Parafox Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 What you call anger some would call passion. Oh, the times I have had angry sex....
Carl the Llama Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 It's Hitlerism to say that people become less capable beyond a certain age and to suggest that we test people once they reach an age where you can reasonably expect, as a result of our medical knowledge, that the ageing process may have begun to take effect? That's the same as rounding up millions of people and executing them en masse? You're a fvcking idiot Thrac.
Thracian Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 Anyway I'm off now to play golf with a young pal of mine. Anyone on Foxestalk want to join us and see what it's like to be held back by geriatrics? £25 to the winner, £5 per birdie and another £20 for the longest drive on the last. Competition tees of course. . Oh, the times I have had angry sex.... Now you're talking.....if only I could wheeze my way out of first gear!
Rincewind Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 It was only a matter of time before politics came into it. I had lessons when younger and one instructor said do not drive like me when you pass. I think he was saying the more you drive the more you move away from the ABC way of driving so how many habits would be picked up after 50 years. I may be wrong though as drivers will know best. It is true that there are bad drivers of all ages but many realise when they are slowing down. If a driver person as a near miss how many put the blame on the other driver, cyclist or pedestrian and not themselves? It is not easy for an older person to admit that they cannot function as well as they used to. Pride gets in the way and the desire to be independent. If a relative is concerned maybe a word with a family doctor. News coming from a doctor may have more impact. It can just be a suggestion for a start.
Thracian Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 And people with depression or long/short-term anger/health/employment/mental issues should? Who are you kidding? Just study the accident stats and come up with something that will make things safer. Like speed governers and clearer, smoother roads with clearer, less cluttered signage. I'm all ears.
The Guvnor Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 Anyway I'm off now to play golf with a young pal of mine. Anyone on Foxestalk want to join us and see what it's like to be held back by geriatrics? £25 to the winner, £5 per birdie and another £20 for the longest drive on the last. Competition tees of course. . Now you're talking.....if only I could wheeze my way out of first gear! I'll take your money off you as long as your not driving the golf buggy!
Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 How? There are about 15 million people over the age of 60 and that number is growing all the time. It's impossible to retest everyone. 60 isn't a problem at all (that seems to be a good age for driving, where awareness is still sharp enough but experience tends to stop people from making poor decisions), like the current process starting at 70. Maybe every year a quick eye test/hazard perception test, every 2 or so years a shortened driving test which just covers the basics and an emergency stop. No parking element or anything, just have an instructor present in the car on a route which the driver is familiar with. 5 - 10 minutes should be enough for the instructor to conclude whether the driver is still capable
Babylon Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 60 isn't a problem at all (that seems to be a good age for driving, where awareness is still sharp enough but experience tends to stop people from making poor decisions), like the current process starting at 70. Maybe every year a quick eye test/hazard perception test, every 2 or so years a shortened driving test which just covers the basics and an emergency stop. No parking element or anything, just have an instructor present in the car on a route which the driver is familiar with. 5 - 10 minutes should be enough for the instructor to conclude whether the driver is still capable There are about 700,000 driving tests each year. There are about 8m over 70's in the uk, even if only a couple of million of them were still driving post 70, to regularly test them would lead to utter chaos in the system as you'd be quadrupling the number of tests each year. Ok, even if it's still not full tests it's still a huge amount of time and paperwork, let alone costs in implementing the system. Now I'm sure we could argue that saving a few lives is worth the cost. But if you look at the crash statistics I think that money would be better spent focusing on those actually causing the most accidents and fatalities.... and they are half the age. In a perfect world of course it would be great to be able to test people in vunerable groups. But I don't think it can be done. It will stay in the hands of the driver themselves and their family to call it a day. Perhaps the involvement of local GP's to suggest they stop driving (but I'm sure that's already the case anyway).
