Bettsj2 Posted 11 January 2016 Posted 11 January 2016 Jon The Hat has it right. Corbyn is simply out of his depth. Yes we all wanted something different from our politicians but we also wanted something that would actually benefit the country. I hate it when I hear people say things like, 'this country is a joke' and 'we're just a soft touch'. If Corbyn was to win an election the country would be exactly these things. He needs to go and fast. Without credible opposition our system of government doesnt work at all.
Countryfox Posted 11 January 2016 Posted 11 January 2016 Probably not a bad person and does have some good points but JC s far too polar in his opinions and will never be able to represent the majority of people and therefore must go.
Guest MattP Posted 11 January 2016 Posted 11 January 2016 I do almost admire the Corbynistas though in a way, their blind loyalty is probably only surpassed by the cybernats. It must make him feel good when you can do no wrong.
David Guiza Posted 11 January 2016 Posted 11 January 2016 Jon The Hat has it right. Corbyn is simply out of his depth. Yes we all wanted something different from our politicians but we also wanted something that would actually benefit the country. I hate it when I hear people say things like, 'this country is a joke' and 'we're just a soft touch'. If Corbyn was to win an election the country would be exactly these things. He needs to go and fast. Without credible opposition our system of government doesnt work at all. I dare say this has been the case for some time now. When was the last time there two really credible leaders? Blair v Major, Hague, Smith and Howard, Brown v Cameron etc have all been almost laughable. Agree with what's been said about Corbyn, he's not a bad person I don't think, and he does have some very credible views. However, he's too far left and it's 30 years too late for that. I can't see anybody other than a Blairite ousting Cameron and co though.
Guest MattP Posted 11 January 2016 Posted 11 January 2016 Blair v Major, Blair v Hague and Cameron v Miliband were all credible debates, Blair was just a vote winning machine and Miliband collapsed underneath the pressure of the SNP and his own incompetence in closing out a poll lead in the last year before an election. Had he taken the economy more seriously he might have won. Hague was still the best Tory leader apart from Thatcher I've seen at the despatch box, people just didn't want to vote for a bald guy in a baseball cap.
davieG Posted 11 January 2016 Posted 11 January 2016 The charisma of the leader is a major part of getting into power these days, granted Cameron doesn't have a great deal but a fair bit more than Brown and Milliband. Corbyn is like the anti-hero.
Guest MattP Posted 11 January 2016 Posted 11 January 2016 Tony Soprano is an anti hero, Jeremy Corbyn is a peculiar man whose main hobby is taking photos of manhole covers.
davieG Posted 11 January 2016 Posted 11 January 2016 Tony Soprano is an anti hero, Jeremy Corbyn is a peculiar man whose main hobby is taking photos of manhole covers. Maybe anti hero is a bit strong he's probably more just eccentric But I suspect he's the anti hero to his most ardent followers
Claridge Posted 11 January 2016 Posted 11 January 2016 Eccentric? He's a total nut job.comes across as a nasty piece of work to me.
Buce Posted 11 January 2016 Posted 11 January 2016 Eccentric? He's a total nut job.comes across as a nasty piece of work to me. Tony Soprano? Or Jeremy Corbyn?
Claridge Posted 11 January 2016 Posted 11 January 2016 Tony Soprano? Or Jeremy Corbyn? Sorry thought they were the same person.cynically ridding themselves of any opposition.
Guest MattP Posted 12 January 2016 Posted 12 January 2016 I know whose company I'd rather share out the two
Guest MattP Posted 12 January 2016 Posted 12 January 2016 Doubt this will surprise anyone, McDonnell really does despise this country and everything it stands for doesn't he? How could anyone share a platform with this lot? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/12093408/John-McDonnell-attends-protest-event-organised-by-Cage.html
Darkon84 Posted 12 January 2016 Posted 12 January 2016 I'd forgotten all about CAGE, they really are a nasty bunch and contrary to what they've said, any right-minded person shouldn't be seen aligning themselves next to them. People really need to take note of who Corbyn's mates are cosying up to should be alarmed.
The Fox Covert Posted 12 January 2016 Posted 12 January 2016 The joke on the Blairites is that they actually changed the system for election of the Labour leader. They assumed that allowing all the £3 'supporters' to vote would mean the candidate with the highest media profile, and nearest to the political centre ground would be elected. How wrong they were! They also hadn't got a clue what was going on in Scotland. Since the Scots got their own parliament they have taken less and less interest in the shenanigans at Westminster, and it was very easy for Sturgeon to brand Scottish Labour as 'Red Tories'. Labour is as dead as a dodo in Scotland and may quite soon disappear into oblivion in England if something does not change, and quickly. Nobody wants New Labour, it is Tory Lite. Hardly anyone wants Corbyn either, he is a political dinosaur from the eighties who cannot see that the world has changed. Thirty years ago I knew Jon Lansman, now one of the main apparatchiks behind Corbyn. He hasn't changed one little bit, apart from the little grey beard. Nearly a hundred years ago Labour replaced the Liberals as the main progressive party in Britain. Now it is time that something emerged to replace Labour as an effective opposition to the Tories.
