Magic mushrooms: Can they offer a cure for depression?

[Thracian]

MDMA, mushrooms, LSD and weed could all potentially have life-changing results for people with depression. Obviously administered in the right dose and right setting.

 

There are plenty of drugs out there which could save people years of pain / suffering and addiction to horrible man-made painkillers / opiates, etc. 

 

The problem is, none of these things are currently taxable and our government is too far up the backsides of all the big pharmaceutical companies who provide a lot of funding to ensure their manufactured drugs remain the only way for people to medicate. 

 

You only have to look at the success some states in America are having with the legalisation of weed - people are able to medicate themselves using a drug that GROWS NATURALLY in the ground instead of fisting handfuls of prescription pills into their face every day. Not only that but the millions they're making in tax is being put into schools, housing the homeless, drug education. 

 

Still, the UK government won't EVER change their stance whilst they fear the loss of votes from the uneducated Daily Mail reading middle-class public of this country. People are scared because the media has made them scared - the media controlled by our government.

 

It's time people woke up - but you only have to see people moaning about weed in the #HAVINAPARTY thread on the football forum to see that isn't going to happen any time soon. Yes, it can get you high, but it can also provide relief for a whole host of illnesses, both physical and mental.

 

WAKE UP and get educated instead of repeating what you read in the papers. 

 

 

I've spent much of the last five years watching the effects of the drugs you champion and the consequences for the takers, their offspring and all sorts of people incidentally involved.

I really could write a book on the consequential misery of the various victims and the sort of predatory shit the actions of the drug-takers have spawned.      

Where do you think so much of the depression comes from? It's not just the drugs themselves. It's the starving kids, the money-lenders, the manipulators of need, the social services applying their pressure,  the neighbours acting as informers, the police breaking doors down, the local shops banning those desperate for a bag of diapers, the friends demanding their well-meant tenners back, the problem of not being able to pay for school trips or a new uniform, the despair of not being able to feed the electric meter and the impact of lawless, misguided children as they start on the same road to destruction.

Everything mentioned above I've witnessed at first hand these recent years and absolutely nothing has served to help one  bit because the victims are too scared, too ashamed, too vulnerable and too untrusting to seek the help they need and with good reason. Because there's no-one they can trust as, again, I've seen for myself cos the so-called care agents can be as self-serving and predatory as the money-lenders.  

That's the effect of the weed you mention, and more. Come round with me one day and I'll show you first hand. You won't need a newspaper, not even the Daily Mirror I presume you carry as a banner of righteousness.

I'll take you to a prison an hour away, we could (but won't) follow a taxi driver (ordered by social services) to the place where an under-age teenager is holed up for safety's sake, away from the neighbourhood predators who allegedly sexually abused her, or we can talk on the phone to despairing youngsters separated from their poorly and penniless mum who's idiocy has wrecked her health and her hopes.

I will personally show you the lives ruined by drugs and the beneficiaries of drugs anytime you wish. Including the burglars and associates currently doing time for the efforts they made to buy their next fixes, further actions which all had significant consequences for others. But give yourself plenty of time.      

[lifted*fox]

Thracian, I'm not going to enter into a long conversation with you about the benefits and dangers of various drugs. The world of addiction you allude to in your above post is very different to that of the casual drug-user who uses for recreational purposes and the controlled, measured medicinal user who can benefit from certain drugs for medical reasons. They are two very separate things. The situation you speak about above could be lessened and better improved by stopping the 'war on drugs' and providing proper support and outlets for users and abusers. Something I'm sure you can agree with is that whilst drug addicts are treated as criminals - your job won't get any easier.

 

Without going into too much detail on a public forum - I have a long and illustrious history of drug-use, all recreational, but I've taken most things aside from crack and heroin, including research chemicals. I have never suffered from addiction, I have always researched drugs that I intended to take and on the back of that I have never had a bad experience, fallen foul of excess or taken too much and suffered from overdose. MDMA and mushrooms changed my life in a positive way - I used to be a rather introverted person when I was younger and those drugs helped to open my mind and give me the confidence to become an outgoing, open-minded person. 

