Labour party civil war

[Guest MattP]

Is interesting to see Corbyn using the term "left behind Britain" - the first politician I remember using words like that was Nick Griffin about ten years.

I don't doubt the EU ref might have awoken Labour to the realisation of what's about to happen to them in traditional white working class areas but they won't be able to handle it, the politics of immigration, diversity etc are long gone for Labour now (and the Tories) and they will have to deal with the long term consequences of it.

If a party can get its message right you could have an SNP style insurgency across the northern heartlands, a lot of these people have realised the Labour party treat them with exactly the same contempt in this day and age as the Conservatives have.

[Guest MattP]

Tom Watson calls off talks with unions saying there is no possibility of compromise.

Surely Owen Smith or Angela Eagle now steps up to challenge in next couple of days.

[Strokes]

Tom Watson calls off talks with unions saying there is no possibility of compromise.

Surely Owen Smith or Angela Eagle now steps up to challenge in next couple of days.

This is going to be interesting, surely he cannot hold on and if he does what will be left?

[Guest]

I've found that it's most often the areas with the fewest immigrants who have the greatest immigrant fears.

[Guest MattP]

He might well hold on, it just depends who these 150,000 have signed up to vote for in the last couple of weeks.

If he does then surely we see a split, the gang of 174 can't just hang around to be deselected by their own branches.

[Guest]

He might well hold on, it just depends who these 150,000 have signed up to vote for in the last couple of weeks.

If he does then surely we see a split, the gang of 174 can't just hang around to be deselected by their own branches.

 

One can only hope.

[Guest MattP]

Well it has to happen.

Those 174 can't exactly go around the country saying please vote for us but btw yeah our isn't capable of being Prime Minister can they?

They'll be starting from the position of opposition anyway from those numbers and Corbyns Labour will drop behind the SNP as the fourth party in British politics (fifth behind UKIP in vote share)

[Guest]

Well it has to happen.

Those 174 can't exactly go around the country saying please vote for us but btw yeah our isn't capable of being Prime Minister can they?

They'll be starting from the position of opposition anyway from those numbers and Corbyns Labour will drop behind the SNP as the fourth party in British politics (fifth behind UKIP in vote share)

 

It's part of what is needed in British politics.

[Strokes]

I've found that it's most often the areas with the fewest immigrants who have the greatest immigrant fears.

What?

[Guest]

What?

 

In all of the places I've lived it is the areas where the fewest immigrants live - often rural areas - that are most worried about foreigners and want them out of the country.

 

It's the same here in France as it was in England.

 

The fear is most often dispelled by the actual fact.

[Sharpe's Fox]

What?

That isn't hard to digest information that is well known. The areas with the highest proportion of migrants living there had the highest percentage of remain voters, London, Bristol, Manchester etc and university towns like Cambridge, Oxford and Warwick.

[Strokes]

That isn't hard to digest information that is well known. The areas with the highest proportion of migrants living there had the highest percentage of remain voters, London, Bristol, Manchester etc and university towns like Cambridge, Oxford and Warwick.

Immigrants were voting remain?

Leicester was close, doesn't seem to follow the trend.

[Guest MattP]

That isn't hard to digest information that is well known. The areas with the highest proportion of migrants living there had the highest percentage of remain voters, London, Bristol, Manchester etc and university towns like Cambridge, Oxford and Warwick.

 

I think the term "university town" speaks for itself, generally well off, affluent and therefore likely to vote to stay, nothing really to do with Immigration. (Bristol btw? Is that a heavily populated immigrant area?, I've spent a lot of time there as I always stay there before Cheltenham and barely met someone who wasn't English, althought I didn't step into St Pauls)

 

Brimingham and Leicester were both as good as 50/50, the two Cities that has dealt with most immigration apart from London.

[Guest MattP]

Back on Topic.

 

Angela Eagle will challenge Jeremy Corbyn for the Labour leadership on Monday morning, I have to say I don't fancy her chances, a Boris Johnson haircut, feeble speaker and comes across as very weird, Tom Watson was the man for this job, for a start his mandate as deputy was as big as Corbyn's for leader.