Webbo Posted 12 January 2016 Posted 12 January 2016 Pretty sure it was Milliband who change the system to allow the £3 members and he wouldn't describe himself as Blairite.
Alf Bentley Posted 12 January 2016 Posted 12 January 2016 Pretty sure it was Milliband who change the system to allow the £3 members and he wouldn't describe himself as Blairite. That's right. It was under Miliband that the system was changed, after a review. However, Corbyn won by a large margin among full party members, not just £3 registered supporters. What's more, Corbyn would have almost certainly won under the old system (1/3 of votes to party members; 1/3 to Labour MPs/MEPs; 1/3 to unions). He'd have been hammered in the MPs section, but would have won among party members and probably among the unions (though Burnham might have run him close there). The result, particularly for Burnham, would have been closer, but Corbyn would still have won. I reckon the central problems were: (1) None of the alternative candidates presented an appealing alternative vision; (2) Labour supporters wanted an appealing alternative after years of frustration with the negative aspects of the New Labour project followed by a shocking defeat at an election that they thought would, at worst, yield another hung parliament, possibly a Labour-led govt.
Guest MattP Posted 13 January 2016 Posted 13 January 2016 Andrew Neil getting pissed off with Jon Ashworth on Daily Politics ; "That's not even the question I asked you, do you want to try again or shall we just move on?" "Up to you" "Yeah we'll move on" Could be an interesting PMQ's today, according to the Sunday Times Cameron is going to go a lot easier on Corbyn from now on in a bid to try and help him cement his position as leader.
Voll Blau Posted 13 January 2016 Posted 13 January 2016 Not quite sure the leader of Leicestershire County Council's alibi stacks up here, unless the hacker thinks the idea of Harborough Tories is stalk-on inducing... http://order-order.com/2016/01/13/tory-boob-i-was-hacked/
davieG Posted 14 January 2016 Posted 14 January 2016 Labour's general election defeat verdict revealed 1 hour ago From the sectionUK Politics Image copyrightPAImage captionEd Miliband was seen as a weaker leader than David Cameron, an internal report says Labour's general election policies were not too left wing, an internal report into why the party lost says. There are claims the report, which was completed in November, has been suppressed by the party because it would undermine Jeremy Corbyn. But the BBC's Iain Watson, who was leaked some of the key details, says it does not blame "left wing" policies. He said the party was likely to publish the report, which was written by Margaret Beckett, on Tuesday. More than 500 people have signed a petition calling for it to be released. BBC Political Correspondent Iain Watson on the key findings Commissioning the report last May, interim Labour leader Harriet Harman said the party needed a "forensic, honest examination of where it went wrong" in order to regain the trust of the British public. It will be discussed by a sub committee of Labour's National Executive next week. In the meantime, I have spoken to a senior Labour source who has seen the report and I have - verbatim - its key findings. The report sets out four reasons why the party lost the election, gleaned from polling and doorstep conversations: Failure to shake off the myth that we (ie Labour) were responsible for the financial crash and failure to build trust in the economy Inability to deal with issues of "connection" in particular failure to communicate on benefits and immigration Ed Miliband was judged not be as strong a leader as David Cameron Fear of the SNP propping up a minority Labour government Something for everyone The report reads like it is written by committee - the left are likely to point to some of its finding a as a kind of endorsement, mainstream MPs will highlight others Was Labour too left wing? The report provides some solace for Corbynistas. It says: "Some of the 'left-wing policies' were the most popular" (eg mansions tax) and "individual policies polled well - the issue was the lack of a consistent, cohesive narrative". It also says some voters on the left wouldn't have voted for Labour if it had been any more right wing. But - on the other hand - it says the party failed to win sufficient votes from the Lib Dems in the right parts of the country, and did better in seats which Labour already held, and "we failed to connect with demographic groups who are seen as in the centre" of British politics. Was Labour badly organised? Beckett's report more or less absolves the party officials who undertook the "ground war" in the run up to May's general election but suggests the party targeted too many seats - 106. The Conservatives attacked in only 50 and defended a further 50. Labour devoted few resources to seats where it was vulnerable. Advice for the future Less spin, and getting the shadow cabinet to hold meetings outside London are among the recommendations, as well as identifying the need to have a "simple seamless narrative". But Jeremy Corbyn might find some of the report harder to swallow - it calls for a stronger defence of Labour's record in government - ie New Labour's record ("we should be proud of our record of major social change") and that the party should point out how "it paid down debt" before the financial crash. And it says "we must take the global crash myth head on which dogged us through the last Parliament". The report also suggests working more closely with business and gives some credence to the criticism that the party wasn't seen as being sufficiently in favour of individual aspiration. Labour's reaction to the leak A Labour spokesman said: "The formal process of considering the Learning the Lessons report is in its final stages and will conclude next week when it is presented to the relevant committee of the NEC. The Labour Party will then make the report public."