 

These days I don't do any 'hard' drugs and choose not to drink, in quantity (again, I'm sure you've seen plenty of people as you've described above suffering from alcohol addiction yet this is totally legal - so I'm sure you'll agree that alcohol should be reclassified and banned?). I vaporise weed on a semi-regular basis as my one remaining 'vice'. I do this with a fiancee, a successful job, a mortgage, money in the bank and a nice car on the drive-way - nothing of the darkness you describe above. There are millions of people across the world who do this as well. 

 

People who fall foul of serious drug-addiction and the mental illnesses that develop from it will most likely have other contributing factors in their life. They will perhaps come from poor / bad-backgrounds, have a tendency towards some sort of mental illness already. People use drugs - alcohol, weed, pain-killers, trips, whatever as a form of escapism - they have since the start of time - the problem is, some people need to escape more than others. There are plenty of people who can use drugs and keep perspective in their lives without totally losing the plot.

 

So don't try and make this into some black and white argument where I'm wrong and you're right - I too write from experience and can appreciate both sides of the argument. What I can 100% categorically say with confidence is that our current stance on drugs isn't helping the people that you help (as described above) and isn't helping the recreational / medicinal user. It isn't helping our government and it isn't helping our police force. It isn't helping our ambulance services either. Something needs to change, I think you'll agree?  

 

Also, I quite like your football related posts - but the whole 'Daily Mirror banner of righteousness' / 'Give yourself plenty of time' jibes above are condescending and unnecessary. I haven't aimed any personal comment at you to warrant such a response and it's not a good look for you - knock it on the head.

[Thracian]

Thracian, I'm not going to enter into a long conversation with you about the benefits and dangers of various drugs. The world of addiction you allude to in your above post is very different to that of the casual drug-user who uses for recreational purposes and the controlled, measured medicinal user who can benefit from certain drugs for medical reasons. They are two very separate things. The situation you speak about above could be lessened and better improved by stopping the 'war on drugs' and providing proper support and outlets for users and abusers. Something I'm sure you can agree with is that whilst drug addicts are treated as criminals - your job won't get any easier.

 

Without going into too much detail on a public forum - I have a long and illustrious history of drug-use, all recreational, but I've taken most things aside from crack and heroin, including research chemicals. I have never suffered from addiction, I have always researched drugs that I intended to take and on the back of that I have never had a bad experience, fallen foul of excess or taken too much and suffered from overdose. MDMA and mushrooms changed my life in a positive way - I used to be a rather introverted person when I was younger and those drugs helped to open my mind and give me the confidence to become an outgoing, open-minded person. 

 

These days I don't do any 'hard' drugs and choose not to drink, in quantity (again, I'm sure you've seen plenty of people as you've described above suffering from alcohol addiction yet this is totally legal - so I'm sure you'll agree that alcohol should be reclassified and banned?). I vaporise weed on a semi-regular basis as my one remaining 'vice'. I do this with a fiancee, a successful job, a mortgage, money in the bank and a nice car on the drive-way - nothing of the darkness you describe above. There are millions of people across the world who do this as well. 

 

People who fall foul of serious drug-addiction and the mental illnesses that develop from it will most likely have other contributing factors in their life. They will perhaps come from poor / bad-backgrounds, have a tendency towards some sort of mental illness already. People use drugs - alcohol, weed, pain-killers, trips, whatever as a form of escapism - they have since the start of time - the problem is, some people need to escape more than others. There are plenty of people who can use drugs and keep perspective in their lives without totally losing the plot.

 

So don't try and make this into some black and white argument where I'm wrong and you're right - I too write from experience and can appreciate both sides of the argument. What I can 100% categorically say with confidence is that our current stance on drugs isn't helping the people that you help (as described above) and isn't helping the recreational / medicinal user. It isn't helping our government and it isn't helping our police force. It isn't helping our ambulance services either. Something needs to change, I think you'll agree?  

