran is mainly Shia Islam. Saudi is mainly Sunni Islam. Things could definitely get a whole lot wilder in the Middle East over coming years. Anyone fancy a war between Iran and Saudi? 

 

Interesting FT article here, giving a summary of the historical background: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/413ea2ea-b3df-11e5-8358-9a82b43f6b2f.html#axzz3wXwOlDqG

 

Interesting and understandable situation.

 

Let's hope we sit this one out and let the shit hit the fan over there.

[Thracian]

That dépends on the PM. I dislike the inequality in PMs.

 

 

How would a black or woman PM necessarily be "more equal"? 

[MooseBreath]

Sadly was referring to the length of time I believe it will be.

So "Sadly" because we could do with more non-whites and women représentatives and leaders. Sadly because the UK is still a sexist, racist society by nature. Much, much better than they were when I was a lad but still sexist and racist.

How do you know?

[Guest]

How do you know?

 

What?

[Guest]

How would a black or woman PM necessarily be "more equal"? 

 

I know I'm wasting my time replying to you but...

 

Your question is non-sensical. Either you completely misunderstand the statements I'm making or you are a troll.

[Thracian]

Sadly was referring to the length of time I believe it will be.

 

So "Sadly" because we could do with more non-whites and women représentatives and leaders. Sadly because the UK is still a sexist, racist society by nature. Much, much better than they were when I was a lad but still sexist and racist.

 

 

When I compare the sexism and racism of England to that of a Muslim society I'm proud to be English.

 

I'm just sad our fair-mindedness has resulted, not in a better society but Asian gangs plying under-aged white girls with drugs and turning them into sex slaves under the very noses of supposedly responsible councils.

 

Sad that our once pleasant schools have been targeted for religious grooming by Muslim fundamentalists, that all our streets are now furnished with security cameras and even our basic communications are increasingly monitored for fear of any terrorism implications.

 

Sad that I wouldn't dream of leaving my doors open now when once I wouldn't have given it a second thought.

 

I cannot overstate the damage done by the ill-conceived philosophies of the Lefties and with worse to come for sure.

 

Yet still our gates stay wide open for too many people who basically despise our freedoms, our philosophies and our way of life .

 

Once I could have got a doctors appointment at random.

 

Now I'd be quicker to train as a doctor and treat myself.

 

Doctors and nurses are leaving in their droves due to the now ridiculous demands on them and other services are creaking just as badly.

 

Sexist and racist? This country has bent over to be fair to people yet has still been shit on by far too many.          

 

I look around the world at non-white leaderships and what do I see?

 

Well, not the kind of promised lands you seem to imagine. And if there were, why the hell does everyone want to live here?

 

For a shit country, run by shitty white folk, it seems mighty popular.   

[leicsmac]

When I compare the sexism and racism of England to that of a Muslim society I'm proud to be English.

 

I'm just sad our fair-mindedness has resulted, not in a better society but Asian gangs plying under-aged white girls with drugs and turning them into sex slaves under the very noses of supposedly responsible councils.

 

Sad that our once pleasant schools have been targeted for religious grooming by Muslim fundamentalists, that all our streets are now furnished with security cameras and even our basic communications are increasingly monitored for fear of any terrorism implications.

 

Sad that I wouldn't dream of leaving my doors open now when once I wouldn't have given it a second thought.

 

I cannot overstate the damage done by the ill-conceived philosophies of the Lefties and with worse to come for sure.

 

Yet still our gates stay wide open for too many people who basically despise our freedoms, our philosophies and our way of life .

 

Once I could have got a doctors appointment at random.

 

Now I'd be quicker to train as a doctor and treat myself.

 

Doctors and nurses are leaving in their droves due to the now ridiculous demands on them and other services are creaking just as badly.

 

Sexist and racist? This country has bent over to be fair to people yet has still been shit on by far too many.          

 

I look around the world at non-white leaderships and what do I see?

 

Well, not the kind of promised lands you seem to imagine. And if there were, why the hell does everyone want to live here?

 

For a shit country, run by shitty white folk, it seems mighty popular.   

