Labour MP shot

[Jimothy]

I think you are giving the 'mental health issues' in this case too much weight in your argument here - when there are indications that rational planning was very much part of this and there is a full awareness of the acts he has carried out.

Truth is we only have very little detail of the mental health issues - far too little to label them as a huge contributing factor, even if we'd all agree it requires a degree of 'craziness' to do any of the acts that have been discussed.

Thank you, you've explained it perfectly. I found it difficult to produce a reply without getting angry at Thracian's arrogance and alleging I was doing exactly what he was doing to me, so thank you replying in a way I couldn't, (not that you were replying on my behalf).

[Thracian]

Mentally ill? The only thing I've read is that he had OCD.

 

Nazi ****.

 

This seems to sum up thoughts on the subject. I'm glad it mentions waiting to hear the evidence before jumping to conclusions or pronouncing judgements. 

 

 

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Terrorism

 

As for Mateen, just because the media described him as a terrorist doesn't mean that he wasn't seriously unbalanced and my whole point is that so many people who commit horrendous crimes are well known to have pronounced mental problems which too-often remain unchecked. 

 

I've referred to this at least twice in recent weeks on here and well before either of the incidents mentioned here. I've also mentioned it in passing on other occasions. Mental illness is so easily dismissed yet remains a massive problem.

 

It may surprise people that mental health is "the largest single source of burden of disease in the UK"  and costs the country a massive "£105 billion a year".  It can't and shouldn't be overlooked. We need to be far better at preventing the sort of tragedies we're discussing here. Punishments and emotive definitions are all very well but they don't bring the victims back to life. 

 

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/PDF/Position%20Statement%204%20website.pdf

[DJ Barry Hammond]

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Fitness+to+plead

[m4DD0gg]

hang him

[Itsthejoeker]

This seems to sum up thoughts on the subject. I'm glad it mentions waiting to hear the evidence before jumping to conclusions or pronouncing judgements. 

 

 

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Terrorism

 

As for Mateen, just because the media described him as a terrorist doesn't mean that he wasn't seriously unbalanced and my whole point is that so many people who commit horrendous crimes are well known to have pronounced mental problems which too-often remain unchecked. 

 

I've referred to this at least twice in recent weeks on here and well before either of the incidents mentioned here. I've also mentioned it in passing on other occasions. Mental illness is so easily dismissed yet remains a massive problem.

 

It may surprise people that mental health is "the largest single source of burden of disease in the UK"  and costs the country a massive "£105 billion a year".  It can't and shouldn't be overlooked. We need to be far better at preventing the sort of tragedies we're discussing here. Punishments and emotive definitions are all very well but they don't bring the victims back to life. 

 

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/PDF/Position%20Statement%204%20website.pdf

 

 

Thrice I don't particularly give a damn to be honest.

 

I've seen all the evidence I need to make a judgement about this mans character, he shot and stabbed a mother of two, stabbed a 78 year old man whilst proceeding to shout extreme right-wing bullshit and say what he did in the courtroom this morning.

[Izzy]

hang him

 

Would save the tax payer a few quid if we did. In circumstances where the accused admits murder and shows no remorse, I'm struggling to find a reason why not...

[bovril]

Would save the tax payer a few quid if we did. In circumstances where the accused admits murder and shows no remorse, I'm struggling to find a reason why not...

 

Because the state should not be able to kill people.

[Izzy]

Because the state should not be able to kill people.

 

Yet the state is prepared to spend £40,000 every year of yours and my money to imprison an animal who is guilty as sin. I'd rather this money was spent on schools and hospitals personally....

[bovril]

Yet the state is prepared to spend £40,000 every year of yours and my money to imprison an animal who is guilty as sin. I'd rather this money was spent on schools and hospitals personally....

 

Me too. But it's not about money. I just don't believe the state should have that ability.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Me too. But it's not about money. I just don't believe the state should have that ability.

Your point has just made me realise the significance of the US justice system siting cases as 'The people vs'

[Izzy]

Me too. But it's not about money. I just don't believe the state should have that ability.

 

Fair enough. If we can't agree about Paul Scholes, we're probably not going to agree on capital punishment   

[bovril]

Fair enough. If we can't agree about Paul Scholes, we're probably not going to agree on capital punishment   

 

Paul Scholes... capital punishment... I think you're onto something here.

[Guest]

Serious question.

 

Was Jo Cox really this incredible MP I'm hearing about in the news?

[Strokes]

Serious question.

 

Was Jo Cox really this incredible MP I'm hearing about in the news?

I've no idea, I don't think I had even heard of her until this tragedy happened.

[Thracian]

Me too. But it's not about money. I just don't believe the state should have that ability.

 

 

 

hang him

 

 

Should that be extended to those whose judgement may have allowed such wackos to roam the streets, despite well knowing the risks! . 

 

Because, surely, sane experts might be expected to show more responsibility than anyone with a knowingly unbalanced personality.

 

And what about parents or family members who fail to alert the authorities to their concerns about the mental health of their offspring, especially when there are issues of violence, cruelty or even sadism?

 

Should they be hanged as responsible accessories?

 

I can see the economic, convenience, permanence and punishment benefits. I'm just not sure where the line should be drawn. Or where it might be drawn in the wrong hands. Nor do I quite understand how the execution of anyone applies to our supposedly still Christian country.

 

Doesn't the Bible say "Thou Shalt Not Kill" as a Commandment rather than a suggestion?.

 

I don't see any ambiguity in that for all that the Commandment's been broken countless times when deemed justified.