 

Also, I quite like your football related posts - but the whole 'Daily Mirror banner of righteousness' / 'Give yourself plenty of time' jibes above are condescending and unnecessary. I haven't aimed any personal comment at you to warrant such a response and it's not a good look for you - knock it on the head.

 

You should reflect on your own blinkered comments about "Uneducated Daily Mail readers" before you start aiming bullets at others. Talk about hypocrisy. I was going to reply to the substance of what you said - and two important points in particular - but it's already clear my words will be wasted.   

[lifted*fox]

You should reflect on your own blinkered comments about "Daily Mail" readers before you start aiming bullets at others. Talk about hypocrisy. I was going to reply to the substance of what you said - and two important points in particular - but it's already clear my words will be wasted.   

 

The Daily Mail has a clear history of writing unsubstantiated, fearmongering stories about all kinds of drugs and I grew up with parents who read it and believed every word it said - not hypocrisy but experience. You really are on the highest of horses, so much so I have to question 'what exactly has Thracian been smoking?'. Let's face it, you were never going to give a decent response to my post above because you only have one angle to suit your own argument.

 

Stick to the football posts Thracian - you don't seem to be any good at discussing this topic. You are 100 years old or something though right? I wouldn't expect you to have a balanced, modern view on a topic such as this one. 

 

(that's a joke, not a serious dig before you start bleating on about hypocrisy again...  )

[DJ Barry Hammond]

I've spent much of the last five years watching the effects of the drugs you champion and the consequences for the takers, their offspring and all sorts of people incidentally involved.

I really could write a book on the consequential misery of the various victims and the sort of predatory shit the actions of the drug-takers have spawned.    

 

Where do you think so much of the depression comes from? It's not just the drugs themselves. It's the starving kids, the money-lenders, the manipulators of need, the social services applying their pressure,  the neighbours acting as informers, the police breaking doors down, the local shops banning those desperate for a bag of diapers, the friends demanding their well-meant tenners back, the problem of not being able to pay for school trips or a new uniform, the despair of not being able to feed the electric meter and the impact of lawless, misguided children as they start on the same road to destruction.

Everything mentioned above I've witnessed at first hand these recent years and absolutely nothing has served to help one  bit because the victims are too scared, too ashamed, too vulnerable and too untrusting to seek the help they need and with good reason. Because there's no-one they can trust as, again, I've seen for myself cos the so-called care agents can be as self-serving and predatory as the money-lenders.  

That's the effect of the weed you mention, and more. Come round with me one day and I'll show you first hand. You won't need a newspaper, not even the Daily Mirror I presume you carry as a banner of righteousness.

I'll take you to a prison an hour away, we could (but won't) follow a taxi driver (ordered by social services) to the place where an under-age teenager is holed up for safety's sake, away from the neighbourhood predators who allegedly sexually abused her, or we can talk on the phone to despairing youngsters separated from their poorly and penniless mum who's idiocy has wrecked her health and her hopes.

I will personally show you the lives ruined by drugs and the beneficiaries of drugs anytime you wish. Including the burglars and associates currently doing time for the efforts they made to buy their next fixes, further actions which all had significant consequences for others. But give yourself plenty of time.

I don't know if this was intended, but when I read this it reads to me as a strong reasoning for legalising drugs, because some of the issues you highlight tend to position themselves to the need to have more controlling regulation that only legalisation could bring about. Is that your position?

[Thracian]

Unlike some I don't pretend to have a packaged answer to the drugs problem.

 

I well understand the need for "escape" but have sons who find they get high enough ski-jumping, snowborarding, mountain biking, swimming in quarries and  hiking up the  Amazon without the need for drug assistance as far as I'm aware and certainly without the need to commit crime to fund their adventures (or mind-opening fixes) as some drug takers, sadly, do.    

 

But, if legalising drugs would improve the problem - or even make a sensible experiment - I'd not necessarily be against it. But alcohol and cigarettes are strong enough "substances", are both legal, and continue to cause untold misery to some of both the takers and those affected by them. So it doesn't make a convincing start.