 

Eloquent pair of rose-tinted spectacles there, Thrac. You buy them yourself?

 

In terms of life expectancy through medical advances, educational opportunity and technological advancement both the UK and the world are better than they've ever been. Of course, fundamentalism in the form of nationalism and religious zealotry still has a hold over a lot of the world, but the landscape is changing in a way no-one could have foreseen a few decades back.

 

Humanity is progressing - it's not happening nearly as fast as many (including myself) would like, but it's happening.

[MooseBreath]

What?

How do you know that Britain is a sexist and racist country?

[David Guiza]

When I compare the sexism and racism of England to that of a Muslim society I'm proud to be English.

 

That's exactly the issue with your whole post and outlook, in my opinion. Just because we are more moral, humanitarian etc than another country/regime does not mean that we're faultless. Also, make you 'proud to be English' just because we're not as despicable as another nation? Pride really has sunk to the bottom of the barrel if that's the case. Are you proud to be English because we only have a minor race, sexuality and gender issues, as opposed to say Saudi Arabia? We only slag immigrants off on the internet, in our press and subject them to verbal abuse as opposed to murdering or torturing them like other countries. 

Yes Britain is fantastic compared to the majority of the world, but let's not pretend it's faultless, or even close to that. Get your head out of the sand and acknowledge that problems do exist in this country that fall outside of immigration.

[bovril]

We have our fair share of insecure chavs that buy into a lot of the nonsense in the gutter press, but in general the UK is incredibly welcoming to foreigners. We seem to have been much more successful in integrating newcomers than almost anywhere else in Europe.

[Guest MattP]

Sorry I wasn't very clear. I don't expect Corbyn to be the leader in the run-up to the election so I really don't see why it would matter.

 

Why doesn't it matter? Are you being serious? For a start off a lot of people have now found out what the Labour party is really like, the old hard nasty left never left it and are still there in such great numbers they are now running the show, if something doesn't happen quickly they will have a membership and PLP that will refuse to ever pick a sensible candidate again.

 

The Labour party also has a huge problem now in the whole population knowing that it's members thought this man was going to be a capable Prime Minister.

 

Sadly was referring to the length of time I believe it will be.

 

So "Sadly" because we could do with more non-whites and women représentatives and leaders. Sadly because the UK is still a sexist, racist society by nature. Much, much better than they were when I was a lad but still sexist and racist.

 

An absolutely absurd comment.

 

That's exactly the issue with your whole post and outlook, in my opinion. Just because we are more moral, humanitarian etc than another country/regime does not mean that we're faultless. Also, make you 'proud to be English' just because we're not as despicable as another nation? Pride really has sunk to the bottom of the barrel if that's the case. Are you proud to be English because we only have a minor race, sexuality and gender issues, as opposed to say Saudi Arabia? We only slag immigrants off on the internet, in our press and subject them to verbal abuse as opposed to murdering or torturing them like other countries. 

Yes Britain is fantastic compared to the majority of the world, but let's not pretend it's faultless, or even close to that. Get your head out of the sand and acknowledge that problems do exist in this country that fall outside of immigration.

 

Britain is the most tolerant country in the World, you go through the list of things that Thrac has mentioned, barely another country on the planet would have tolerated those things without descending into serious civil unrest, we're about to see similar things happen in Germany and I guarantee you they will hold their politicians to far more account than we did over the grooming gangs and trojan horse scandal.

 

I often think that you judge if you have made a mistake by going back to the original point and asking yourself if you would do the same thing again, I don't think anyone could seriously hand on heart say they would have gone through with allowing mass sunni Muslim immigration into the United Kingdom again if they turn back the clock.

 

As an aside, you are 24 now, don't you think it's time to get rid of the Che avatar?

[Guest MattP]

The Labour Party is currently a slow-motion car crash. DK how that gets resolved any time soon unless Corbyn either shows some effective leadership or is toppled. Neither looks imminent. Maybe the Tories will suffer a similar implosion over Europe, though, particularly if we vote to stay in the EU (can't imagine the Eurosceptics accepting that)?