Parliament will also vote on Trident on July 18th, I presume Labour have had the internal debate and sorted their position over the last nine months?

[Dr The Singh]

Back on Topic.

Angela Eagle will challenge Jeremy Corbyn for the Labour leadership on Monday morning, I have to say I don't fancy her chances, a Boris Johnson haircut, feeble speaker and comes across as very weird, Tom Watson was the man for this job, for a start his mandate as deputy was as big as Corbyn's for leader.

Parliament will also vote on Trident on July 18th, I presume Labour have had the internal debate and sorted their position over the last nine months?

I dont fancy her either!

[Alf Bentley]

Immigrants were voting remain?

Leicester was close, doesn't seem to follow the trend.

 

 

The only immigrants able to vote in the referendum were Irish and Commonwealth citizens, and naturalized British citizens, not people from elsewhere in the EU or worldwide.

 

You only need to look at the Leicester voting figures (51%-49% Remain) to see that a significant number from minority ethnic groups voted Leave. I don't know what proportion of white people in Leicester voted Remain (a minority, but a significant minority, I'd guess) but many did, so obviously a significant number of the 49% Leicester Brexiters were not white, given that Leicester is about 50% white (2011 census).

 

That's quite logical, if you remember the University of London research, which showed that EU immigration probably caused some downward pressure on pay for lower-skilled work, particularly affecting previous generations of immigrants.

 

I suspect that the real correlation of Brexit voting is with (1) social deprivation / low living standards / vulnerability (but possibly low immigration); (2) areas with poor integration of immigrants. Struggling, Labour-voting parts of the NE with low levels of immigration are an example of (1). Tory-voting towns like Boston with high, non-integrated immigration are an example of (2). I'm definitely NOT drawing a parallel between Brexit and BNP voters, but back when the BNP was thriving these 2 factors (deprivation & ethnically divided communities) combined in places like Burnley and Oldham ....immigration is mainly a concern for people leading vulnerable lives, but divided, non-integrated communities will make that worse.

 

The vote across the SE was a mirror image of this: the SE outside London, which overwhelmingly votes Tory, only voted 52% Leave. The places in the SE with a higher Leave vote were the poorer parts. Many very white, prosperous, Tory-voting areas with low immigration voted Remain (e.g. Tunbridge Wells).

[Dr The Singh]

The only immigrants able to vote in the referendum were Irish and Commonwealth citizens, and naturalized British citizens, not people from elsewhere in the EU or worldwide.

You only need to look at the Leicester voting figures (51%-49% Remain) to see that a significant number from minority ethnic groups voted Leave. I don't know what proportion of white people in Leicester voted Remain (a minority, but a significant minority, I'd guess) but many did, so obviously a significant number of the 49% Leicester Brexiters were not white, given that Leicester is about 50% white (2011 census).

That's quite logical, if you remember the University of London research, which showed that EU immigration probably caused some downward pressure on pay for lower-skilled work, particularly affecting previous generations of immigrants.

I suspect that the real correlation of Brexit voting is with (1) social deprivation / low living standards / vulnerability (but possibly low immigration); (2) areas with poor integration of immigrants. Struggling, Labour-voting parts of the NE with low levels of immigration are an example of (1). Tory-voting towns like Boston with high, non-integrated immigration are an example of (2). I'm definitely NOT drawing a parallel between Brexit and BNP voters, but back when the BNP was thriving these 2 factors (deprivation & ethnically divided communities) combined in places like Burnley and Oldham ....immigration is mainly a concern for people leading vulnerable lives, but divided, non-integrated communities will make that worse.

The vote across the SE was a mirror image of this: the SE outside London, which overwhelmingly votes Tory, only voted 52% Leave. The places in the SE with a higher Leave vote were the poorer parts. Many very white, prosperous, Tory-voting areas with low immigration voted Remain (e.g. Tunbridge Wells).

I voted out and I'm white, so this colour thing is just a misnomer

[Alf Bentley]

I voted out and I'm white, so this colour thing is just a misnomer

 

 

I thought you voted Monster Raving Loony Party in the referendum?

[Dr The Singh]

I thought you voted Monster Raving Loony Party in the referendum?