 

However, while our society continually seeks to legislate people into one common denominator, the reasoning is clearly flawed. Not everyone becomes addicted to or lethally affected by nicotine and not everyone loses all reasonable control after drinking alcohol. The "tolerance" differences are massive and may be connected to the state of people's minds.

 

I mention that because I'm fairly convinced that mental illness and a family history of mental illness or breakdown may have something to do with the drug-taking, the need to get out of their natural minds and the physical/mental effect of their taking drugs/substances.

 

And the mental aspect may also be relevant in discovering why some people are more readily persuaded into drugs - or anything else - than others just as I believe levels of poverty can be an aspect but not the only one.

 

But where do the right answers lie. In tackling mental shortcomings? In better parenting but how if those parents themselves have mental problems?  In therapy and education rather than punishment despite the fact that victims or drug takers would be unlikely to sympathise, quite the contrary?

 

My own involvement - purely as a friend in need - has certainly convinced me that mental illness/shortcomings/philosophies play a part but that's no excuse for adverse concequencies because the perpetrators are well aware of their wrongdoing and simply chose to overlook the consequencies (apart, perhaps, from it deepening the gloom in their own minds). This all points to positive education and opportunity - something I believe could right a lot of wrongs if practiced early on and with continued emphasis.

 

I'm aware that might all seem a bit woolly/questionable/unproven but it summarises my thoughts on the subject. But people are individuals - not convenient groups. And the law perhaps needs to reflect that.             

[lifted*fox]

So, we're really not that differing in opinion then? 

 

That post certainly seems a lot more level and balanced than the doom and gloom you went with in your first reply. 

 

I'm not saying that out and out legislation is the answer - certainly not for all drugs. You only have to look to places like Amsterdam and Colorado to see that legalisation of a drug like Cannabis can be a good thing. 

 

Amsterdam hasn't fallen apart with weed available in coffee-shops. Not every inhabitant of Holland has fallen into some dark pit of despair. The legislation of something like that allows it to be controlled - helping to take money and power away from the gangs who still control the sale of drugs on our streets. The same gangs who exploit women in the sex-trade, have knife-fights and shoot-outs on the streets of places like Birmingham over turf and drug-related arguments. 

 

Crime rates have significantly dropped in Colorado since the legalisation of weed. Their police forces have been able to spend more time fighting ACTUAL crime issues like murders, rapes, domestic violence. I'm not just making this up to suit my argument - do some research online, the facts and figures are there for everyone to see. They are pouring millions of cannabis tax dollars into education, helping the homeless, building new schools. The UK could be benefiting from the same money! Joe Bloggs could walk to the local coffee-shop on Leicester high-street and pick up a few grams of locally grown weed - not putting money into the hands of street dealers / gangs. 

 

Just because something becomes legal doesn't mean everyone rushes out to go and do it. We still need to educate people on the use of substances - the dangers, they all come with them. The 'war on drugs' is a lost cause. It costs governments billions to try and stop something that is impossible to stop. How many people in the UK do you think don't try weed because it's illegal? I would hazard a guess and say the number is very low. If people want weed, they can get it, easily, without fear of the law - because even the law is starting to turn a blind eye to minor drug use - because they too see it as a waste of their time, their resources. 

 

Now, obviously - the same can't be said for drugs like Heroin. BUT, there are countries in the world who are helping heroin addicts by giving them safe places to take the drug. Safe rooms - with clean needles, and a clean supply of the drug. This keeps people off the streets, it ensures they have a safe area and safe tools to use. It's reducing the number of addicts who pick up life-threatening diseases like AIDS.

 

We have to be progressive to move forward Thracian - just trying to stop people taking drugs isn't working! We need things like pill testing tables in clubs. People are going to take pills whether allowed to or not - it's been going on since the 80's. But we've got kids dying in clubs at the weekend because their pills contain dangerous substances like PMA - instead of MDMA which is (as a chemical) harmless in small doses. These pills contain PMA because we have no control over what the 'gangs' are cutting these drugs with. Legalise it - not freely, but somehow so that we know the contents. MDMA is a relatively safe drug but it's made dangerous by putting it's manufacture into the hands of dangerous people.