 

Briefly moving away from the bewildering state of national politics....

An extraordinary statement that I heard on TV the other night (can't remember source, but a credible one): Saudi Arabia is on track to be bankrupt within 5 years.

 

Apparently, due to low oil prices and their dependency on oil income, their budget deficit is massively more problematic than ours. They've already introduced austerity budgets, but it is nowhere near enough, it seems - not least as they've increased defence spending by about 25%.

 

Throw into the mix the current thaw in relations between Iran (Saudi's main regional power rival) and the West. It seems that Iran is now looking to significantly increase its oil output, for which it has the capacity - and potentially the opportunity, now that trade sanctions against Iran are being dismantled. This seems to be partly a strategic power move by Iran, designed precisely to bankrupt the Saudis by keeping oil prices low. Iran has a much more diverse economy than Saudi, so can afford to do this.

 

Iran is mainly Shia Islam. Saudi is mainly Sunni Islam. Things could definitely get a whole lot wilder in the Middle East over coming years. Anyone fancy a war between Iran and Saudi? 

 

Interesting FT article here, giving a summary of the historical background: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/413ea2ea-b3df-11e5-8358-9a82b43f6b2f.html#axzz3wXwOlDqG

 

Whatever happens with the Tories if they resort to calling each names on Twitter they need shooting, providing the EU ref is done free and fairly I don't see a problem and I'm delighted DC has given a free vote and allowed ministers to campaign for whichever side they want.

 

That Saudi prediction is absolutely staggering, s massive Shia-Sunni war is probably going to be the culmination of the whole Middle Eastern mess.

 

It could also make things very difficult for us given the amount of Sunni Muslims we have based in the country and our supposed friendship with Saudi Arabia, they would be prepared to inflict the most horrific crimes on the Shia people if they could and I doubt we'd be able to do a single things about it.

[David Guiza]

Britain is the most tolerant country in the World, you go through the list of things that Thrac has mentioned, barely another country on the planet would have tolerated those things without descending into serious civil unrest, we're about to see similar things happen in Germany and I guarantee you they will hold their politicians to far more account than we did over the grooming gangs and trojan horse scandal.

 

I often think that you judge if you have made a mistake by going back to the original point and asking yourself if you would do the same thing again, I don't think anyone could seriously hand on heart say they would have gone through with allowing mass sunni Muslim immigration into the United Kingdom again if they turn back the clock.

 

As an aside, you are 24 now, don't you think it's time to get rid of the Che avatar?

I understand that completely, but there is good and bad sides to that too, is there not? I'd much rather live in this country than somewhere like Russia for example. I'm not naïve enough to believe that the left is not largely to blame for a lot of what Thrac posted, in terms of being to accepting and trust. However, I'm also not so one dimensional to believe that everything he posted is down to immigration, or one specific religion, as he seemed to be almost alluding to.

 

The point I was trying to make however, is that Thrac seemed to be saying that we didn't have issues with things such as racism, sexism, gender inequality etc because it's not as bad as other nations, which is nonsense. Just because sexism or homophobia isn't anywhere near as bad as the middle east doesn't mean it doesn't need addressing.

 

Haha, to be honest I pay no attention to the avatar.

[Guest MattP]

No worries mate, reading my post back I sounded like a right patronising arsehole, apologies.

[David Guiza]

No worries mate, reading my post back I sounded like a right patronising arsehole, apologies.

Haha, not a problem!  

[Guest MattP]

For today's Labour party hilarity give the Daily Politics a watch, Ken Livingstone talking about NATO amd Trident. Unfortunately he's been claiming things again are up for review when officially the party line is they aren't.

Jon Woodcock MP is now claiming that Ken/Corbyn etc are deliberately making the party look ridiculous so moderates like him will leave instead of being purged.

You can listen to it here as well....

