Labour MP shot

[Jimothy]

Good

Since been confirmed that a few other parties won't too. Only just caught it on the radio so not 100% sure which ones, only that UKIP is one.

[Guest Bilo]

Just to clear up what I meant, considering I think I was the one that mentioned the word terrorist, what I meant is people are so quick to say "mental issues" these days but for me he's just a terrorist. I know both are different and not at all connected but as I said if an IS member did this then people would call him a terrorist, but this is a 50 year old male so he's just a "loner" with "mental issues".

 

Exactly right.

It's a rather disturbing inconsistency within our media that a Muslim terrorist is just that, but they scrabble around for any reason they can find to avoid labelling a far-right terrorist the same. Blaming this attack on Mair's mental health issues rather than being radicalised by far-right politics serves two purposes - it demonises those with mental health issues as a ticking time bomb and exonerates the likes of Britain First of all responsibility.

Tommy Mair is no less a terrorist than the two cvnts who beheaded Lee Rigby.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Exactly right.

It's a rather disturbing inconsistency within our media that a Muslim terrorist is just that, but they scrabble around for any reason they can find to avoid labelling a far-right terrorist the same. Blaming this attack on Mair's mental health issues rather than being radicalised by far-right politics serves two purposes - it demonises those with mental health issues as a ticking time bomb and exonerates the likes of Britain First of all responsibility.

Tommy Mair is no less a terrorist than the two cvnts who beheaded Lee Rigby.

Let's be clear, the police have not charged this man yet - and I expect a big reason for that is that they need to make a critical decision on what they charge him with (murder / terrorism / something else).

Until that decision has been made, it would be wrong for any media source to claim this as a terrorist act - the media are there to report, not to define.

You may wish to draw parallels with other incidents, but until that definition is given by an authority figure, it can't be described as that.

[Guest Bilo]

Since been confirmed that a few other parties won't too. Only just caught it on the radio so not 100% sure which ones, only that UKIP is one.

 

I can imagine it'll be uncontested. Unless Britain First are brave/stupid enough to put in a representative, you wouldn't put it past them.

[Rincewind]

Terrorist is a 'newish' word. You could say it was a 'terrorist-like' act committed by an unstable person. What qualifies as a terrorist attack and how is it different to a random attack on a prominent figure?

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Terrorist is a 'newish' word. You could say it was a 'terrorist-like' act committed by an unstable person. What qualifies as a terrorist attack and how is it different to a random attack on a prominent figure?

I believe a terrorist act is defined by overriding motives of a political nature and there are strong indications in the public domain this could be the case here - unlike, say the murder of Jill Dando which would be an example of your later description.

[Alf Bentley]

from the sounds of it, it doesn't sound that organised.

 

Questions will be asked why he was carrying a gun and a knife around. He must have had some intent to cause harm to someone. Apparently Cox interrupted an argument between the killer and another man, then he brought out a gun, shot her once. Leaned over her and shot her in the face and got a knife out then stabbed her numerous times. Perhaps she wasn't the intended victim, which to me makes it even more unfortunate that she was just trying to stop an argument and ended up dying

 

Police update on the ongoing investigation: http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/police-update-on-tragic-events-in-birstall-1-7970773

 

“We have now confirmed that just before 1pm yesterday Jo arrived in a vehicle in company with two colleagues outside the library on Market Street, and whilst en-route to the library where she had a scheduled constituency meeting, she was attacked and sustained serious injuries from both a firearm and a knife, and despite assistance from passers-by, the ambulance service and police officers who were quickly on the scene, she sadly died of her injuries.

“During the course of the incident a 77-year-old man bravely intervened to assist Jo and in doing so sustained a serious injury to his abdomen, and although now stable he remains in hospital.

“Based on information available at this time, this appears to be an isolated, but targeted attack upon Jo"

 

So, it does seem to have been a planned, targeted attack. The other bloke injured just intervened trying to help her, it seems.