 

Your kids do get their kicks from extreme sports and that's great - so do I, but I also chose to take drugs as well. It doesn't make me a bad person. It hasn't made me neglect people around me. I'm sure if your kids smoked a spliff or took a pill they wouldn't suddenly turn into evil drug-addicted, down and outs - BECAUSE YOU RAISED THEM WELL, like my parents raised me. 

 

I'm absolutely certain that there is a correlation between hardcore addicts and their upbringing / past, etc. The person's mental make-up is a huge part of their drug-taking experience.

 

I'm just going on a bit now - but people's attitude towards drugs needs to change - they're not going away but we're forcing people to experience with dangerous LEGAL substitutes because they can't get the real thing. Nobody should be having to do 'bath salts' because they can't safely get their hands on something like MDMA. It's madness. 

[AKCJ]

Has anyone ever tried shrooms? I'm not remotely depressed but it's always been on my bucket list

 

When I was at Uni I went to a seriously shady house party and this lad was making some sort of soup with them.

 

I have never seen someone so out of it. He literally was sat there with his eyes wide open and his pupils were the size of 2 pound coins.

 

He reckoned he had a great time once he had sobered up.

[lifted*fox]

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5230006.stm#drugs

 

This article is interesting - the guy is talking about how out of date and irrelevant our current drugs classification system is (albeit in 2006 - it's still the same) and he presents an argument, as shown in the table above for how it should be done based on the dangers of the drug in question and not only it's harmfulness to the user but it's cost to society as a whole. Take a look above and see where Tobacco and Alcohol sit in that table. If those products entered the market now, with the information we have now, they would never be allowed to be a legal 'drug'. They would be categorised in the same way that drugs like heroin and cocaine are.

 

You only have to look to the high-street on a Friday / Saturday night to see what an out of control substance Alcohol is. Find me a group of 100 stoned people shouting at each other and fighting in the street on a weekend. You won't - know why? Because they're all sat at home watching the TV, playing video games, staring into a fish-tank and most likely eating everything in the fridge.  

[DJ Barry Hammond]

@@Thracian

Spotting you're not pro-legalisation, I find that interesting given your areas of concern.

If we accept that the existence of alcohol, tobacco and drugs will be a given and that a significant number of people will want to consume regardless of legal status, the question is really how best to deal with the consequences of addiction and adverse effects of each and so it may be worth looking at the differing stances of these substances and what that means at present.

If we look at tobacco and alcohol, which are legal, there is no doubt that there are huge problems but with them being legal the government has been able to take measures to try and mitigate these - such as bottle and packet labelling, price controls / taxation, increased awareness of support programmes at the point of sale, advertising changes, etc - and there's some evidence that these are taking effect.

Whilst drugs are illegal, none of these things can happen and as I felt you alluded to previously the fact they are illegal makes things harder for people who get into problems to get help, but maybe the fact that drugs are illegal prevents many people venturing down this path.

So I guess a big question here is whether legalisation would result in a huge increase in drug consumption, resulting in more people being effected with associated problems against current levels, or if it would allow actions to be taken to reduce the underlying suffering that goes on now, even if the level of drug taking increased.

As always, this is not a black and white issue and there are many considerations - but with legal (or not any more) highs also coming into the mix these days, I dare say a different approach to the long standing one is possibly needed and if that solution meant there was a new taxation revenue stream that went directly to funding mental health services in this country then maybe that way is worth a go.

[lifted*fox]

Has anyone ever tried shrooms? I'm not remotely depressed but it's always been on my bucket list

 

Yes, several times. If you're planning on doing them, do them with close friends in a comfortable atmosphere in a safe place. Make sure you're feeling happy and lifted on the day - don't bother if you're having a bad day or in a bad mood. Mushrooms will amplify your current mood, so it's best to be in a good place mentally. Sometimes it's good to have someone around or nearby that isn't doing them at the same time - a sitter, if you will - to look after you if you end up having a bit of bad trip. Make sure you put plenty of time aside - I'd recommend doing them if you know you've got a good 10 hours free. I think my longest trip was probably around 8 hours. 