MC Prussian Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 The Swiss are hardly immune. I travel to Switzerland every month for work and regularly see clueless drivers pulling out of sidestreets without looking, parking on the pavement because they can't find a parking space within 10 metres of the grocery store, and generally having complete disregard to pedestrians. Also the UK has one of the lowest rate of road fatalities (as a % of the population) in Europe, so this is clearly not just a UK issue. See page 15 of this report http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN02198/SN02198.pdf Where to start? Your comment has little to nothing to do with what I posted, so please allow me to re-iterate my statement: It is my belief that in the UK, there's a definite lack of promoting public transportation and thus a greater emphasis on using cars/trucks. The elderly in particular would benefit tremendously from improved public transportation services, as them avoiding individual traffic would prevent fatal accidents due to age and health reasons to a certain extent - and here I close the circle to the initial post by the OP. I'm not talking road fatalities in general, I'm talking elderly people with health issues endangering everybody else.
Sir Fynwy Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 Where to start? Your comment has little to nothing to do with what I posted, so please allow me to re-iterate my statement: It is my belief that in the UK, there's a definite lack of promoting public transportation and thus a greater emphasis on using cars/trucks. The elderly in particular would benefit tremendously from improved public transportation services, as them avoiding individual traffic would prevent fatal accidents due to age and health reasons to a certain extent - and here I close the circle to the initial post by the OP. I'm not talking road fatalities in general, I'm talking elderly people with health issues endangering everybody else. The bus driver who killed 2 people in Coventry recently was 77, public transport in the UK may not reduce the number of older drivers
Soar Fox Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 Thrac can argue with anything. I didn't even mention the elderly in my post! Any rules should apply just as well to someone in their 20s as in their 80s. I remember a thread a few years ago where Thrac was defending drink drivers.
Carl the Llama Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 There are about 700,000 driving tests each year. There are about 8m over 70's in the uk, even if only a couple of million of them were still driving post 70, to regularly test them would lead to utter chaos in the system as you'd be quadrupling the number of tests each year. Ok, even if it's still not full tests it's still a huge amount of time and paperwork, let alone costs in implementing the system. Now I'm sure we could argue that saving a few lives is worth the cost. But if you look at the crash statistics I think that money would be better spent focusing on those actually causing the most accidents and fatalities.... and they are half the age. In a perfect world of course it would be great to be able to test people in vunerable groups. But I don't think it can be done. It will stay in the hands of the driver themselves and their family to call it a day. Perhaps the involvement of local GP's to suggest they stop driving (but I'm sure that's already the case anyway). This I have no qualms with. If it's structurally impossible to achieve then fair enough. Thracian's indignant cries of Hitler however are at best intellectually dishonest, at worst the signs of early dementia.
Vicki Vixen Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 Where to start? Your comment has little to nothing to do with what I posted, so please allow me to re-iterate my statement: It is my belief that in the UK, there's a definite lack of promoting public transportation and thus a greater emphasis on using cars/trucks. The elderly in particular would benefit tremendously from improved public transportation services, as them avoiding individual traffic would prevent fatal accidents due to age and health reasons to a certain extent - and here I close the circle to the initial post by the OP. I'm not talking road fatalities in general, I'm talking elderly people with health issues endangering everybody else. You started your post by making the point that this is a UK-specific issue. I responded with personal experience and government data to suggest it is not a UK specific issue. I strongly disagree that use of public transport is under-promoted in the UK. It is the same as most countries in Europe - people use public transport in large cities, but less so in other areas of the country. Use of public transport is increasing in the UK at a rate faster than the EU average, and the usage of public transport in the UK is also above the EU average. http://www.ceec.uitp.org/sites/default/files/Local_PT_in_the_EU_web%20%282%29.pdf
MC Prussian Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 You started your post by making the point that this is a UK-specific issue. I responded with personal experience and government data to suggest it is not a UK specific issue. I strongly disagree that use of public transport is under-promoted in the UK. It is the same as most countries in Europe - people use public transport in large cities, but less so in other areas of the country. Use of public transport is increasing in the UK at a rate faster than the EU average, and the usage of public transport in the UK is also above the EU average. http://www.ceec.uitp.org/sites/default/files/Local_PT_in_the_EU_web%20%282%29.pdf I also stated (in parenthesis) "not only (UK-specific)".
Rincewind Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 This I have no qualms with. If it's structurally impossible to achieve then fair enough. Thracian's indignant cries of Hitler however are at best intellectually dishonest, at worst the signs of early dementia. I think his defense of the not so young is because of his own age.He is healthy and active for someone of his age so good luck to him. I would be wary about letting somebody over 80 drive me about. You never know when your ticker is going to give out.At any age. A friend of mine is in Glen Parva hospital after a heart attack. He is 49. But it is more common to those over 80 which is the age thought should be given to ones capability to drive.