 

It also sounds as if the presumed killer acted alone (to be confirmed). Police investigating both suggestions of mental health issues and of far right links (investigation ongoing, no conclusions yet).

[DJ Barry Hammond]

@@Alf Bentley

I've seen a tweet by Michael Crick that suggests Mair is being charged under anti-terroism legislation and will be transferred to London.

[StanSP]

Police update on the ongoing investigation: http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/police-update-on-tragic-events-in-birstall-1-7970773

 

“We have now confirmed that just before 1pm yesterday Jo arrived in a vehicle in company with two colleagues outside the library on Market Street, and whilst en-route to the library where she had a scheduled constituency meeting, she was attacked and sustained serious injuries from both a firearm and a knife, and despite assistance from passers-by, the ambulance service and police officers who were quickly on the scene, she sadly died of her injuries.

“During the course of the incident a 77-year-old man bravely intervened to assist Jo and in doing so sustained a serious injury to his abdomen, and although now stable he remains in hospital.

“Based on information available at this time, this appears to be an isolated, but targeted attack upon Jo"

 

So, it does seem to have been a planned, targeted attack. The other bloke injured just intervened trying to help her, it seems.

 

It also sounds as if the presumed killer acted alone (to be confirmed). Police investigating both suggestions of mental health issues and of far right links (investigation ongoing, no conclusions yet).

 

shit . 

[Thracian]

Even if we disregard the potential links for a moment, something all of us can learn, which is of paramount importance in terms of a forum, is how powerful and important words can be and how unintended consequences can come about if we do not chose them carefully.

Something we should all seek to do is use words that provide clear clarity, so what we say so it is understood by all - for misunderstanding is a source of many ills. But we must also consider the differing impact of positive and negative words, for as much as positivity can bread positivity, negativity can also bread negativity.

If we could all make a distinct point in our minds to ensure our lips uttered more positives than negatives - I imagine ourselves and the nation as a whole would be all the better for it.

 

 

 

Yet this tragedy illustrates - as it does so often - that one person's "positive" can be another person's negative, have permanently negative consequences for both but positive outcomes in time. Strange how the world works by feeding on its own failings.

 

I can only wonder if we're even meant to live in harmony.

 

Because that requires listening ears and untroubled minds yet it's hard to find either in any argument. 

[Thracian]

@@Alf Bentley

I've seen a tweet by Michael Crick that suggests Mair is being charged under anti-terroism legislation and will be transferred to London.

 

 

 

I can only imagine he'll plead insanity. 

[Thracian]

Exactly right.

It's a rather disturbing inconsistency within our media that a Muslim terrorist is just that, but they scrabble around for any reason they can find to avoid labelling a far-right terrorist the same. Blaming this attack on Mair's mental health issues rather than being radicalised by far-right politics serves two purposes - it demonises those with mental health issues as a ticking time bomb and exonerates the likes of Britain First of all responsibility.

Tommy Mair is no less a terrorist than the two cvnts who beheaded Lee Rigby.

 

 

If an IS member did this I'd definitely question his sanity. In Mair's case his sanity has long been an issue according to reports. As with so many people who act in such an unbalanced way there is nearly always previous indications of that unbalance. The problem is in how to deal with it. 

[DJ Barry Hammond]

So I think that event just took away any doubt of the motives behind this.

[StanSP]

[Fox92]

"Death to traitors, freedom for Britain" what a ****.

 

Also hats off to the 77 year old that tried to get him off. Heroic. 

[Wymsey]

What will time in prison do to 'wind him' down, it probably won't. The man needs shooting, sorry.

[leicsmac]

Yeah. That removes most of the ambiguity here, I would say.

[Jimothy]

What will time in prison do to 'wind him' down, it probably won't. The man needs shooting, sorry.

He's not going to prison to 'wind down'! It's not a cooling off period. He's a terrorist, a murder. He's going to prison as punishment.

The death penalty is a different discussion in itself and I wouldn't want to derail the thread, but we don't have it here so we send people to prison to punish them, and rehabilitate them if we plan to release them back into society, not to calm down a bit.