 

I always made tea when we used to do them - it's much nicer than trying to eat them and it finds it's way into your system better through liquid. Google online about the best way to do it but it's basically letting them sit in boiling water for an hour and then drinking it. Kick back, put on some of your favourite tunes or watch your favourite cartoons. how long it'll take you to come up depends on what type they are and how quickly your system takes them in. I'd always recommend eating a GOOD meal a few hours before you take them - something to line your stomach and you won't want to eat during the trip (normally). 

 

Any time between 30 - 90 minutes and you should start feeling the effects - generally you'll get the giggles (like smoking weed for the first time x10) and then everything starts to breathe - the world literally breathes with you. It's quite awesome and beautiful tbh. Fill your time with fun things - share your thoughts with friends or keep quiet and enjoy the simple things around you. My favourite spot was always the bathroom funnily enough - I used to love the way the tiles moved and looking in the mirror was always a fun experience - seeing your face as you've never seen it before. 

 

Everyone's experience will differ depending on dosage, but start small and build up / re-dose as you see fit. Treat Mushrooms with respect and they will do it in return. The several times I've done them I've always felt refreshed afterwards, 'reborn' is a cheesy way to put it but the next day the sky will seem a little bluer and the grass a little greener. A nice feeling and a great way to reflect and put things into perspective. 

 

Hope that helps. 

[sphericalfox]

What on earth are you on about? GPs get paid a tariff based in adhering to evidence based practice, they don't get paid by pharmaceutical companies. The companies can send reps around and stuff but the GPs can broadly on prescribe what they're permitted to by their CCG and NICE guidance.

Furthermore, we use SSRIs as a first line, they don't induce the type psychoactive effects you seem to be implying at the doses we use. You really think someone on 10 to 40mg of citalopram is dosed up to the eyeballs to the extent they no longer have capacity to make decisions for themselves? Have you any idea of the magnitude of what you're suggesting?

 

a.) Where did I state that GPs make a profit? I'm well aware of the commissioning process, and medicines management/mis-management at both CCG level and via NICE. Profitability goes to the shareholders such as all the Lords/Ladies and MPs who have a vested interest in pharma that lean on these organisation, and those who voted for legislation which enables privatisation of the NHS, for no other reason than to help themselves, and their benefactors (for another thread I know.) They have been recent examples of CCGs (Isle of Wight) where kickbacks were rife from pharma. Didn't get much publicity. Jeremy Hunt is good at PR, and anti-PR too.

 

b.) where exactly did I state or imply that SSRIs induce psychoactive effects? There are plenty of clinical studies which have been done over the years which suggest that SSRIs cause an emotional indifference, or a blunted (excuse the pun) emotional output, hence the word I used being 'stupor', you can define it whichever way you like. This emotional indifference I'm suggesting is not challenging what you are being told. I could go on about the waste of money on repeat prescriptions that add up to roughly £300 million of taxpayers money that GPs are accountable for, simply because they either refuse to use the right software, or actually communicate with their patients,  or merely code their prescriptions correctly, but that's a whole different tangent.

[sphericalfox]

I've seen hundreds of people detained under section 2 subsequently 3 following a drug induced psychoses. I've seen patients become completely absorbed in their psychosis a particular chap jumps to mind when I was in medium secure. Poor fellow had access to legal highs whilst in jail. He was one of the most tormented and psychotic people ive nursed. He was a very dangerous person to be around and measures were needed to ensure safety of himself and the other service users. So yeah I am saying that in my experience both legal high and cannabas use can result in people loosing touch with relality (psychotic)? In response to your second point the ease of access to them and a generations desire not to abstain despite the risks has resulted in rehospitalisation in numerous cases ive been involved with. With every instance of a drug induced paychosis (have a gander at the nice guidelines) the person suffering has an increased risk of not fully recovering thus the enduring mental illness. I think as a societal group we lack involving carers, ive seen families torn apart which could possibly have been avoided if services involved supported carers as well as the service user.

