Labour MP shot

[The Railway Man]

Was going to say that same thing.

 

Dunno why people bring mental illness up as soon as someone is killed. The guy was a member of a political group, he was probably radicalised.

 

When IS kill people they are correctly branded terrorists, and this guy is exactly the same.

 

Have I missed something? We now have evidence he was a member of Britain First?

[Fox92]

Have I missed something? We now have evidence he was a member of Britain First?

 

Three or four separate witnesses claimed he shouted it. 

 

He was also in other far right groups.

[The Railway Man]

Three or four separate witnesses claimed he shouted it. 

 

He was also in other far right groups.

 

Well is it three or four? The main eye witness who the press say tackled the gunman says no-one shouted anything about Britain First.

 

What other far right groups was he in?

[Fox92]

Well is it three or four? The main eye witness who the press say tackled the gunman says no-one shouted anything about Britain First.

 

What other far right groups was he in?

 

I dunno I wasn't there, I'm just going on what I've read. And there's an independent article (I think) about another group. 

edit: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/jo-cox-dead-thomas-mair-suspect-south-africa-apartheid-a7086426.html

[The Railway Man]

I dunno I wasn't there, I'm just going on what I've read. And there's an independent article (I think) about another group.

 

Most newspaper articles today seem to be saying the guy was a bit of a loner and totally apolitical, the Indy article has been posted in the EU thread and it's a very loose link to a minor right wing South African group from ten years ago.

[Fox92]

Most newspaper articles today seem to be saying the guy was a bit of a loner and totally apolitical, the Indy article has been posted in the EU thread and it's a very loose link to a minor right wing South African group from ten years ago.

 

I would imagine most people who murder like this are "loners". But if he shouted IS or something along those lines, he'd be called a "terrorist" and that was my point. 

[leicsmac]

I would imagine most people who murder like this are "loners". But if he shouted IS or something along those lines, he'd be called a "terrorist" and that was my point. 

 

This.

[DB11]

Why has everyone who kills someone else nowadays got to have "mental problems".

 

This guy is just scum; a psycho. That's it. Lock him away forever.

 

You're saying the same thing yourself?

[Fox92]

You're saying the same thing yourself?

 

Only because I didn't know what other word to use.

[Jimothy]

Just confirmed the Tories won't contest the by election. 

[The Railway Man]

I would imagine most people who murder like this are "loners". But if he shouted IS or something along those lines, he'd be called a "terrorist" and that was my point. 

 

But if it's confirmed he has shoutd something like that and it was politically motivated everyone is in agreement that he is a terrorist, no one has said anything to the contrary so what's the point you are making?

[leicsmac]

But if it's confirmed he has shoutd something like that and it was politically motivated everyone is in agreement that he is a terrorist, no one has said anything to the contrary so what's the point you are making?

 

The difference lies in the amount of proof people feel they need before they say that some-and-such is behind a terrible act and can be labelled a terrorist. It varies, and it shouldn't.

[The Railway Man]

The difference lies in the amount of proof people feel they need before they say that some-and-such is behind a terrible act and can be labelled a terrorist. It varies, and it shouldn't.

 

Yet as soon as it's in reverse the same people who claim what the others do is so wrong do exactly the same, take a look at the first page here, one eye witness yet numerous people jumping in to immediately try and connect it to something political (yourself included), if it's wrong why do the same?

 

Some idiot in the EU thread is even trying to blame the Brexit campaign for the death.

[The Railway Man]

Good. This guy was clearly a nutter, and it is right that the action of a single or few nutjobs shouldn't be a reflection on a bigger group. Right?

 

Just bringing this up as I was going through the first page.

 

I'd actually say if this is Britain First it's totally representative of them, they seem to be a violent facist group who would have no problem resorting to violence to get what they want.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

The difference lies in the amount of proof people feel they need before they say that some-and-such is behind a terrible act and can be labelled a terrorist. It varies, and it shouldn't.

Such as a certain plane crash... which we will soon learn more about.

Edit: to be fair the French authorities started that!

[leicsmac]

Yet as soon as it's in reverse the same people who claim what the others do is so wrong do exactly the same, take a look at the first page here, one eye witness yet numerous people jumping in to immediately try and connect it to something political (yourself included), if it's wrong why do the same?

 

Some idiot in the EU thread is even trying to blame the Brexit campaign for the death.

 

 

Just bringing this up as I was going through the first page.

 

I'd actually say if this is Britain First it's totally representative of them, they seem to be a violent facist group who would have no problem resorting to violence to get what they want.