Thracian Posted 14 January 2016 Posted 14 January 2016 I'd hoped the election would have put an end to seeing such smug mug reminders of the kind of apology for a politician who can somehow aspire to running this once-great country - but no such luck. I love those references to to a "strong economic foundation" and "controls on immigration". Reminds me of Tony Blair's "Weapons of mass destruction". Is suffering from delusions part of the membership qualifications for joining Labour or do they just see lies as just a variation on the concept of truth? My advice for the future? Do the nation a great service by winding the Party up and letting someone else have a go who doesn't want to give the country away by one means or another.
Stadt Posted 14 January 2016 Posted 14 January 2016 "How would you save the steel jobs in the north east then?" "YOU FIND MONEY FOR WAAAR!" oh dear
Guest MattP Posted 15 January 2016 Posted 15 January 2016 "How would you save the steel jobs in the north east then?" "YOU FIND MONEY FOR WAAAR!" oh dear It's almost like they are becoming a parody of themselves and haven't noticed. Some of these Labour ministers pushed to the fore now are so bad even I want to hide behind the sofa watching them.
Guest MattP Posted 15 January 2016 Posted 15 January 2016 Labour's general election defeat verdict revealed 1 hour ago From the sectionUK Politics Image copyrightPAImage captionEd Miliband was seen as a weaker leader than David Cameron, an internal report saysLabour's general election policies were not too left wing, an internal report into why the party lost says. There are claims the report, which was completed in November, has been suppressed by the party because it would undermine Jeremy Corbyn. But the BBC's Iain Watson, who was leaked some of the key details, says it does not blame "left wing" policies. He said the party was likely to publish the report, which was written by Margaret Beckett, on Tuesday. More than 500 people have signed a petition calling for it to be released.BBC Political Correspondent Iain Watson on the key findingsCommissioning the report last May, interim Labour leader Harriet Harman said the party needed a "forensic, honest examination of where it went wrong" in order to regain the trust of the British public. It will be discussed by a sub committee of Labour's National Executive next week. In the meantime, I have spoken to a senior Labour source who has seen the report and I have - verbatim - its key findings. The report sets out four reasons why the party lost the election, gleaned from polling and doorstep conversations: Failure to shake off the myth that we (ie Labour) were responsible for the financial crash and failure to build trust in the economy Inability to deal with issues of "connection" in particular failure to communicate on benefits and immigration Ed Miliband was judged not be as strong a leader as David Cameron Fear of the SNP propping up a minority Labour governmen They actually needed an internal report to tell them that? Most people on here were posting this the morning after the election. You can make your own assumptions/jokes on this one, pollsters are saying they were out of sync as Tory voters are harder to find or contact https://www.politicshome.com/party-politics/articles/story/general-election-polls-failure-down-not-enough-tories-report
Alf Bentley Posted 15 January 2016 Posted 15 January 2016 You can make your own assumptions/jokes on this one, pollsters are saying they were out of sync as Tory voters are harder to find or contact https://www.politicshome.com/party-politics/articles/story/general-election-polls-failure-down-not-enough-tories-report I reckon all the Tory voters were in the Cayman Islands counting their tax-free dosh, or down the dole office or glued to their gadgets, posting pro-Tory comments on Foxes Talk. There is a serious point in this re. pollsters. In the 80s, I spent 2-3 years working on a government social survey. The sample was carefully calibrated to ensure a social/demographic balance. Interviewers were not allowed to go to alternative addresses if the people at the sampled address were out or refused to take part, but were allowed multiple visits over 3 weeks to get an interview. The people running the survey also deemed it a serious problem if the response rate fell below about 80%. Easy to see how a sample could be slanted if interviewers are allowed to move on to easier-to-find respondents, after 1 or 2 visits (maybe to cut costs for the polling company).
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