 

what you were suggesting was that they were equal in both severity and number of cases. Whilst you can from experience recount patients who have, I am suggesting that neither cannabis and legal highs in isolation are anywhere near the number of those who suffer some alcoholic psychosis for example.

 

I think we're in agreement that the lack of spending, investment, and improvement in MH services is appalling in the NHS, and for me MH education should start in early education. Prevention is less expensive than the cure. But then the Daily Mail would be up in arms about brainwashing hippy bollox to our kids etc.

[casablancas]

what you were suggesting was that they were equal in both severity and number of cases. Whilst you can from experience recount patients who have, I am suggesting that neither cannabis and legal highs in isolation are anywhere near the number of those who suffer some alcoholic psychosis for example.

I think we're in agreement that the lack of spending, investment, and improvement in MH services is appalling in the NHS, and for me MH education should start in early education. Prevention is less expensive than the cure. But then the Daily Mail would be up in arms about brainwashing hippy bollox to our kids etc.

I have in my whole career admittedly only 12 odd years ive only ever nursed 3 peeps whom have suffered psychosis from alcohol. I've nursed plenty of patients who have had to have a controlled detox to prevent seizure, with drawer and delirium toxicity which is what I'm assunjng you're reffering to with regards to 'alcohol psychosis' which is a term ive never actually come across. However alcohol is not my speciality. In my experience in the last 5-6 years the prevailance of people admitted with a drug induced paychosis for me has increase at a phenomenal rate. Unfortunately with regards to prevention we can only hope something is done about by the government.

[sphericalfox]

I have in my whole career admittedly only 12 odd years ive only ever nursed 3 peeps whom have suffered psychosis from alcohol. I've nursed plenty of patients who have had to have a controlled detox to prevent seizure, with drawer and delirium toxicity which is what I'm assunjng you're reffering to with regards to 'alcohol psychosis' which is a term ive never actually come across. However alcohol is not my speciality. In my experience in the last 5-6 years the prevailance of people admitted with a drug induced paychosis for me has increase at a phenomenal rate. Unfortunately with regards to prevention we can only hope something is done about by the government.

 

Chronic alcoholism generally results in bouts of psychosis. If you are can show me in statistics that in isolation that cannabis led psychosis exceeds the number of chronic alcoholic led in this country, then I'll stand corrected. There is an increase of synthetic drug related deaths and hospitalisation, but are these due to abuse or isolated case where someone who is susceptible to mental health issues, or perhaps has a diagnosed/undiagnosed issue triggers an episode due to taking said substance in combination with alcohol in quantity?

 

Addressing government intervention, we won't see any changes with this party, as I've said there are too many interests, and conflicts of interests in the drug industry, and an NHS which has perhaps not been led to believe that a health mind leads to a healthy body, and not the other way round. It could be argued that depression, anxiety, and other mental conditions have a great affect on physical illnesses, including leading to chronic illnesses that might be have been prevented.

 

Going back to the thread o/p, I think looking at MH with an open mind, and considering alternatives is progress. I've never heard of mushroom addiction, maybe it exists. I do know of individuals who will most definitely reliant on standard depression meds for the rest of their lives, and still have episodes, that require their meds to be topped up.

 

As I pointed out it's not as though the GP is prescribing a bag of shrooms and saying see you later, the study was of extremes. It would be as any other drug, delivered in a quantity that was appropriate.

 

It'll be interesting to see where the future of MH and it's provision develops in the next 5-10 years. It doesn't have to be a revolution, just evolution, and the old guard moving on, so those who work damn hard to make a difference can see a tangible change in both behaviours of those calling the shots, and MH is prepared both financially and resource-wise to make the needed difference in a system that's backward in its thinking.

[VLC86]

Yes, several times. If you're planning on doing them, do them with close friends in a comfortable atmosphere in a safe place. Make sure you're feeling happy and lifted on the day - don't bother if you're having a bad day or in a bad mood. Mushrooms will amplify your current mood, so it's best to be in a good place mentally. Sometimes it's good to have someone around or nearby that isn't doing them at the same time - a sitter, if you will - to look after you if you end up having a bit of bad trip. Make sure you put plenty of time aside - I'd recommend doing them if you know you've got a good 10 hours free. I think my longest trip was probably around 8 hours.