[Guest Bilo]

Surely nobody can deny this is an act of terrorism now?

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2016/jun/17/martin-rowson-on-the-killing-of-jo-cox-cartoon?CMP=share_btn_tw

[SystonFox]

Why do Britain first always use fusilier Lee Rigby in their campaigns?

[Thracian]

What will time in prison do to 'wind him' down, it probably won't. The man needs shooting, sorry.

 

 

The man is ill. If he had a broken leg or a stroke you'd never doubt he needed medical help. It's exactly the same with the mentally ill but so much harder to either define,  to treat or to decide how best to keep him safe from himself and/or from those he might harm.

 

I'm not a clinician. I don't know how the killer of the MP would be compared to a terrorist by a medical specialist in terms of their mental condition.

 

But my guess is that they'd both have a screw or lots loose, whether their condition  was triggered, emphasised or exaggerated by drugs/alcohol or any other excuse.

 

Their inbalance will have almost certainly been apparent previously and perhaps for a good part of even most of their life. Unfortunately - and perhaps in part due to the Human Rights legislation - we don't seem to act firmly enough, quickly enough.

 

We're zealous enough when it comes to non-human preventive health and safety but where human beings are concerned we're only too ready to listen to reasons/excuses/mitigation which.may well leave the public in harm's way until it's too late.          

[Jimothy]

Why do Britain first always use fusilier Lee Rigby in their campaigns?

I'm guessing because he was killed by two black immigrants, and he was in the armed forces. Someone serving their country being brutally murdered by two black foreigners is like the jackpot for people like Britain First. They can highlight that over and over as though this is what immigration causes.

[Jimothy]

The man is ill. If he had a broken leg or a stroke you'd never doubt he needed medical help. It's exactly the same with the mentally ill but so much harder to either define,  to treat or to decide how best to keep him safe from himself and/or from those he might harm.

 

I'm not a clinician. I don't know how the killer of the MP would be compared to a terrorist by a medical specialist in terms of their mental condition.

 

But my guess is that they'd both have a screw or lots loose, whether their condition  was triggered, emphasised or exaggerated by drugs/alcohol or any other excuse.

 

Their inbalance will have almost certainly been apparent previously and perhaps for a good part of even most of their life. Unfortunately - and perhaps in part due to the Human Rights legislation - we don't seem to act firmly enough, quickly enough.

 

We're zealous enough when it comes to non-human preventive health and safety but where human beings are concerned we're only too ready to listen to reasons/excuses/mitigation which.may well leave the public in harm's way until it's too late.

The man is hate filled terrorist, stop trying to make excuses for him.

Over the last few days we've heard how he had a broken relationship with his mum and lived alone, as though that was enough to label him mentally ill. I had a broken relationship with my late father and I live alone, but I'm not going out shooting mps who are supporting leaving the EU.

He might not be right in the head, but let's be honest, anyone who thinks that it's right to pick up a firearm and kill one or a thousand people isn't right in the head. At the end of the day he had a belief, and fueled by hate of someone who disagreed with him decided he needed to kill someone to further his cause.

[leicsmac]

The man is hate filled terrorist, stop trying to make excuses for him.

Over the last few days we've heard how he had a broken relationship with his mum and lived alone, as though that was enough to label him mentally ill. I had a broken relationship with my late father and I live alone, but I'm not going out shooting mps who are supporting leaving the EU.

He might not be right in the head, but let's be honest, anyone who thinks that it's right to pick up a firearm and kill one or a thousand people isn't right in the head. At the end of the day he had a belief, and fueled by hate of someone who disagreed with him decided he needed to kill someone to further his cause.

 

It's the double standard as mentioned earlier in the thread, FC. The one that people try to deny exists.

[bovril]

Why do Britain first always use fusilier Lee Rigby in their campaigns?

 

Because they are shameless cvnts followed by thick cvnts?