 

And given the obscene death toll in the Iraq war, for instance, what would you do with the instigators who, as leading politicians, might not even have the lame excuse of being even momentarily unbalanced? Policy meetings seem pretty considered and cold blooded to me. 

 

Imagine that contrived war hadn't happened and all that money had been spent on  "schools and hospitals" Izzy could have been proud of. "Education, education, education" would have been set to music and replaced the national anthem.  

[Alf Bentley]

Serious question.

 

Was Jo Cox really this incredible MP I'm hearing about in the news?

 

 

I'd not heard of her before, but that's unsurprising as she'd only been a backbench MP for a year and I'm not from Yorkshire.

 

Anyone who suffers a tragic death gets talked up like a secular saint. Anyone who dies is always "popular", "respected" etc.

 

However, the comments from colleagues and constituents did seem very genuine, not just politeness.

You CAN tell the difference, I think. She seems to have been a very nice person and a devoted MP and humanitarian, even if she wasn't a secular saint.

[purpleronnie]

[Trav Le Bleu]

Because the state should not be able to kill people.

The state does frequently. It's called war.

[Rincewind]

Very good words and I think they applu to most people if we sat down and thought about it.

[Thracian]

Even as the most strident, determined, ambitious and unswervingly committed socialist Jo Cox should have been safe going about her business. I didn't agree with the BBC turning their coverage of her murder into a Labour party political broadcast but I usually have respect for anyone trying to do their best for people in whatever field, and Jo Cox seemed as busily involved as they come.   

 

I have complete contempt for her assailant as i would for anyone attacking a woman for any reason, let alone using a gun and knife to kill her. But, as I've mentioned, we seem to live in a society so awash with wackos these days, it makes me despair.   

 

I also wish the whole controversy about immigration had never come about and that our nation had continued to admit people on a sensibly controlled basis without stirring the anger, bitterness and hatred that has increasingly tainted the atmosphere here and replaced it with an undercurrent of mistrust and discomfort...the same mistrust and discomfort that has brought turmoil, death and destruction to countless other countries and the towns and cities within them.

 

Those responsible won't admit the damage they've caused which is lasting, ongoing and has been fatal to Jo Cox, but they damned well should do.

 

Because the problems won't go away now. There really is so much anger fermenting about the concerted disregard for downgraded British people's rights and wellbeing that I can only see further frustration and increased bitterness.     

 

People carp about improved race relations but there is more hatred and disharmony in Britain now than I've ever known in 67 years.

 

There was no disharmony in the UK worth mentioning til Tony Blair's time...no thought of people being beheaded on the streets or of women being shot and stabbed as some sort of political statement. Doubtless Blair feels proud of himself but I think he should hang his head in shame at all the consequences of what he's done, including the death of Jo Cox.

 

     

 

 

.         

[Thracian]

 

 

 

Fabulous in theory but it doesn't work and never has. Just spend an hour reading about the frictions between nations, tribes, faiths and philosophies across the world and ask yourself is there really any chance of the utopia you so glibly imagine? Cos i don't see a hope in Hell.  You'll do well to manage your own family successfully. Cos there's a lot can't even get that far.      

[Fox92]

Former BNP member is standing for Jo Cox's seat in by-election.

[leicsmac]

Fabulous in theory but it doesn't work and never has. Just spend an hour reading about the frictions between nations, tribes, faiths and philosophies across the world and ask yourself is there really any chance of the utopia you so glibly imagine? Cos i don't see a hope in Hell.  You'll do well to manage your own family successfully. Cos there's a lot can't even get that far.      

 

You keep saying such thinking is naive. I keep saying I sincerely hope not, because if we accept that we also accept eventual inevitable extinction.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Even as the most strident, determined, ambitious and unswervingly committed socialist Jo Cox should have been safe going about her business. I didn't agree with the BBC turning their coverage of her murder into a Labour party political broadcast but I usually have respect for anyone trying to do their best for people in whatever field, and Jo Cox seemed as busily involved as they come.   

 

I have complete contempt for her assailant as i would for anyone attacking a woman for any reason, let alone using a gun and knife to kill her. But, as I've mentioned, we seem to live in a society so awash with wackos these days, it makes me despair.   

 

I also wish the whole controversy about immigration had never come about and that our nation had continued to admit people on a sensibly controlled basis without stirring the anger, bitterness and hatred that has increasingly tainted the atmosphere here and replaced it with an undercurrent of mistrust and discomfort...the same mistrust and discomfort that has brought turmoil, death and destruction to countless other countries and the towns and cities within them.

 

Those responsible won't admit the damage they've caused which is lasting, ongoing and has been fatal to Jo Cox, but they damned well should do.

 

Because the problems won't go away now. There really is so much anger fermenting about the concerted disregard for downgraded British people's rights and wellbeing that I can only see further frustration and increased bitterness.     

 

People carp about improved race relations but there is more hatred and disharmony in Britain now than I've ever known in 67 years.

 

There was no disharmony in the UK worth mentioning til Tony Blair's time...no thought of people being beheaded on the streets or of women being shot and stabbed as some sort of political statement. Doubtless Blair feels proud of himself but I think he should hang his head in shame at all the consequences of what he's done, including the death of Jo Cox.

 

     

 

 

.

So you thought you'd use this thread as your own party political broadcast instead?

[Thracian]

Former BNP member is standing for Jo Cox's seat in by-election.

 

 

Disgraceful - whatever happened to graciousness?