I always made tea when we used to do them - it's much nicer than trying to eat them and it finds it's way into your system better through liquid. Google online about the best way to do it but it's basically letting them sit in boiling water for an hour and then drinking it. Kick back, put on some of your favourite tunes or watch your favourite cartoons. how long it'll take you to come up depends on what type they are and how quickly your system takes them in. I'd always recommend eating a GOOD meal a few hours before you take them - something to line your stomach and you won't want to eat during the trip (normally).

Any time between 30 - 90 minutes and you should start feeling the effects - generally you'll get the giggles (like smoking weed for the first time x10) and then everything starts to breathe - the world literally breathes with you. It's quite awesome and beautiful tbh. Fill your time with fun things - share your thoughts with friends or keep quiet and enjoy the simple things around you. My favourite spot was always the bathroom funnily enough - I used to love the way the tiles moved and looking in the mirror was always a fun experience - seeing your face as you've never seen it before.

Everyone's experience will differ depending on dosage, but start small and build up / re-dose as you see fit. Treat Mushrooms with respect and they will do it in return. The several times I've done them I've always felt refreshed afterwards, 'reborn' is a cheesy way to put it but the next day the sky will seem a little bluer and the grass a little greener. A nice feeling and a great way to reflect and put things into perspective.

Hope that helps.

Tried them a few times and more often than not they completely ****ed me up but then sitting in my living room with half people tripping and half not with the curtains closed probably wasn't the best idea .

I remember watching 51 state (I think) and the bit where SLJ gets pulled over while smoking a joint actually went backwards . Other than that I tried to eat a frozen pizza and generally didn't enjoy myself

[Manwell Pablo]

Mushrooms/LSD would be slightly different imo, they're not drugs that you rely on a high for. Like I said above, they can change outlooks, thought processes and perspective from a one off use. There's potential uses there.

Also have extremely low addiction risk. So not the same as drinking or other drugs.

Edit: sorry just read on and see the addiction argument has started.

Magic mushrooms are less addictive than caffeine

[Haydos]

Also have extremely low addiction risk. So not the same as drinking or other drugs.

Edit: sorry just read on and see the addiction argument has started.

Magic mushrooms are less addictive than caffeine

 

Exactly, I've tried LSD a couple of times and it's very cool. I've had no lasting effects in terms of addiction.

 

One time I felt the warmest happiness I can ever remember, it was a sunny afternoon in the park with some friends and it just felt like the sun was hugging me, everything felt so perfect.

 

The other time I went for a walk with my mate at about 2am. It was winter, a little bit frosty and it had been raining. We walked up to the woods where we take the dog and I saw some of the most amazing visuals. Trees came to life, they looked like they were breathing and the roof of the path we were walking on crystalised as we walked along like this amazing crystal roof. I could hear every raindrop, everything else was silent and misty, it was incredible, just that most pure, peaceful feeling.

 

I'm not desperate to do it again but I'm looking forward to next time. Done responsibly some of these drugs can lead to awesome experiences.

[Samilktray]

There should be a recreational drug thread, some of these trippy stories sound tremendous.

[lifted*fox]

I've been to places and seen things that only drugs could've made happen - they've enriched my life in many ways and helped me to grow and expand as a person and for that I'm truly grateful.

 

Lots of drugs get a bad rep but they really can do some quite amazing things if used responsibly (and recklessly as well sometimes ).

 

I've always wanted to try heroin but even I can't trust myself with that one - If it's as beautiful as they say it is then it could quite possibly be the one where I just wouldn't be able to help myself. The responsible person in me knows to just leave it alone. 

 

I'm done with all that shit now anyway tbh. 

[Vacamion]

For those who are new in here, there are ninety-twelve pages of discussion on legalisation, addiction, harm and the "gateway" fallacy in the "legalise cannabis" thread...

Go nuts.

[lifted*fox]

I'm sure that thread will just make me angry tbh so I'll give it a miss.