 

I was extremely careful to leave ambiguity (and took great pains to insist what the guy said was alleged) in my post at the start of this thread, given that the facts were (and still are) not known. Other people do not qualify their statements in the same way. That's a pretty critical difference IMO - saying that something is a possibility and saying that something is a cast-iron certainty.

 

Regarding BF and your second post, I actually think the opposite, as said in my post that you quoted. I'm much more a believer in personal responsibility in events like this and so I need a pretty heavy burden of proof to convince me to connect the actions of a nutjob (or a small group of nutjobs) to a bigger ideology. But that's just me.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Even if we disregard the potential links for a moment, something all of us can learn, which is of paramount importance in terms of a forum, is how powerful and important words can be and how unintended consequences can come about if we do not chose them carefully.

Something we should all seek to do is use words that provide clear clarity, so what we say so it is understood by all - for misunderstanding is a source of many ills. But we must also consider the differing impact of positive and negative words, for as much as positivity can bread positivity, negativity can also bread negativity.

If we could all make a distinct point in our minds to ensure our lips uttered more positives than negatives - I imagine ourselves and the nation as a whole would be all the better for it.

[leicsmac]

Even if we disregard the potential links for a moment, something all of us can learn, which is of paramount importance in terms of a forum, is how powerful and important words can be and how unintended consequences can come about if we do not chose them carefully.

Something we should all seek to do is use words that provide clear clarity, so what we say so it is understood by all - for misunderstanding is a source of many ills. But we must also consider the differing impact of positive and negative words, for as much as positivity can bread positivity, negativity can also bread negativity.

If we could all make a distinct point in our minds to ensure our lips uttered more positives than negatives - I imagine ourselves and the nation as a whole would be all the better for it.

 

Precisely. "Sticks and stones may..." is one of the biggest fallacies committed to language.

[MPH]

Just bringing this up as I was going through the first page.

 

I'd actually say if this is Britain First it's totally representative of them, they seem to be a violent facist group who would have no problem resorting to violence to get what they want.

 You contradict yourself, here.. If its totally representative then surely this would be backed up by all the other politicians they have shot and killed? and then you say they 'seem' to be violent.

 

 

 

I'm sorry but there is nothing to qualify the first part of your statement/ You'd need to rip off my left gonad and pour salt in the wound to get me to vote for Britain first or support them, but you have no place making statements like that.

[Strokes]

Even if we disregard the potential links for a moment, something all of us can learn, which is of paramount importance in terms of a forum, is how powerful and important words can be and how unintended consequences can come about if we do not chose them carefully.

Something we should all seek to do is use words that provide clear clarity, so what we say so it is understood by all - for misunderstanding is a source of many ills. But we must also consider the differing impact of positive and negative words, for as much as positivity can bread positivity, negativity can also bread negativity.

If we could all make a distinct point in our minds to ensure our lips uttered more positives than negatives - I imagine ourselves and the nation as a whole would be all the better for it.

That sounds a bit gay to me

[DJ Barry Hammond]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/17/jo-cox-suspect-thomas-mair-bought-gun-manuals-from-us-neo-nazis-group-claims

Hmmmm - story is getting worse. There is also some pretty sick tweets from North East National Action that police are investigating.

[Thracian]

Three separate sources have stated the terrorist shouted 'Britain First' before the attack apparently.

 

 

 

 

I've already referred to a Sky News source showing that the arrested suspect had clearly suffered and required considerable help for mental problems - help that would clearly seem to have been insufficient and becomes another statistic among many.

 

Indeed society seems to opt out too often when it comes to tackling mental illness effectively.

 

Times, when some unbalanced act occurs, the authorities have been aware of potential problems for years but often, for various reasons, have not been able, or not known how to, deal with the matter successfully.

[Guest Bilo]

'Mentally ill' and 'terrorist' are not mutually exclusive.

One of Lee Rigby's killers had had mental health issues before the attack, and is described now as borderline schizophrenic, nut nobody has any reluctance in calling them terrorists because that's precisely what they are.

[Thracian]

Just confirmed the Tories won't contest the by election. 

 

 

Good

[Fox92]

'Mentally ill' and 'terrorist' are not mutually exclusive.

One of Lee Rigby's killers had had mental health issues before the attack, and is described now as borderline schizophrenic, nut nobody has any reluctance in calling them terrorists because that's precisely what they are.

 

Just to clear up what I meant, considering I think I was the one that mentioned the word terrorist, what I meant is people are so quick to say "mental issues" these days but for me he's just a terrorist. I know both are different and not at all connected but as I said if an IS member did this then people would call him a terrorist, but this is a 50 year old male so he's just a "loner" with "mental issues".