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/01/ken-livingstone-makes-labours-bad-week-even-worse/

[Strokes]

That's exactly the issue with your whole post and outlook, in my opinion. Just because we are more moral, humanitarian etc than another country/regime does not mean that we're faultless. Also, make you 'proud to be English' just because we're not as despicable as another nation? Pride really has sunk to the bottom of the barrel if that's the case. Are you proud to be English because we only have a minor race, sexuality and gender issues, as opposed to say Saudi Arabia? We only slag immigrants off on the internet, in our press and subject them to verbal abuse as opposed to murdering or torturing them like other countries. 

Yes Britain is fantastic compared to the majority of the world, but let's not pretend it's faultless, or even close to that. Get your head out of the sand and acknowledge that problems do exist in this country that fall outside of immigration.

Yeah let's condemn and berate our minor faults, rather be proud and celebrate our successes. Great plan Dave. I bet you are a joy to be around.

[Thracian]

Eloquent pair of rose-tinted spectacles there, Thrac. You buy them yourself?

 

In terms of life expectancy through medical advances, educational opportunity and technological advancement both the UK and the world are better than they've ever been. Of course, fundamentalism in the form of nationalism and religious zealotry still has a hold over a lot of the world, but the landscape is changing in a way no-one could have foreseen a few decades back.

 

Humanity is progressing - it's not happening nearly as fast as many (including myself) would like, but it's happening.

 

 

I read up hugely on the subject of world conflicts and, while I seriously commend your optimism about humanity, see no signs that man is "progressing" in anything but physical rather than philosophical ways, and then only to a relatively negligible degree.

 

Mind you I do wonder if evil is programmed into people (some believe that life is a computer game) as a means of bringing the best out of the menders - like those who invent new limb replacements for those who've had their limbs blown off or even work on the science of growing new parts completely.

[Thracian]

I understand that completely, but there is good and bad sides to that too, is there not? I'd much rather live in this country than somewhere like Russia for example. I'm not naïve enough to believe that the left is not largely to blame for a lot of what Thrac posted, in terms of being to accepting and trust. However, I'm also not so one dimensional to believe that everything he posted is down to immigration, or one specific religion, as he seemed to be almost alluding to.

 

The point I was trying to make however, is that Thrac seemed to be saying that we didn't have issues with things such as racism, sexism, gender inequality etc because it's not as bad as other nations, which is nonsense. Just because sexism or homophobia isn't anywhere near as bad as the middle east doesn't mean it doesn't need addressing.

 

Haha, to be honest I pay no attention to the avatar.

 

 

I've tried to find the sentence where I suggested Britain was "faultless" and that there were "no problems outside of immigration".

 

I failed. Which didn't surprise me because I actually think this country has lots of problems, a few of which have accounted for more of my earnings these last four years than I could ever justify.

 

I've noted the areas you mention above, including your reference to religion. I doubt you'd want to hear my views on religion because, overall, I believe faiths have been used to excuse for man's lust for power over centuries, and the death toll in the name of those faiths is more a tribute to man's greed and ambition than any possible concept of goodness.

 

As for everything else you mention I'm sure that, for some, the problems may seem painful and lingering.

 

But to me they pose far less threat to this nation - and to Western ways and wellbeing - than either religion or open house immigration. 

 

However, if you want my views on religion, racism, sexism, homophobia and/or gender equality just ask.   

     

Some think I write far too much as it is!    

[Buce]

I've tried to find the sentence where I suggested Britain was "faultless" and that there were "no problems outside of immigration".

I failed. Which didn't surprise me because I actually think this country has lots of problems, a few of which have accounted for more of my earnings these last four years than I could ever justify.

I've noted the areas you mention above, including your reference to religion. I doubt you'd want to hear my views on religion because, overall, I believe faiths have been used to excuse for man's lust for power over centuries, and the death toll in the name of those faiths is more a tribute to man's greed and ambition than any possible concept of goodness.

As for everything else you mention I'm sure that, for some, the problems may seem painful and lingering.

But to me they pose far less threat to this nation - and to Western ways and wellbeing - than either religion or open house immigration.

However, if you want my views on religion, racism, sexism, homophobia and/or gender equality just ask.

Some think I write far too much as it is!

Surely not?