Mike Oxlong Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 This I have no qualms with. If it's structurally impossible to achieve then fair enough. Thracian's indignant cries of Hitler however are at best intellectually dishonest, at worst the signs of early dementia.
Thracian Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 I remember a thread a few years ago where Thrac was defending drink drivers. What a selective comment. I said that because someone had been drinking didn't necessarily mean he/she was the cause of the accident. An acquaintance of mine had a crash on a road outside Sheffield. He was unfamiliar with the road, crossed the central reservation on a bend and collided with a car coming the other way. Happily no-one was injured and my acquantance admitted that he was entirely at fault and the woman driver involved was entirely blameless. He got fined for driving without due care and attention while she got fined and disqualified because she was over the limit. That's not justice in my book. We use drink as an easy excuse to apportion blame and inflict punishment but that justice doesn't necessarily reflect whose mistakes caused the problem. We just love to categorise people. It's comfortable and convenient. Yet the truth is that some people still drive safely when they've had a few while others can't drive properly whatever.
Vardinhio Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 Should also get people who've drunk far too much Barbars off the road, I've known 4 regular drink drivers in my life 3 are dead and the other is thrac If you know he drink drives report it to the police.
Thracian Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 I think his defense of the not so young is because of his own age.He is healthy and active for someone of his age so good luck to him. I would be wary about letting somebody over 80 drive me about. You never know when your ticker is going to give out.At any age. A friend of mine is in Glen Parva hospital after a heart attack. He is 49. But it is more common to those over 80 which is the age thought should be given to ones capability to drive. It might be more common but a friend of mine is dying of emphysema aged 42 and it brings me to tears, the silly bitch. Every time I see her she begs me for a lift here or there but I shall her next time there'll be no chance if Carl the Llama has his way. And no chance of pocket money for her kids either. Dementia? I wonder if Carl would fancy a game of golf for a oner, assuming, of course, that he doesn't mind taking money off the afflicted, if only in the name of kindness and social inclusion. .
Mike Oxlong Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 This is gonna end up as a cock contest. In the interests of fairness, I'm out.
Rincewind Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 As I said quite a few people when in an accident deny that it is their fault or have any blame but if there is any factor that may have changed their decision making whether it is drinking, distraction or lack of concentration which slows them down then that will be what will be looked at first by accident investigators.
Guest Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 Yet the truth is that some people still drive safely when they've had a few while others can't drive properly whatever. So. Those that drive comfortably when they've had a few do you think they'd drive better or worse without a substance (or amount of a substance) proven to impair their judgement imbibed? And should we continue to attempt to stop this happening by having breathalyser tests and what have you?
Carl the Llama Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 It might be more common but a friend of mine is dying of emphysema aged 42 and it brings me to tears, the silly bitch. Every time I see her she begs me for a lift here or there but I shall her next time there'll be no chance if Carl the Llama has his way. And no chance of pocket money for her kids either. Dementia? I wonder if Carl would fancy a game of golf for a oner, assuming, of course, that he doesn't mind taking money off the afflicted, if only in the name of kindness and social inclusion. . Yep, I've been banging on about how elderly people should be packed away in cans and shoved down the river. I haven't stressed once that I'm talking about elderly people who have dropped off and not noticed or been willing to accept it you absolute fvcking bore. And like Mike, I'm out. You can read my previous comments and assume that their content is my response to your next pile of drivel Thrac.
Thracian Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 You must be being deliberately obtuse now Thracian. How many times does it need to be made clear to you that our concern is with the natural degradation of physical and mental abilities as one gets older? Yes people of other ages experience a decline in ability for various reasons. When it happens to a 50 year old though, it's not the result of a gradual ageing process. You can't reasonably predict that someone will suddenly become a danger on the roads at that age because it represents somewhat of a medical irregularity. But the ageing process is so entirely predictable that accidents caused by people not realising they should no longer be behind the wheel should be very simple to avoid with a small application of common sense. What the hell are you on about? Don't bother - I'm not trying to encourage you!
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