Exactly!!! Alf, it was your reasoning on this forum that made me vote that way!!!

[inckley fox]

Immigrants were voting remain?

Leicester was close, doesn't seem to follow the trend.

 

It might also say a lot about who turned out to vote. I wonder how turnout corresponded to ethnicity in some of these places.

[Strokes]

The only immigrants able to vote in the referendum were Irish and Commonwealth citizens, and naturalized British citizens, not people from elsewhere in the EU or worldwide.

 

You only need to look at the Leicester voting figures (51%-49% Remain) to see that a significant number from minority ethnic groups voted Leave. I don't know what proportion of white people in Leicester voted Remain (a minority, but a significant minority, I'd guess) but many did, so obviously a significant number of the 49% Leicester Brexiters were not white, given that Leicester is about 50% white (2011 census).

 

That's quite logical, if you remember the University of London research, which showed that EU immigration probably caused some downward pressure on pay for lower-skilled work, particularly affecting previous generations of immigrants.

 

I suspect that the real correlation of Brexit voting is with (1) social deprivation / low living standards / vulnerability (but possibly low immigration); (2) areas with poor integration of immigrants. Struggling, Labour-voting parts of the NE with low levels of immigration are an example of (1). Tory-voting towns like Boston with high, non-integrated immigration are an example of (2). I'm definitely NOT drawing a parallel between Brexit and BNP voters, but back when the BNP was thriving these 2 factors (deprivation & ethnically divided communities) combined in places like Burnley and Oldham ....immigration is mainly a concern for people leading vulnerable lives, but divided, non-integrated communities will make that worse.

 

The vote across the SE was a mirror image of this: the SE outside London, which overwhelmingly votes Tory, only voted 52% Leave. The places in the SE with a higher Leave vote were the poorer parts. Many very white, prosperous, Tory-voting areas with low immigration voted Remain (e.g. Tunbridge Wells).

It was meant slightly tongue in cheek Alf. Issues that the BNP raised and clung onto the coat tails of, were never really addressed, they defeated the BNP by exposing them to a level people were uncomfortable with. These issues of depravity and inequality are still rampant and so is the resentment. It's the same across the EU in some countries, and it's what is mainly responsible for far right movements. Until it's addressed in a sane manor, I fear for society. People with little to lose can be quite dangerous and the branding will only be effective for so long. Freedom of movement can't go on like it is, it can only work in a United States of Europe.

[Strokes]

It might also say a lot about who turned out to vote. I wonder how turnout corresponded to ethnicity in some of these places.

It would be interesting, I think the turnout was 62% in Leicester iirc.

You can't get figures like that without quite some support for leave from ethnic background, But I'd be amazed if the percentages didn't swing massively on ethnicity.

[Guest MattP]

The Priti Patel "vote leave" night at Devonshire Place was packed with what I assumed to be British Asians of all political persuasion wanting to take part in canvassing, leafleting etc

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the margins between the ethnic groups in places like Leicester was far closer than people think of the pollsters have us believe, since leaving the workforce I don't speak to as many Asians as I did but the handful who I see in the pubs and around the area I live were all voting leave.

[Dr The Singh]

The Priti Patel "vote leave" night at Devonshire Place was packed with what I assumed to be British Asians of all political persuasion wanting to take part in canvassing, leafleting etc

I wouldn't be surprised if the margins between the ethnic groups in places like Leicester was far closer than people think of the pollsters have us believe, since leaving the workforce I don't speak to as many Asians as I did but the handful who I see in the pubs and around the area I live were all voting leave.

These British Asians included Vietnamese, Burmese, Bhutanese, and the 400 odd variants of Asia.....man that's a lot of people

[Strokes]

The Priti Patel "vote leave" night at Devonshire Place was packed with what I assumed to be British Asians of all political persuasion wanting to take part in canvassing, leafleting etc

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the margins between the ethnic groups in places like Leicester was far closer than people think of the pollsters have us believe, since leaving the workforce I don't speak to as many Asians as I did but the handful who I see in the pubs and around the area I live were all voting leave.

It would be interesting to get some figures, It would be great if you are right. I definitely know a couple of Indian fellas that were vocal on leave.